Turn Chat #18: 1360 BC - 1260 BC (Turn 132 - 137) - Page 2

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:43

Cities - Status

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:44

Radarmap

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:46

Overview of the armed forces

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:47

Diplomacy

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:47

(National) Trade

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:48

Overall Ranking (Line Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:49

Scientific Ranking (Line Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:49

Economic Ranking (Line Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:50

Military Ranking (Line Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:51

Overall Ranking (Zero Sum Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:52

Scientific Ranking (Zero Sum Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:52

Economic Ranking (Zero Sum Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:53

Military Ranking (Zero Sum Graph)

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:56

Chat Report

[22:02] <Locutus> very well, let's start the chat
[22:04] <Locutus> is anyone playing along?
[22:04] <Tamerlin> Yes, I am
[22:04] <Zaphod> i'll try, but im busy eating
[22:04] <Locutus> is anyone not playing along? i.e. should I post lots of screenies?
[22:05] <Tamerlin> Immortal Wombat?
[22:05] <ImmortalWombat> probably not.
[22:06] <Locutus> very well. I'll start by updating the build queue. any objections to the suggestions made by Tamerlin in the forum?
[22:06] <Zaphod> i believe they were fine, cant remember
[22:07] <Locutus> Tamerlin said we should consider RBing the city wall in CL. should we do this?
[22:07] <Zaphod> moment
[22:07] <Locutus> we have almost 6k gold, it will cost 1,7k
[22:08] <Tamerlin> We can wait until the German stack move...
[22:08] <Locutus> I think we should rush-buy and use the time we gain with that to build a caravan or two...
[22:09] <Zaphod> if tey are bouind to attack, next tun will be too late
[22:11] <Tamerlin> OK, RBing and building caravans seems good
[22:11] <ImmortalWombat> agreed
[22:12] <Zaphod> g
[22:12] <Zaphod> agreed
[22:12] <Locutus> okay, rush-buying and inserting 1 Caravan (for now)
[22:12] <Tamerlin> OK
[22:13] <Tamerlin> Done
[22:13] <Locutus> all other changes to the build queues have been made by me
[22:14] <Locutus> zaphod, are you playing along or not?
[22:14] <Zaphod> im trying, just finished dinner
[22:14] <Tamerlin> Done in my game, and yes Zaphod is also playing the game
[22:14] <Locutus> do I have to wait for you? if so, how long do you think it will take?
[22:14] <Zaphod> only rbed and changed to caravan so far
[22:14] <Zaphod> well, not long, what else to do?
[22:15] <Locutus> some units and buildings need to be added to various build queues
[22:15] <Locutus> see http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=82211
[22:16] <Locutus> in the mean time. IW: we have 1,5k PW. do we want to spend some (or all) of that this turn?
[22:16] <ImmortalWombat> yes
[22:16] <Locutus> on what?
[22:16] <ImmortalWombat> I think with such a store, we are fully capable and ready to complete the road network as planned to mapfipolis
[22:17] <ImmortalWombat> and then on the three road tiles due north from wombatoon to the main E-W road
[22:17] <Locutus> okay... I guess I'll have to find the right thread about that...
[22:17] <Tamerlin>

so do I...
[22:17] <ImmortalWombat> sec
[22:17] <ImmortalWombat> http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=79781
[22:18] <Tamerlin> Thanks...
[22:19] <Locutus> okay, so basically build the cheapest road possible from pedrunnia to mapfipolis, as Martin's last 2 pics show?
[22:19] <Zaphod> updated qeues
[22:19] <ImmortalWombat> yes
[22:19] <Locutus> okay, doing so...
[22:20] <ImmortalWombat> which leaves ~1000 PW?
[22:20] <Zaphod> roads built
[22:20] <Zaphod> 1036
[22:20] <ImmortalWombat> I think the best course of action would be to build some farms around Pedrunnia (do we have trading posts yet?)
[22:20] <Locutus> okay, done. yeah, 1k PW left
[22:21] <Locutus> I'm yet to build to road to wombatoon though. 3 tiles north was it?
[22:21] <ImmortalWombat> yes
[22:21] <Zaphod> id prefer a complete roadnetwork too
[22:21] <ImmortalWombat> which should connect equidistantly with the two other cities
[22:21] <Locutus> okay, done. 856 PW left
[22:22] <Locutus> no, we don't have trading posts yet
[22:22] <ImmortalWombat> ok. one farm or two farms round Pedrunnia?
[22:23] <Zaphod> we cann connect graz, linz wombatoon in a triangle for 500
[22:23] <Locutus> linz and maqidad are now the only 2 cities not connected.
[22:23] <Locutus> I'd say 2 farms: one on grassland, 1 on the river
[22:23] <Tamerlin> Which tiles must have roads to connect Wombatoon?
[22:23] <ImmortalWombat> due north Tam
[22:24] <ImmortalWombat> connecting Linz will cost quite a bit won't it? coming over the hills?
[22:24] <Locutus> checking...
[22:24] <Tamerlin> Sorry, I am a bit late on this issue... ok so two roads to connect Wombatoon to the river
[22:24] <Zaphod> sorry, 700, typo
[22:25] <Zaphod> if we don't go over the hills but through that forrest tile instead
[22:25] <ImmortalWombat> should be three tamelin
[22:25] <Locutus> we can connect from Linz to wombatoon for 520, to Graz for 580
[22:25] <Locutus> 2 hills
[22:25] <ImmortalWombat> yeah, if we connect Linz to Wombatoon is will be 520
[22:25] <Tamerlin> OK
[22:25] <Zaphod> or 700 for the complete NETwork
[22:26] <ImmortalWombat> yes
[22:26] <ImmortalWombat> agree
[22:26] <Zaphod> to go the direct route over the hills would 1120 including the short road to wombatoon
[22:26] <Tamerlin> Agreed
[22:26] <ImmortalWombat> strategically, I think those can wait. but it may be better to get the road network done before getting trading posts?
[22:27] <Zaphod> i say lets finish the roadnetwork (well except for maguidad at the moment) and then do the other stuff
[22:27] <Locutus> hmmm, we don't desperately need farms or mines at the moment so might as well finish the road network...
[22:27] <ImmortalWombat> ok
[22:27] <Locutus> so how to we build the roads?
[22:27] <ImmortalWombat> so Road the potato tile
[22:27] <Locutus> do you have a map IW or should I post a pic?
[22:28] <ImmortalWombat> I've got the Naming Linz thread up, so I can see
[22:28] <ImmortalWombat> then from the NE of Linz, go due north to the farm to the SE of Graz
[22:28] <Zaphod> 2 roads west of wombatoon and the connect north and south
[22:29] <Locutus> okay. should the road be a straight line from linz to potato, or go as far north as possible (so we can perhaps connect it to graz as well in the future)?
[22:29] <Locutus> zaphod worded it better than I did

