Mutual Respect

MrFun · March 25, 2003, 23:19

You know, with all the protests by some Americans against this war in Iraq, veterans and other pro-war Americans are demanding that we all need to respect our military officers and soldiers fighting for our country.

However, many homosexuals believe that for military officials and soldiers to demand respect, the respect has to be mutual. So as far as I'm concerned, homosexual Americans have no obligation to respect those who disrespect us -- even during this war.

Don't tell me that the ridiculous "don't ask, don't tell" policy gives people equality in the military. If heterosexuals can be comfortable in expressing themselves as heterosexuals, we homosexuals are entitled to the same. "Don't ask, don't tell" is just another name for double standards.

Now only that, but the military also squanders its own human resources by evicting those avowed homosexuals who WANT to serve, and have a career in the military.

And about the argument that allowing avowed homosexuals in the military would lower morale?? White supremacists used to argue before and during the Civil Rights movement, that military integration with blacks would lower the morale of soldiers.

Once integration became the policy it became a social norm, over time, for blacks and whites to interact with one another in the military. The same thing would happen, over a period of time, if we allowed avowed homosexuals to serve their country through the military.

So in the meantime, as long as military officials want to squander their own human resources, and force double standards on us through the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, I don't see why homosexual Americans should respect those who do not respect them.

Asher · March 25, 2003, 23:20

Have you made a post, ever, which was not in some way about homosexuals?

MrFun · March 25, 2003, 23:22

Yes, I have.

But I don't think it's unusual for a gay man to have interests in equal rights regardless of sexual orientation.

Before my last post about "flamboyant heterosexuals" it had been months, if I recall, before I created a separate thread on homosexuals.

Tuberski · March 25, 2003, 23:23

I like what Chris Rock said about gays in the military:

"I think they should allow gays into the military. Why? Cause I ain't gonna fight."

ACK!

Ted Striker · March 25, 2003, 23:24

MrGay,

So you are going to disrespect those grunts out there risking their lives because of a POLICY.

Dis · March 25, 2003, 23:25

I see nothing wrong with the don't ask, don't tell policy.

baby steps. eventually people will be more enlightened

Dis · March 25, 2003, 23:26

and should gays shower and sleep with other men?

Or should they shower with women?

If so, then you can say I'm gay

MrFun · March 25, 2003, 23:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
MrGay,

So you are going to disrespect those grunts out there risking their lives because of a POLICY.

No -- I'm just going to thumb my nose at the military and government officials who are responsible for this double standard.

And the soldiers who have no say in the policy, but are homophobic? Why give them respect that is not due to them?

Ted Striker · March 25, 2003, 23:30

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun
And the soldiers who have no say in the policy, but are homophobic? Why give them respect that is not due to them?

Cause at the end of the day they're just doing their jobs.

alva · March 25, 2003, 23:30

In order to get some respect, you must
a: deserve it
b: give it

respect isn't some automatic right...

MrFun · March 25, 2003, 23:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Cause at the end of the day they're just doing their jobs.

Maybe there are blacks out there who would give racist grunts the same respect they give to other soldiers, but to me, that does not make sense.

DinoDoc · March 25, 2003, 23:34

MrFun: What a wierd nick name you have! Have you never heard of truth in advertising?

Guynemer · March 25, 2003, 23:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
Have you made a post, ever, which was not in some way about homosexuals?

He posts about the Civil War a lot, too.

Jaguar · March 25, 2003, 23:37

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun And the soldiers who have no say in the policy, but are homophobic? Why give them respect that is not due to them?

Homophobic soldiers should be criticized for being homophobic, as all homophobes should. However, they still are fighting for us. They deserve respect for that.

What you are saying is like saying that Bill Clinton shouldn't deserve respect for a good economy because he cheated on his wife.

The two things are unrelated.

Ted Striker · March 25, 2003, 23:39

Quote:

Originally posted by MrFun

Maybe there are blacks out there who would give racist grunts the same respect they give to other soldiers, but to me, that does not make sense.

Okay well then go after racist people in general.

MrFun · March 25, 2003, 23:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Okay well then go after racist people in general.

Of course -- but for this thread in particular, I'm talking about military officials and soldiers who want respect, but won't give respect back to those who deserve it.

Ted Striker · March 25, 2003, 23:59

Oh okay understood.

MrFun · March 26, 2003, 00:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Oh okay understood.

It's really simple -- you demand respect, give respect in return.

