Who watches Al Jazeera? - Page 4

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:22

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Originally posted by Asher

You're the "philosopher", I've never said anything about my ability to argue.

Now philsophers (lovers of knowledge) are insanely bad people

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:22

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Originally posted by Tassadar5000
No. When you live in a country that has never seen its cities burnt to the ground

War of 1812.
Or do you mean in recent memory? How about 9-11...

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or someone shot dead by the government

1960s protests. Happened many times.

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Most Americans dont have this experience. Most americans dont understand death very well. Even after Sep11.

Oh, this is completely laughable.

Dis · March 25, 2003, 02:24

I disagree Asher.

I don't think Americans know what death is.

You've heard stories/movies about being a kid and discovering a dead body. That is a shocking thing, and not many kids have seen one. Death is an alien concept to Americans.

Except car crashes. But even then usually only the emergency workers see the carnage.

9/11 wasn't very graphic except for the people jumping out of the building. And I admit I was shocked at that.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:25

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Originally posted by Asher

War of 1812.
Or do you mean in recent memory? How about 9-11...

The WTC was an entire city?!?! I didnt know that.

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1960s protests. Happened many times.

Over a period of say, 90 years?

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Oh, this is completely laughable.

This comment completly shows your ignorance of the subject.

You dont know death if you see only 1 atrocity commited. Some people after Sep11 know death, but most americans DONT.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:25

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Originally posted by Willem
Truth should be a good enough reason.

Honest question: If pure, hardcore truth is all your after -- what do you think of the 5 year olds watching this?

What do you think of the families of soldiers which see their loved ones dead on TV, their innards spread over a 5 foot area or their brain splayed across the ground.

Do you not care?

What do you think of the people so disgusted by the graphic nature of it they turn apathetic?

What do you think of the people becoming so desensitised to the material that they treat death even more nonchalantly?

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
I disagree Asher.

I don't think Americans know what death is.

You've heard stories/movies about being a kid and discovering a dead body. That is a shocking thing, and not many kids have seen one. Death is an alien concept to Americans.

Except car crashes. But even then usually only the emergency workers see the carnage.

9/11 wasn't very graphic except for the people jumping out of the building. And I admit I was shocked at that.

Are you AGREEING WITH ME?!

monkspider · March 25, 2003, 02:27

I think Tass is spot-on regarding America's knowledge of death.

Dis · March 25, 2003, 02:27

you guys are missing the obvious point

CNN is a business. They are in it for the ratings.

They only show what the consumers want!

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

Honest question: If pure, hardcore truth is all your after -- what do you think of the 5 year olds watching this?

What do you think of the families of soldiers which see their loved ones dead on TV, their innards spread over a 5 foot area or their brain splayed across the ground.

Do you not care?

What do you think of the people so disgusted by the graphic nature of it they turn apathetic?

What do you think of the people becoming so desensitised to the material that they treat death even more nonchalantly?

I care. I care completly. Thats why I want a warning.

Do you want people to say "Well, only 10 people died there. Not very many"?

Do you want people so desensitised to war that they unleash it on others without a single thought? Because if you haven't seen it, you dont know what its like. Therefore you can't make an informed decision.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:28

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Originally posted by Tassadar5000
The WTC was an entire city?!?! I didnt know that.

The WTC had more people working in it than people who lived in Umm Qasr...

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Over a period of say, 90 years?

Irrelevant...

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This comment completly shows your ignorance of the subject.

No, it shows my laziness into arguing about stupid things.

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You dont know death if you see only 1 atrocity commited. Some people after Sep11 know death, but most americans DONT.

I didn't know this was a science. Tell me the precise threshold of when people know death, and which studies talk about which percentage of Americans know death.

Look: It's all open to interpretation, but I think it's damn condescending for people to argue that "Americans don't understand death" and use that as a centerpiece for an argument to show full-out carnage all over TV.

Dis · March 25, 2003, 02:30

see, now your sig is correct Tass

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I care. I care completly. Thats why I want a warning.