[22:30] <Zaphod> thanks

[22:30] <ImmortalWombat> yes. I think we agree. I'm posting a screenie in the chat thread
[22:31] <Locutus> that would be helpful - this is confusing

[22:31] * Pedrunn has joined #Lemuria
[22:31] <Pedrunn> Hi all
[22:31] <Tamerlin> Hi Pedrunn
[22:31] <ImmortalWombat> http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...31#post1872531
[22:31] <ImmortalWombat> Hi
[22:31] <Locutus> hey
[22:32] <Locutus> looks like this chat might actually work out fine after all...
[22:32] <Tamerlin>

[22:32] <Zaphod> greetings pedrunn
[22:33] <Pedrunn> great
[22:33] <Locutus> okay, objections to IW's suggestion?
[22:33] <Locutus> I agree myself
[22:33] <Zaphod> nope, thats actually what i suggested
[22:33] <Tamerlin> No! roads made
[22:33] <Locutus> tamerlin: huh?
[22:33] <ImmortalWombat> ie. No! [objections]
[22:34] <Locutus> ah, oky...
[22:34] <ImmortalWombat> "roads made" [on my savegame]
[22:34] <Locutus> building road
[22:34] <Pedrunn> did we end turn already?
[22:34] <Tamerlin> No, I agree... I don't have any objections...
[22:34] <Tamerlin> No Pedrunn...
[22:34] <Pedrunn> all units moved?
[22:34] <Zaphod> rbed the city wall and built some roads, thats all
[22:34] <Locutus> no pedrunn, just did build queues, PW and RBing
[22:35] <Locutus> it took a long time for the chat to start...
[22:35] <Pedrunn> no prob
[22:35] <Pedrunn> Lets go on then but my attention will be divided so no wonder if i stop talking for any reason, k?
[22:36] <Locutus> we have 156 PW left. any other wishes, IW/
[22:36] <ImmortalWombat>

3/4 of a farm?
[22:36] <ImmortalWombat> no. I'm done
[22:36] <Locutus> 3 cheap roads (though I have no clue where...)
[22:36] <Locutus> whereto
[22:36] <ImmortalWombat> whither/
[22:37] <Locutus> what should the PW tax be? it's currently at 0%...
[22:37] <Pedrunn> Did we build roads according to the screenshot?
[22:37] <ImmortalWombat> yes, and to mapfipolis according to Martin's plan
[22:37] <Locutus> ped: yes, according to the shot in the chat thread + we built a road from ped to mapfi
[22:37] <Zaphod> could be west of graz to get faster to the front, but if we wish to build something like that we should better go over the hill to the river
[22:37] <ImmortalWombat> Loc: as much as the MoDA is willing to give me

Ideally I suppose another 80% or so once we get trading posts, and before we get catapults
[22:38] <Locutus> are you gonna play along, pedrunn?
[22:38] <Pedrunn> good! We really needed to connect Linz!!! Thanks IW

[22:38] <ImmortalWombat> *for a coupla turns
[22:38] <Tamerlin> We should build a road around CL, this would allow us to move troops when there are 12 units in CL
[22:38] <Pedrunn> yes, i will and am doing the stuff already
[22:38] <Locutus> IW: we just did a few 80%ers, IMHO we should build a few units first now
[22:38] <Locutus> so I'd say 20% max
[22:38] <Tamerlin> You will have your PW... in a few turns
[22:39] <ImmortalWombat> ok. 20% is fine
[22:39] <Locutus> any objections?
[22:39] <ImmortalWombat> in fact, Tamerlin has a point. Stick a road in to the SW of ColLoc
[22:39] <Zaphod> though the next turn we could max out pw, as we rushbought the city walls
[22:40] <Locutus> agree with that - in my own games I *always* build around cities, never through them...
[22:40] <Tamerlin> done
[22:40] <Zaphod> yep, cl needs a bypass, citizens already complain about the traffic jams
[22:41] <Tamerlin> Roads around cities are a "must have"...

[22:42] <Locutus> okay, doing so. we have 106 PW left, do we want to use the same trick NW of wombatoon or east/west of H Town?
[22:42] <Tamerlin> I only have 96 left...

[22:42] <Locutus> sorry, miscalculated...
[22:42] <Zaphod> 96 at mine as well
[22:43] <ImmortalWombat> we can't do H-Town without 2 tiles
[22:43] <Locutus> so, do the same at wombatoon then? (H Town requires 2 roads)
[22:43] <Tamerlin> I agree...
[22:44] <Locutus> IW?
[22:44] <Zaphod> wombatoon, htown has the rivers, they can be used in as well, though not as fast
[22:44] <ImmortalWombat> ok. Wombatoon
[22:44] <ImmortalWombat> NW
[22:44] <Locutus> okay, done.
[22:44] <Zaphod> nope, they can't just had a closer look

[22:44] <Zaphod> wombatoon nevertheless
[22:45] <Tamerlin> Do we set the PW setting at 20% Locutus?
[22:45] <Zaphod> and we should set pw to 80% so we get the best out of cl, where we rbought the walls
[22:45] <Locutus> okay, PW at 20% now
[22:45] <ImmortalWombat> can I go back to sleep now

