Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway?

Monk · March 25, 2003, 11:24

Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too?

Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.

BeBro · March 25, 2003, 11:26

Harovan · March 25, 2003, 11:29

Who would expect any logic from a moron like Rumsfeld?

BeBro · March 25, 2003, 11:31

Perhaps we could differ a bit: Germany and France are "Very Old Europe", while Scandinavia is "Not So Old Europe". According to Rummy Britain and Spain are probably "Oldie but Goldie".

Spiffor · March 25, 2003, 11:32

I thought the "old Europe" thing was nothing more than a phrase. I don't think there is any analysis to support the concept. As such, IMO, it is only a shallow terminology to bash France, Germany and Belgium, and to show how isolated and wrong they are.
I am not aware anyone in the White House included Greece, Austria, Sweden or such into the "old Europe". In fact, I think most Bushies have given up the phrase pretty quickly, and it only remained in the media and the public opinion.

Monk · March 25, 2003, 11:39

Thanks guys. But surely Denmark must be a significantly newer Europe than the rest of the Scandinavians.

While we're at it, does anybody know why the Danish government would send a submarine to assist the coalition in a campaign of desert warfare? It's a serious question.

Der PH · March 25, 2003, 11:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Monk
Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too?

Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.

I guess in this post you mentioned more European countries than the average American, maybe even Rumsi, knows at all!

Demerzel · March 25, 2003, 11:44

I think "Old Europe" is any country that doesn't agree with Bush

TBH, I hope we can get past this and have just "Europe" soon.

Harovan · March 25, 2003, 11:45

Didn't the Spaniards send (among other forces) a submarine too to retake that rock near the Moroccan coast (forgot the name), captured by no less than 12 soldiers?

Spiffor · March 25, 2003, 11:50

I didn't know they sent a submarine for Persil Island. I thought they only thumped their chest.
What does the Spanish army look like ? I heard it sucks, but it is pure hearsay, and I have no reliable info on it...

Harovan · March 25, 2003, 11:53

As far as I heard, it was a frigate, a sub and some other fearsome force. Guess a holiday steamer with a platoon of soldiers would have done it too.

Proteus_MST · March 25, 2003, 11:53

Of course Rumsfeld himself seems to have forgotten that his Family once came from Germany and therefore Old Europe.

Rumsfelds german relatives (to whom he paid occasional visits) weren´t amused about his Statements concerning "Old Europe" and comparing Germany with Libya and Cuba

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0209-02.htm

oedo · March 25, 2003, 11:53

I´ve read several times, that New Yorck is the US city, where most people oppose the war.
shouldn´t they rename it in Old Yorck then?

Harovan · March 25, 2003, 11:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Of course Rumsfeld himself seems to have forgotten that his Family once came from Germany and therefore Old Europe.

That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

Spiffor · March 25, 2003, 11:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

Kropotkin · March 25, 2003, 13:32

The "Old Europe" term is not much more than a diplomatic euphemism for an insult.

Proteus_MST · March 25, 2003, 13:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

Best way to get rid of them, isn´t it?

Az · March 25, 2003, 14:11

what insult is that, Kropotty?

alva · March 25, 2003, 14:22

I'm curious though as to what price the 'new' europe will have to pay, once this is all behind us.
-

Jules · March 25, 2003, 14:27

Old Europe: those nations who supported us in our War of Independence against England and presently oppose the war against Iraq (e.g., France and Germany).

New Europe: those nations, including Great Britian, who opposed American independence and are supporting us in the war against Iraq (e.g., Spain, proud member of the Habsburg "Axis of Evil" at the time).

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Maniac · March 25, 2003, 14:59

Didn't Spain support the American independence as well??

Jules · March 25, 2003, 15:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Didn't Spain support the American independence as well??

I honestly have no idea. My original post was a lame troll, I'll admit it.

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 15:12

Old Europe: Germany, France, Russia, China, Canada, Mexico, any other country that doesnt support us.

New Europe: Spain, Britain, Eastern Europe (-Russia)

alva · March 25, 2003, 15:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Old Europe: Germany, France, Russia, China, Canada, Mexico, any other country that doesnt support us.

New Europe: Spain, Britain, Eastern Europe (-Russia)

Damn, geography in the US is even worse then I thought...

Jules · March 25, 2003, 15:40

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
Damn, geography in the US is even worse then I thought...

What, you mean Mexico ISN'T a part of Europe??? D'oh!

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 15:43

Quote:

Originally posted by alva

Damn, geography in the US is even worse then I thought...

Europe used to span the entire globe! So all the countries of the world are OLD EUROPE!

New Europe is just Eastern Old Europe (minus Russia). And all those countries supporting us.

Dont schools in Belgium teach these things....

Just goes to show how Belgium is OLD EUROPE.

Robert Plomp · March 25, 2003, 15:49

"Old Europe" would be the countries that have 'ruled the world' for ages.
It would include Spain and The Netherlands and The UK.

Combat Ingrid · March 25, 2003, 16:22

Too much talk about "Old Europe" and "New Europe". Let's talk about "Future Europe" instead

(pic by Paul Hanson, IIRC)

Nubclear · March 25, 2003, 16:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
Too much talk about "Old Europe" and "New Europe". Let's talk about "Future Europe" instead

(pic by Paul Hanson, IIRC)

Robert Plomp · March 25, 2003, 16:53

it still cracks me up