Warnings are STUPID.
Warnings rarely have an effect, EVER.

If you see a warning on your VHS tapes warning about copying them, do you then say "f*ck, I better not copy this!" or do you just find them annoying?

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Do you want people so desensitised to war that they unleash it on others without a single thought?

That's obviously not the case, there was plenty of thought behind the Iraq conflict. Hell, we gave Iraq over a dozen years to comply with UN demands, but they still wouldn't. C'est la vie.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:31

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Originally posted by Asher

The WTC had more people working in it than people who lived in Umm Qasr...

And were you able to see it close up, how people were being shot at by troops over a hill or right next to you?

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Irrelevant...

Actually yes, I should say more like 50 years.

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Look: It's all open to interpretation, but I think it's damn condescending for people to argue that "Americans don't understand death" and use that as a centerpiece for an argument to show full-out carnage all over TV.

Do you think Americans understand death like, say, an Afghani or a Soviet-Russian would?

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

Warnings are STUPID.
Warnings rarely have an effect, EVER.

If you see a warning on your VHS tapes warning about copying them, do you then say "f*ck, I better not copy this!" or do you just find them annoying?

Fine, if you choose to ignore a warning, then do so. I personally heed to them sometimes. SUCH AS WARNINGS ABOUT VIOLENCE.

it's each persons choice. If they want to ignore it, they can.

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That's obviously not the case, there was plenty of thought behind the Iraq conflict. Hell, we gave Iraq over a dozen years to comply with UN demands, but they still wouldn't. C'est la vie.

Yes it is the case. Because for MANY MANY years, Americans never really thought about the war in Iraq. It just wasnt a major issue.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
And were you able to see it close up, how people were being shot at by troops over a hill or right next to you?

I have no desire to see it close-up, and neither did Americans.

Do you honestly think Americans did not understand how many people died in 9-11 until they see the corpses?

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Do you think Americans understand death like, say, an Afghani or a Soviet-Russian would?

A sufficiently ambiguous question, don't you think?
Every American I know recognizes death is a permanent thing.

If anything, I'd think Afghanis would understand death far less than your average American -- since a lot more Afhganis believe in the false idea of an afterlife.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Fine, if you choose to ignore a warning, then do so. I personally heed to them sometimes. SUCH AS WARNINGS ABOUT VIOLENCE.

it's each persons choice. If they want to ignore it, they can.

Oh, and usually I fast foward through VHS warnings. lasts only about 1 second

Willem · March 25, 2003, 02:34

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Originally posted by Asher

Hey, I know people who survived a 14 storey fall. Therefore we can assume that it's safe to do so.

Right, and I guess my entire generation turned into a bunch of raving lunatics because we all saw graphic images of war in our youth. You have a patronizing attitude towards people obviously.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Fine, if you choose to ignore a warning, then do so. I personally heed to them sometimes. SUCH AS WARNINGS ABOUT VIOLENCE.

it's each persons choice. If they want to ignore it, they can.

If they want to download it, they can.

Same argument -- but for some reason you've convinced yourself it can only work in your case...

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Yes it is the case. Because for MANY MANY years, Americans never really thought about the war in Iraq. It just wasnt a major issue.

Never thought about the war in Iraq??

That's because it wasn't on the edge of war! We were relying on the UN, and Iraq feigned compliance.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Do you honestly think Americans did not understand how many people died in 9-11 until they see the corpses?

No, those images were sufficent. You saw explosions, heard screams, saw people jumping out windows......

But just seeing a building burning doesnt quite give the effect.

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A sufficiently ambiguous question, don't you think?
Every American I know recognizes death is a permanent thing.

It doesnt matter if they recognize it as permanent, i'm sure most people do.

Its DO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT DEATH IS? And if you have to ask me to clarify the question, then you have NO IDEA.

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If anything, I'd think Afghanis would understand death far less than your average American -- since a lot more Afhganis believe in the false idea of an afterlife.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:36

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Originally posted by Willem
Right, and I guess my entire generation turned into a bunch of raving lunatics because we all saw graphic images of war in our youth.