[22:46] <Locutus> btw, tam, any changes in specialists needed?
[22:46] <Tamerlin> No, IW you will have 187 pts to spend next turn... checking Locutus...
[22:47] <Locutus> research changed to horse riding. done in 4 turns.
[22:47] <Pedrunn> PW rate, roads, build queues!
[22:47] <Tamerlin> No specialist change until the next turn...
[22:47] <Pedrunn> am i missing anything?
[22:47] <Locutus> don't think so, pedrunn...
[22:47] <Zaphod> why 20? why not 10 or 30?
[22:48] <Locutus> well, IW told me to set it at 20

[22:48] <Locutus> personally I think it's fine...
[22:48] <Pedrunn> I am ok with that
[22:48] <Pedrunn> too
[22:49] <Locutus> while we wait for zaphod to (dis)agree with that, we can move units now.
[22:49] <Zaphod> well, you don't have to wait, i already gave you my opinion twice during the last 5 minutes
[22:49] <Locutus> hmm, I'm first gonna have to name them...
[22:50] <Locutus> well, you're in the minority (or at least without proper powers

) so 30+ is not gonna happen anyway...

[22:51] <Zaphod> i know
[22:51] <ImmortalWombat>

[22:51] <Tamerlin> King Locutus have said: I am the state...
[22:51] <Locutus> any objections to pedrunn's movement plan for this turn?
[22:51] <Locutus> yup

[22:52] <Tamerlin> No
[22:52] <Locutus> and I'm an emperor

[22:52] <Locutus> okay, takers move south.
[22:52] <ImmortalWombat> forum emperor, DG King
[22:52] <ImmortalWombat> and President
[22:53] <Locutus> hmm, i guess you have a point there... wow, 3 titles...
[22:53] <Locutus> plus 'manager', that's 4

[22:53] <Tamerlin> Locutus the XIV aka the Sun King...
[22:53] <Locutus> oh, wait. do I expel the jewish settler?
[22:54] <Zaphod> do so
[22:54] <Pedrunn> if possible
[22:54] <Locutus> yeah, after me the sin-flood

(how do you translate that to english anyway?)
[22:54] <Pedrunn> yes
[22:54] <ImmortalWombat> sin-flood?
[22:55] <Tamerlin> After me the deluge...

[22:55] <ImmortalWombat> *slap*
[22:55] <Locutus> flood of sin? no idea what the english name of that biblical flood is...
[22:55] <ImmortalWombat> just "the flood" I think. though deluge would be the quote I guess
[22:55] <Tamerlin> Sin is the cause, flood the consequence...
[22:56] <ImmortalWombat> "If Noah had been truly wise, he would have swatted those two mosquitoes"
[22:56] <Locutus> anyway, settler expelled, takers moved
[22:56] <Locutus> hehe
[22:56] <Tamerlin>

So do we expel those unbelievers?
[22:56] <Zaphod> lol
[22:57] <Tamerlin> Takers?
[22:57] <Locutus> next up is bait: going south through german territory unless I hear objections really fast...
[22:57] <Locutus> takers is the 7-stack, tam
[22:57] <Zaphod> stop
[22:57] <Locutus> okay. what's up, zaph?
[22:57] <Tamerlin> Where do you moved it?
[22:58] <Zaphod> nothing, just had to check
[22:58] <Locutus> tam: moved it south
[22:58] <Zaphod> go along
[22:58] <Tamerlin> OK
[22:58] <Locutus> okay, moving bait south as well
[22:58] <Pedrunn> TAKERS - South (To Wien)
[22:58] <Pedrunn> BAIT - South (going straigh to Austria Territory)
[22:59] <Locutus> farm+road from german city of Bergtesgaden(sp?) reveiled in the SW
[22:59] <Tamerlin> Yes
[23:00] <Locutus> next up, addforce. also going south, unless I hear objections really fast...
[23:00] <Pedrunn> ADDFORCE - South (moving around scottish stack)
[23:01] <Locutus> addforce moved
[23:01] <Tamerlin> Done
[23:02] <Locutus> the other units don't have moves left, so I can't comply with the other orders pedrunn gave me.
[23:02] <Locutus> any other orders/remarks/etc or can we end the turn?
[23:02] <Tamerlin> We can end the turn...
[23:02] <Zaphod> there are some regroupings mentioned
[23:03] <Pedrunn> end turn. I did not checked which units could be moved this turns
[23:03] <Locutus> where? which ones?
[23:03] <Tamerlin> Units moving towards the front?
[23:03] <Pedrunn> so i may have to give some thought
[23:03] <Pedrunn> There are some defenses to move
[23:04] <Zaphod> pressburg wels and wombatoon
[23:04] <Locutus> which ones pedrunn?
[23:04] <Pedrunn> PRESSBURG DEFENSE - Move 1H and 1A (healthy) to E, S, S (to H Town)
[23:04] <Zaphod> PRESSBURG DEFENSE - Move 1H and 1A (healthy) to E, S, S (to H Town)
[23:04] <Zaphod> WELS DEFENSE - Move 2H and 1A to S, S, SW (heading H Town)
[23:04] <Zaphod> WIENNERS - NE, E (intercepting the Hebrew stack)
[23:04] <Zaphod> WOMBATOON DEFENSE - Move 2H and 2A North (to Pedrunnia, we can afford loose Wombatoon but not Pedrunnia)
[23:04] <Locutus> okay, good point
[23:04] <Locutus> didn't see that
[23:04] <Pedrunn> You are fast hum zaphod
[23:04] <Zaphod>

[23:05] <Locutus> okay, any objections to those 3 'defense' moves?
[23:05] <Pedrunn>