Boris Godunov · March 26, 2003, 00:14

Giving respect to armed services personel--or anyone, for that matter--should come based on their individual merits as human beings, not on their group affiliation. I am not obligated to respect a homosexual who is a blatant racist just because he's a homosexual, nor should I be disrespecting a soldier because he is in the military, and the military has a policy with which I vehemently disagree.

Not respecting the policy is sound, not respecting the soldiers is not sound. No, you shouldn't respect homophobic soldiers, nor racist or sexist ones, etc. But saying you won't respect soldiers as a group is no different than someone saying they don't respect homosexuals as a group because some are nasty, rotten people.

If you want to show your displeasure for DADT, and actually have the possibility of bringing change to the policy, I think summarily not respecting any soldier is not a good way to do such a thing.

Worthingtons · March 26, 2003, 00:15

While Equality for all is great, there are times you have to draw the line, and with the Army this is one of them. Many people in the Army are not intelligent (many are of course, but probably more are not) hence them joining the Army. They cannot appreciate that shoe shiners are normal (some struggle to grasp the concept of equality at all) , and trying to impose this on them will not help.

Shirt lifter's cannot really be compared with blacks either. One's ethic origin is a genetic specification, but it's one's own choice whether they want to pack fudge or not. Most people have by now understood that Race is something we're born with, it makes not a jot of difference to most things, and one doesnt have to explain thier colour. Many people however, still do not understand why one actually chooses to be an Uphill gardener, and hence there are going to be morale problems with both the Hetro's and the poo pushers.

alva · March 26, 2003, 00:15

Quote:

It's really simple -- you demand respect, give respect in return.

Are you sure, it's not the other way around ?

you give respect, get respect back.

Ted Striker · March 26, 2003, 00:16

Rothy,

Don't know what the hell you just said but I liked that slang.

Boris Godunov · March 26, 2003, 00:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Rothy,

Don't know what the hell you just said but I liked that slang.

See, MrFun, here we have examples of two individuals who have earned disrespect. But don't use that judge their entire group (which I am presuming to be something on a par with homo neanderthalensis)

Ted Striker · March 26, 2003, 00:24

You just need a counterweight for that chip on your shoulder, Boris.

MrFun · March 26, 2003, 00:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Giving respect to armed services personel--or anyone, for that matter--should come based on their individual merits as human beings, not on their group affiliation. I am not obligated to respect a homosexual who is a blatant racist just because he's a homosexual, nor should I be disrespecting a soldier because he is in the military, and the military has a policy with which I vehemently disagree.

Not respecting the policy is sound, not respecting the soldiers is not sound. No, you shouldn't respect homophobic soldiers, nor racist or sexist ones, etc. But saying you won't respect soldiers as a group is no different than someone saying they don't respect homosexuals as a group because some are nasty, rotten people.

If you want to show your displeasure for DADT, and actually have the possibility of bringing change to the policy, I think summarily not respecting any soldier is not a good way to do such a thing.

I agree -- homosexual racists are not deserving of respect. And I agree that soldiers and officers who are not homophobic deserve respect.

Boris Godunov · March 26, 2003, 00:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
You just need a counterweight for that chip on your shoulder, Boris.

You may find encouraging of the childish use of slurs amusing, but as the recipient of said slurs, I do not.

I don't have any chips on my shoulder, either. After all, I'm not the one repeating unsubstantiated slander against a president who left office 3 years ago out of a deranged, irrational hatred of him.

Ted Striker · March 26, 2003, 00:31

One might think you would enjoy giving a blowjob to our former president.

Guynemer · March 26, 2003, 00:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I don't have any chips on my shoulder, either. After all, I'm not the one repeating unsubstantiated slander against a president who left office 3 years ago out of a deranged, irrational hatred of him.

I hope this quote doesn't come back to haunt you in 2007...

...or, heaven forfend, 2011.

Boris Godunov · March 26, 2003, 00:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

One might think you would enjoy giving a blowjob to our former president.

Considering how often I've seen Bush spooge on your chin, I'll be sure to ask you for some pointers on servicing a Presidential member, mkay?

Worthingtons · March 26, 2003, 00:33

Boris, i have found you to be a very decent person here (hence my vote for yous some time back in that hall of fame milarky) but you are too sensative in regards to 'slurs' as you call them. Not long back you took offense to being called Queer, when most homosexual's consider this normal. It's understandable that you're sensative about this issue tho, just wish you were you more chilled about it.

Cheers
Matt