I've never said anything of the sort, nor implied it.

Take your strawmen elsewhere...

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You have a patronizing attitude towards people obviously.

Not everybody -- just the people who need it.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

If they want to download it, they can.

Same argument -- but for some reason you've convinced yourself it can only work in your case...

And if they want to flip off teh TV, they can as well.

My argument allows those who are moderately interested to get information and those who arent at all to leave. Yours doesnt.

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That's because it wasn't on the edge of war! We were relying on the UN, and Iraq feigned compliance.

Lets not begin debating Iraqi compliance. I dont want to nor will I.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:38

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Originally posted by Asher

I've never said anything of the sort, nor implied it.

Take your strawmen elsewhere...

Your hardly one to be talking about debating fallacies

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
And if they want to flip off teh TV, they can as well.

They sure can. But why would this be the case? CNN and company already don't show it, you want them to show it and the existing people who don't want to see it have to turn it off.

If you want to show full-out carnage, use another news network. Call it the NAN, Necrophiliacs Anonymous Network, and you can even show closeups of people's decapitations if you want.

Just leave CNN alone...

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Your hardly one to be talking about debating fallacies

I'm somewhat of an expert now after all these debates with you and Agathon.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:40

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Originally posted by Asher

They sure can. But why would this be the case? CNN and company already don't show it, you want them to show it and the existing people who don't want to see it have to turn it off.

Exactly.

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If you want to show full-out carnage, use another news network. Call it the NAN, Necrophiliacs Anonymous Network, and you can even show closeups of people's decapitations if you want.

Just leave CNN alone...

Your missing the point: I dont want to put dead bodies on TV just for the heck of it. I want to put them on TV to give people the view of the RESULT of the action they either APPROVED or DISAPPROVED, whether that be showing an innocent Iraqi mother with her face in pieces or a bullet through an American Soldiers head.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

I'm somewhat of an expert now after all these debates with you and Agathon.

Yes

Your ability to use fallacies so gracefully never ceases to amaze me

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

Exactly.

Your missing the point: I dont want to put dead bodies on TV just for the heck of it. I want to put them on TV to give people the view of the RESULT of the action they either APPROVED or DISAPPROVED, whether that be showing an innocent Iraqi mother with her face in pieces or a bullet through an American Soldiers head.

Note: I will be one of the people who turns the TV off when they display the warning.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 02:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Your missing the point: I dont want to put dead bodies on TV just for the heck of it. I want to put them on TV to give people the view of the RESULT of the action they either APPROVED or DISAPPROVED, whether that be showing an innocent Iraqi mother with her face in pieces or a bullet through an American Soldiers head.

No, you're missing the point: I understand that.

What you don't understand is people won't watch what they don't want to watch. You DO want to force them to watch it, but you won't admit it. But it's plainly obvious by your position in the post I just quoted.

If you want to show the carnage in its full glory, you can air it on another network. The people interested can watch it, most of us who aren't interested don't have to watch it.

What you want is all the big networks to switch to showing it, so you can force people into watching them (please don't go into the "but there's a warning!" drivel, that's not the point).

Willem · March 25, 2003, 02:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

If anything, I'd think Afghanis would understand death far less than your average American -- since a lot more Afhganis believe in the false idea of an afterlife.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that also a Christian thing? I'd say there's alot more people who believe in an afterlife in America than in Afghanistan. I could be mistaken but I doubt it.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 02:45

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Originally posted by Asher

No, you're missing the point: I understand that.

What you don't understand is people won't watch what they don't want to watch. You DO want to force them to watch it, but you won't admit it. But it's plainly obvious by your position in the post I just quoted.

No ashwer, I dont want to FORCE them. If I did, I would have the government pass a law requiring that everyone take 1000 pictures of the dead bodies, sign them, and put them all over their house. (4000 pictures will be the averege)

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(please don't go into the "but there's a warning!" drivel, that's not the point).

No, its not the point. Its an arguement.