[23:05] <Pedrunn>

[23:05] <Locutus> okay, moving them...
[23:06] <Tamerlin> We should move them one by one announcing the tiles...
[23:07] <Pedrunn> how is that?
[23:07] <Pedrunn> pics?
[23:07] <Pedrunn> cant use x, y without cheat mod
[23:07] <Locutus> already moved the stacks
[23:07] <Zaphod> me too
[23:08] <Tamerlin> The problem is we are playing the game on our computers, it could be better to say move one A and 1 H from xxx South for example...
[23:08] <Tamerlin>

I am a bit slow tonight...
[23:09] <Locutus> tam: I want to be faster than the previous presidents. not gonna 'funny about' if it's not needed

[23:09] * flash9286 has joined #lemuria
[23:10] <Locutus> wombatoon now has a happiness of 72. do we want to do anything about that/
[23:10] <Locutus> that?
[23:10] <Locutus> or anything else for that matter, before we end the turn?
[23:10] * flash9286 has left #lemuria
[23:11] <Zaphod> adding an entertainer wonf slow the building of the archer (next turn)
[23:11] <Pedrunn> good
[23:11] <Locutus> I agree with adding an entertainer, but it's tam's call...
[23:11] <Zaphod> of course its his, just checked out the opportunities
[23:11] <Locutus> I was just trying to provoke a reaction, zaph

[23:12] <Tamerlin> Add an entertainer in Wombatoon...
[23:12] <Locutus> from tam, that is

[23:12] <Zaphod> there you are

[23:12] <Tamerlin>

[23:13] <Locutus>

anything else?
[23:13] <Locutus> 3
[23:13] <Locutus> 2
[23:13] <Locutus> 1
[23:13] <Locutus> 0
[23:13] <Locutus> ending turn...

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 02:57

[23:13] <Zaphod> end chat, was a long one already

[23:14] <Locutus> no!

[23:14] * ImmortalWombat is afk for a few mins
[23:14] <Zaphod> englis settler near wels
[23:14] <Locutus> okay, the jew disappeared into the darkness, the austrian settlers moved away from us, another jewish settler appeared in the north
[23:14] <Zaphod> scots moved south
[23:14] <Zaphod> germans went away
[23:15] <Zaphod> and a lone barb near linz
[23:15] <Locutus> that too
[23:15] <Locutus> pikemen, the barb is
[23:16] <Locutus> and the settler isn't jewish but english
[23:16] <Zaphod> looks like we have the same game
[23:16] <Tamerlin> I have forgotten to move the Wienners, who are they?
[23:16] <Zaphod> the stack 12
[23:16] <Tamerlin> OK
[23:17] <Locutus> Wienners didnt' have moves left, Tam
[23:17] <Locutus> yup, looks like it, zaph
[23:17] <Locutus> okay, let's start with the build queue, any changes needed at this point?
[23:18] <Tamerlin> No...
[23:18] <Pedrunn> Actually just checked Wienners had but they were fortified.
[23:18] <Pedrunn> It is late to cry now
[23:19] <Locutus> doh! indeed...
[23:19] <Locutus> sorry about that...
[23:19] <Pedrunn> my fault too
[23:19] <Locutus> but they'll still be well in time
[23:19] <Zaphod> nevermind, there goes another impeachment

[23:19] <Locutus> well, I'm responsible for the savegame...
[23:19] <Pedrunn> If i had totally attention in the game i could have checked that
[23:20] <Pedrunn> But lets forget this and move on
[23:20] <Locutus> indeed.
[23:20] <Tamerlin> Locutus, add 1 Entertainer in H Town and in Mapfipolis as the population will increase next turn...

[23:20] <Locutus> so, Tam, you up-to-date yet?
[23:20] <Zaphod> d'accord
[23:20] <Locutus> okay. remove entertainer in wombatoon?
[23:20] <Pedrunn> I believe we should complete 12 units in Graz and merge the rest of the Wienners to AddForce!
[23:20] <Zaphod> entertainer in womb can be sent back to the fields
[23:20] <Tamerlin> Yes
[23:21] <Zaphod> nope, he can't

[23:21] <Tamerlin> Sorry but the Happiness is going down to 72 in my game so let the entertainer in Wombatoon
[23:22] <Locutus> pedrunn: units come later
[23:22] <Zaphod> yes, it was just a guess
[23:22] <Locutus> tam: was about to ask that

[23:22] <Zaphod> sorry
[23:22] <Pedrunn> sorry
[23:22] <Tamerlin> Bend down all...
[23:23] <Locutus> okay, anything else need to be done, city-wise?
[23:23] <Zaphod> we should have built a warrior, archers ain't good for clobbing people to happiness

[23:23] <Tamerlin> We will need them for reinforcements...
[23:23] <Tamerlin> I don't think something else should be done...
[23:24] <Locutus> okay. IW, you still AFK?
[23:25] <Locutus> I'll take that as a yes. now it's time for the units

[23:25] <Tamerlin>

[23:26] <Locutus> I don't think I quite understand your remark, pedrunn. complete 12 units? merge a 12-stack with a 6-stack?
[23:27] <Tamerlin> I suppose Pedrunn is typing its orders...
[23:27] <Pedrunn> complet 12 units in Graz from Wienners and merge the rest to Addforce
[23:27] <Locutus> ah.. but what about the attack on Wien?
[23:28] <Locutus> I think we should proceed as planned...
[23:28] <Pedrunn> But loosing Graz?
[23:28] <Locutus> units from pressburg and wells are underway...
[23:28] <Pedrunn> Where is the hebrew stack?
[23:28] <Locutus> and H Town can miss a unit or two as well
[23:28] <Zaphod> loose o to whom?
[23:28] <Tamerlin> Why loosing Graz, we have a 12 stack and a 7 stack available...
[23:28] <Locutus> disappeared to the south
[23:29] <Pedrunn> the hebrew stack disappeared?
[23:29] <Locutus> our main problem as I see it is getting around the scots
[23:29] <Locutus> yes
[23:29] <Pedrunn> oh
[23:29] <Pedrunn> in my game they were heading to Graz
[23:29] <Locutus> for now, anyway, but the city will be reinforced before it can become dangerous again
[23:29] <Pedrunn> moved North
[23:30] <Pedrunn> So lets proceed to the Wien attack
[23:30] <Zaphod> so lets be thankfull, you aren't president anymore

[23:30] <Pedrunn> Lests move the explorers first
[23:30] <Locutus> which reminds me, shouldn't we RB the Theater in Graz, so we can build units there? (2 turns to complete, cost 500ish)
[23:30] <Pedrunn>

[23:30] <Tamerlin> I agree
[23:30] <Locutus> okay...
[23:31] <Locutus> bait south?
[23:31] <Pedrunn> yes
[23:31] <Pedrunn> BAIT - South (going straigh to Austria Territory)
[23:31] <Locutus> doing so. goodsight nw?
[23:31] <Pedrunn> GOODSIGHT - NW (explore a unknown territory)
[23:31] <Locutus> another german road revealed south of the farm
[23:32] <Locutus> I'm mainly awaiting objections from others, pedrunn. I know your orders

[23:32] <Pedrunn> OSIBUSTER - SE (Kill Austrian Settler) if not possible North.
[23:32] <Locutus> oesibuster se?
[23:32] <Locutus> sorry, north?
[23:32] <Pedrunn> :Actually north
[23:32] <Pedrunn> any objection
[23:33] <Zaphod> mope
[23:33] <Locutus> goodsight revealed cotton
[23:34] <Pedrunn> SAMURAI - NW (To Linz)
[23:34] <Locutus> samurai NW?
[23:34] <Pedrunn> sorry typo NE
[23:34] <Locutus> okay, moving it NE
[23:35] <Pedrunn> SIZE-3 STACK FROM PRESS - SW, SW, S (to H Town)
[23:35] <Locutus> okay, should addforce go north? (path west is blocked by scots)
[23:35] <Locutus> moving 3-stack
[23:36] <Pedrunn> Now my plan kind of get messed up
[23:36] <Pedrunn> Still we could discuss some stuff
[23:37] <Pedrunn> Moved already Loc?
[23:37] <Locutus> yeah, we have to improvise here...
[23:37] <Locutus> no
[23:37] <Locutus> the explorers moved. that leaves the defenders heading for Graz (presumably) and the 3 offensive stacks
[23:37] <Pedrunn> H DEFENSE - All 6 units S, S, S (just for this turn H Town will be undefended so raise Entertainers) unless if Hebrew stack move North then keep in the city. Call it HEBBEATERS.
[23:37] <Pedrunn> Still moving this
[23:38] <Pedrunn> ?
[23:38] <Locutus> don't think it's needed really. I'd say keep 2 units in H Town, move the rest to Graz.
[23:39] <Tamerlin> Locutus, I would appreciate a saved game at the end of this turn...

[23:39] <Pedrunn> yep with the Hebrew stack gone why would we need a stack named Hebbeaters
[23:39] <Locutus> that's 4 units plus 3 from wels plus 3 from graz itself = 10 defenders...
[23:40] <Locutus> indeed, we don't want to make more enemies now. focus on defense versus the hebrew and scots...
[23:41] <Locutus> tam: will do.
[23:41] <Pedrunn> But now just hit me! We could send the Hebbeaters to Wombatoon
[23:41] <Tamerlin> Thanks...
[23:42] <Pedrunn> comments?
[23:42] <Zaphod> we are just moving units out of wombatoon
[23:42] <Locutus> no, I would say send the 4 units that just left wombatoon back (pedrunnia already has 8 units and will manage fine) and focus on defending Graz
[23:42] <Zaphod> if we really wish they can be back in one step and the "hebbeaters" can use the road to pedr instead of them
[23:44] <Pedrunn> yep. My fear was an attack from the Germans in Pedrunnia but that not something very likely to happen now. So thay will be back to Wombatoon
[23:44] <Locutus> good point: we could build a large stack 3 tiles north of wobatoon: that could defend wombatoon, graz and pedrunnia at the same time...
[23:45] <Pedrunn> thats kind of the idea but that patrol stack from locutus is indeed the best
[23:46] <Pedrunn> comments?
[23:46] <Zaphod> in that case we need an additional roadtile
[23:46] <Pedrunn> where?
[23:46] <Zaphod> se of the wheat
[23:46] <Tamerlin> The problem is that the saved game from Martin did not had the full nam of the armies and I am not really aware of their location...
[23:46] <Zaphod> else pedr wont be in reach for one turn
[23:47] <Pedrunn> Pedrunnia is out of danger
[23:47] <Pedrunn> So two turns to reach it isnt a bad distance
[23:47] <Locutus> yeah, but an extra road there wouldn't be bad. we can do that when IW is back
[23:47] <Pedrunn> just 60 PW anyway
[23:47] <Locutus> anyway, what are the orders for this turn? first the 4-stack N of wombatoon...
[23:48] <Zaphod> that would allow us to have all 3 towns reachable in one turn from our quick reinforcement stack
[23:48] <Pedrunn> first
[23:48] <Pedrunn> TAKERS - South (To Wien)
[23:48] <Locutus> okay, next?
[23:48] <Pedrunn> Second
[23:49] <Pedrunn> ADDFORCE - SE
[23:49] <Locutus> waiting...
[23:49] <Pedrunn> WIENNERS - W
[23:49] <Pedrunn> Any comments
[23:49] <Locutus> objections?
[23:49] <Tamerlin> no
[23:49] <Pedrunn> Hey loc, you brake apart my order

[23:49] <Locutus> SE?
[23:49] <Pedrunn>

[23:49] <Locutus> retreat?
[23:50] <Zaphod> seems fine
[23:50] <Locutus> well, I guess that's worth a shot, see how the scots react.
[23:50] <Zaphod> and thats no retreat
[23:50] <Locutus> making both moves...
[23:50] <Pedrunn> Actually blocking the 11 stack with winners
[23:50] <Zaphod> its a tactical move
[23:50] <Pedrunn> winners = Wienners
[23:51] <Locutus> so, what to do with the 4-stack from wombatoon?
[23:51] <Locutus> back to the city?
[23:51] <Zaphod> we could split one archer apart to have a look west
[23:51] <Locutus> or to the 'collection point' for the 3-city defense?
[23:51] <Pedrunn> did yopu moved already
[23:51] <Pedrunn> the units west of Graz?
[23:52] <Locutus> no, nothing moved yet
[23:52] <Zaphod> i already did
[23:52] <Locutus> that's risky, zaph, we might loose it (that's next to FOW)
[23:52] <Pedrunn> K
[23:52] <Pedrunn> I did too
[23:52] <Zaphod> fow?
[23:52] <Locutus> fog of war
[23:53] <Locutus> what did you guys move?
[23:53] <Zaphod> well, thats why he should have a look
[23:53] <Zaphod> the wieners and addforce
[23:53] <Pedrunn> me too
[23:53] <Locutus> yeah, moved those too
[23:53] <Locutus> but not the smaller stacks yet
[23:54] <Pedrunn> I liked the big stack idea protectinf Graz, Wombatoon and Pedrunnia
[23:55] <Locutus> so, move 4 units there?
[23:55] <Pedrunn> waiting comments
[23:55] <Tamerlin> OK
[23:56] <Zaphod> ok
[23:56] <Tamerlin> Though we are putting ourselves in defence when we should launch an all out attack on Austria...

[23:56] <Locutus> there's a river north. we could move N-W and recon the area between wombatoon and graz while still moving towards the collection point...
[23:57] <Locutus> tam: the two can be combined...
[23:57] <Tamerlin> So let's do it...
[23:57] <Zaphod> ok
[23:58] <Locutus> pedrunn: just N and wait for next turn to go further N, or go N and then W (and further N next turn over the then-finished road)
[23:59] <Pedrunn> Just N seems fine
[23:59] <Pedrunn> dont actually see a difference
[23:59] <Zaphod> we might spot the hebrews
[23:59] <Zaphod> if we continue west
[00:00] <Locutus> Ped: the difference is that we reveal some fog, and possibly the jews or some barbs...
[00:00] <Locutus> at no additional cost
[00:01] <Pedrunn> so W too
[00:01] <Locutus> k, done
[00:01] <Pedrunn> Dont think we will loose the units anyway
[00:01] <Locutus> IW: how about that road tile
[00:01] <Locutus> (nothing revealed BTW)
[00:02] <ImmortalWombat> I don't know which tile you mean
[00:02] <Zaphod> confirmed
[00:02] <Zaphod> the importantway tile
[00:02] <Zaphod> se of the wheat
[00:02] <Pedrunn> The Alt-tabs caused craziness in my PC. So i am eagerly waiting the saved game.
[00:03] <Pedrunn>

[00:03] <ImmortalWombat> oh I see
[00:03] <ImmortalWombat> how much PW we have?
[00:03] <Zaphod> 195
[00:04] <ImmortalWombat> go for it.
[00:04] <Locutus> k, road built
[00:05] <Locutus> we *could* build a road around H Town (east or west, both cost 120 PW for 2 tiles) as well, to move around potential 12-stacks defending the city. do we want this?
[00:05] <Zaphod> what about the english settler, send someone to scare him away`?
[00:06] <Zaphod> don't think that h-town bypass is necessary now, we should collect for mines/farms
[00:06] <Locutus> I can live with that.
[00:06] <Zaphod> or the soon to build road to wien ;P
[00:06] <Locutus> I think the english settler is no threat to us at this time
[00:07] <Zaphod> no threat, only pesky
[00:07] <Tamerlin> There is not much place to settle...
[00:07] <Locutus> I say leave it alone. unless pedrunn says otherwise we move on...
[00:07] <Pedrunn> Actually between CL and Maquiladad could be nice production spot
[00:08] <Pedrunn> I don even have the game anymore

[00:08] <Locutus> that's still far away. we can expel him later
[00:08] <Tamerlin> True...
[00:08] <Locutus> so, Pedrunnia, Pressburg, Wombatoon and Wels all built archers. fortify all?
[00:08] <Pedrunn> Dont see why not
[00:09] <Pedrunn> but we could indeed send a archer from Press to H Town
[00:09] <Tamerlin> Yes
[00:10] <Locutus> agree.
[00:10] <Locutus> will move the archer to H Town.
[00:10] <Locutus> meanwhile, we have 6 units in H Town with movement points left. move any or all of them?
[00:11] <Pedrunn> I believe we should move all to meet the ones from Wombatoon
[00:11] <Locutus> all? leave the city undefended?
[00:11] <Tamerlin> The more we have troops to attack Wien the more we would be ready to attack another Austrian city if Wien is not well defended...
[00:11] <Zaphod> moving all would cause unhappiness, won't it?
[00:11] <Locutus> I think we should move 4 to wombatoon...
[00:11] <Locutus> leave 2 to defend
[00:11] <Tamerlin> Leave 3 units for the martial law...
[00:12] <Pedrunn> three is coming from Press next turn
[00:12] <Locutus> tam: 1 units is coming from pressburg this turn
[00:12] <Locutus> plus 3 from wels (not press)
[00:13] <Tamerlin> So we should let 2 units there and move the others now...
[00:13] <Locutus> but those should IMO move to wombatoon as well, but that's for later
[00:13] <Pedrunn>

[00:13] <Locutus> okay. doing so. leave 2 hoplites? (plus archer from pressburg)
[00:13] <Tamerlin> Yep
[00:14] <Locutus> pedrunn?
[00:14] <Locutus> meanwhile, do we RB the Theater in Graz or not? (2 turns to build, cost 538)
[00:15] <Locutus> ped, tam?
[00:15] <Tamerlin> Yes
[00:15] <Pedrunn> decide for me. My attention is divided
[00:15] <Pedrunn> sorry
[00:15] * CoT has joined #lemuria
[00:16] <Locutus> good, was just about to PM you, CoT

[00:16] <Locutus> welcome

[00:16] <Tamerlin> Hi CoT
[00:16] <Zaphod> greetings cot
[00:16] <CoT> phew got lost in some place called apolymuria! Hi all
[00:17] <Locutus> okay, left behind 2 hoplites
[00:18] <Locutus> okay, end turn?
[00:18] <Tamerlin> Yes, end turn and send a saved game...

[00:18] <Zaphod> ok
[00:18] <CoT> ok
[00:19] <Locutus> sorrry, BTW, rush-bought theater as well
[00:19] <Locutus> ending turn now

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 03:02

[00:19] <Tamerlin> RB the Theater in Graz
[00:20] <CoT> i just posted in Pedrunn's thread where he was concerned about all the large stack around. Has it been decided how to deal or not deal with that before we try to attack Wein?
[00:20] <CoT> slap me if i'm putting my big foot in the flow here
[00:21] <Locutus> saved game, going to upload it now. CoT, are you gonna play along or do you need screens?
[00:22] <CoT> No CTP2 within 3mile of my location! Nah i'll wing it so don't worry about screens
[00:23] <CoT> I'm working

[00:24] <Tamerlin> Locutus, do you post the saved game in the Chat Thread?
[00:24] <Locutus> save uploading. yes
[00:24] <Locutus> should be there in a few secs
[00:24] <Tamerlin> OK
[00:25] <Locutus> will post 1 screen which shows everything but a german settler near mapfipolis
[00:25] <Locutus> save posted
[00:27] <Zaphod> and loaded
[00:27] <ImmortalWombat> I have to go.
[00:28] <Locutus> appoint a delegate...
[00:28] <ImmortalWombat> happy hunting, fellow Lemurians
[00:28] <ImmortalWombat> Zaphod
[00:28] <ImmortalWombat> ?
[00:28] <Locutus>

[00:28] <Locutus> if he agrees...
[00:28] <Locutus> zahp?
[00:28] <Zaphod> yep?
[00:28] <Zaphod> yep
[00:28] <Zaphod> !
[00:29] <Locutus> good. in that case, sleep well, Ben

[00:29] <ImmortalWombat> ok
[00:29] <ImmortalWombat> thx
[00:29] <ImmortalWombat> g'night
[00:29] <Tamerlin> Game loaded, thanks Locutus... bye IW
[00:29] <Zaphod> one question
[00:29] <Locutus> sure
[00:29] <Zaphod> shall we go for more roads, or begin other infrastructure?
[00:29] <ImmortalWombat> I think we have all the roads we need
[00:29] <Locutus> agree
[00:29] <ImmortalWombat> unless we need diversions around cities, go for other infrastructure
[00:29] <Zaphod> ok
[00:29] <ImmortalWombat> Pedrunnia needs farms, HTown wants Trading Posts ASAP
[00:30] <Locutus> dammit, why won't the screenie load... it's prolly to big...
[00:30] * ImmortalWombat has quit IRC (Quit: The Zephyr has left the building)
[00:31] <Locutus> yup, it was. trying a smaller file now, lower quality
[00:32] <Locutus> dammit, too wide
[00:32] <Tamerlin>

[00:32] <Locutus> okay, last try.
[00:33] <Locutus> we'll continue now. everyone ready? pedrunn, you still here?
[00:33] <Locutus> pic posted
[00:33] <Tamerlin> Reday
[00:33] <Tamerlin> uuuh! ready...

[00:33] <Locutus> I hope it's readable on smaller screens...
[00:35] <Locutus> Ballista Towerw built in mapfipolis and Theater in Graz
[00:35] <Locutus> two cities unhappy: CL and press. add entertainers?
[00:36] <Tamerlin> Yes, I was checking the towns, here are my orders:
[00:36] <Tamerlin> Add 1 Entertainer in Colonia Locuta and Pressburg...
[00:36] <Locutus> zaphod, in the meantime, are we spending any of the 287 PW?
[00:36] <Tamerlin> Remove 1 Entertainer in Mpfipolis and Graz...
[00:37] <Zaphod> id say a farm on the grassland near ped
[00:37] <Tamerlin> Is this an order?
[00:38] <Locutus> okay, entertainer orders executed
[00:38] <Zaphod> i think so, it was what iw said as first target
[00:38] <Tamerlin> On which tile...
[00:38] <Locutus> any objections?
[00:38] <Locutus> there is only 1 grass
[00:38] <Tamerlin> Yes, sorry...
[00:38] <Zaphod> though i personally would prefer to start with a farm near mapfipolis, since that is a weak grower bend to be a great producer
[00:39] <Zaphod> but it can go next as well
[00:39] <Locutus> I'd say do it city-by-city and start with the capital: in the long run it will always have be one of the best production cities (more happiness, less corruption)
[00:40] <Locutus> so, building a farm now...
[00:40] <Locutus> any other orders for PW or cities?
[00:40] <Zaphod> nope
[00:40] <Tamerlin> No
[00:41] <Tamerlin> Units?
[00:41] <Locutus> yeah, units.
[00:41] <Zaphod> brb
[00:42] <Pedrunn> I have to go now but i compiled all the orders for this turn
[00:42] <Locutus> pedrunn, you here?
[00:42] <Pedrunn> So can i just post here
[00:42] <Pedrunn> all of them
[00:42] <Locutus> okay, appoint a delegate just in case...
[00:42] <Pedrunn> CoT is the next in my list
[00:42] <Tamerlin> Choose the one to be blamed...

[00:42] <Locutus> he seems busy, but we'll see how it goes...
[00:43] <Pedrunn> Anyway you all can decide for me
[00:43] <Locutus> he can always appoint another delegate himself

[00:43] <Locutus> okay, good night, pedrunn.
[00:43] <Pedrunn> So dont tell anything in the next minutes

[00:43] <Tamerlin> Bye Pedrunn...
[00:43] <Pedrunn> BAIT - South (going straigh to Austria Territory)
[00:43] <Zaphod> goodnight, cu
[00:43] <Pedrunn> wait i am going to post the orders
[00:43] <Locutus> okay:
[00:43] <Locutus> BAIT - South (going straigh to Austria Territory)
[00:43] <Locutus> GOODSIGHT - NW (explore a unknown territory)
[00:43] <Locutus> OSIBUSTER - North (explore a unknown territory)OSIBUSTER - North (explore a unknown territory)
[00:43] <Locutus> SAMURAI - NW (To Linz)
[00:44] <Locutus> any objections?
[00:44] <Locutus> I'll take that as a no...
[00:44] <Zaphod> right
[00:45] <Pedrunn> Bah i am postin in th chat thread since the java chat doesnt allow multiple 'enter' keys
[00:45] <Tamerlin> Samurai NE?
[00:45] <CoT> so what do i do now?
[00:46] <Locutus> tam: already did so, ped already said that was a typo...
[00:46] <Pedrunn> check out here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...76#post1872951
[00:46] <Tamerlin> OK
[00:47] <CoT> Pedrunn was MOD right? I got to image 50 pc's in 10 mins and be MOD!!!!!!!!!
[00:47] <Locutus> oesibuster revealed a goody hut N
[00:47] <Pedrunn> K, them seeya
[00:47] <Locutus> okay, appoint someone else as delegate then, CoT...
[00:47] <Locutus> I figured you were busy...
[00:47] <Pedrunn> CoT can you see the orders
[00:48] <Pedrunn> Feel free to cange those orders
[00:48] <Pedrunn> Now it is a goodbye
[00:48] <Zaphod> shouldn't wieners fortify, just in case the scots get bad ideas?
[00:48] <Pedrunn> So Locutus can you be the MoD
[00:49] <Pedrunn> yes of course
[00:49] <Locutus> okay, I'm MoD when needed
[00:49] <Locutus> bye, ped
[00:49] <Zaphod> cu
[00:49] <Tamerlin> Bye Pedrunn
[00:49] <Pedrunn> bye
[00:49] * Pedrunn has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[00:49] <CoT> sorry yeah i appoint Locutus

[00:49] <Locutus> I followed pedrunn's old orders BTW, which means goodsight went NW, not N.
[00:49] <Locutus> for those playing along...
[00:49] <Locutus> (pedrunn was too late)
[00:50] <Zaphod> damn, already moved it north
[00:51] <Locutus> okay, takers S, addforce NW, wienners fortify - objections?
[00:51] <Zaphod> nope
[00:51] <Locutus> zaph: oh well, minor issue, won't change much probably...
[00:51] <Tamerlin> Fortify yes, moved it NW, btw who is "backup"
[00:51] <Tamerlin> it=goodsight
[00:51] <Locutus> the stack from wombatoon. we'll get to them in a minute...
[00:52] <Tamerlin> So I don't move backup and hebbeaters?
[00:53] <Locutus> unless someone objects, those two stacks meet NE-NE of backup's current location...
[00:53] <Tamerlin> OK
[00:53] <Zaphod> ok
[00:53] <Locutus> rename tripolis defendis?
[00:54] <Locutus> (and merge of course)
[00:54] <Locutus> or does someone have a better name or possibly a correction on my horrible latin grammar

[00:54] <Zaphod> si effendi
[00:54] <Zaphod> damn, the savegame doesnt carry the names for stacks
[00:55] <Tamerlin> Isn't the correct location NW-NW of Back up?
[00:55] <Locutus> it should...
[00:55] <Zaphod> Q(uick)R(esponse)F(orce) #1 "Central" ?
[00:55] <Locutus> no, NE-NE, same as N-N-N of wombatoon
[00:56] <Tamerlin> Sorry I misplaced the location, no problem...
[00:56] <Locutus> defendii tripoli?
[00:56] <Zaphod> QRF-1-Cntrl you know the military is always keen on abbrevs.
[00:56] <Locutus> sorry, defendi tripoli?
[00:56] <Locutus> that's too much of a pain to use in the chat

let's shorten it to tripoli

[00:57] <Tamerlin> OK
[00:58] <Locutus> next up is the 3-stack from wels. Pedrunns wants to add it to H Town. I disagree: H Town isn't threatened. I say either add it to Graz or to Tripoli...
[00:58] <Locutus> thoughts?
[00:59] <Tamerlin> Graz is close to the front so I would prefer this city...
[00:59] <Zaphod> well, if we sent the units further, we should sort them, letting 2 or 4 pairs in htwon. and the rest go on
[00:59] <Zaphod> i like xH/xA stacks
[01:00] <Zaphod> makes them easy to split or combine if neccessary
[01:01] <Tamerlin> So?
[01:02] <Locutus> agreed, but Tripoli is unbalanced as well, I'd prefer to balance that out first. send 2H to tripoli and 1A to graz?
[01:02] <Zaphod> having a look at triplo
[01:02] <Locutus> sorry, graz=h town
[01:02] <Locutus> it has 2 archers too many
[01:03] <Zaphod> i see
[01:03] <Tamerlin> I agree
[01:03] <Locutus> btw, Graz is building an archer but already has 2 (and 1 hoplite). should we switch to hoplite, tam?
[01:03] <Locutus> zaphod, do you agree as well?
[01:03] <Zaphod> just a question, why do we always produce a/h/a/h... in our unitproducing cities if we have a lack of hoplites?
[01:04] <Zaphod> i agree
[01:04] <Locutus> we don't lack hoplites AFAIK... not many anyway...
[01:04] <Locutus> not right now...
[01:04] <Zaphod> so there must be a stack full of hoplites with few archers somewhere
[01:04] <Locutus> we have 47H 48A - perfect (well, almost

)
[01:05] <Zaphod> its addforce
[01:05] <Zaphod> 5h1a
[01:05] <Locutus> yup. with reason
[01:05] <Zaphod> yes, makes sense, now when i think about it
[01:06] <Locutus> units from wells moved. no more moves left. any other orders or end turn?
[01:06] <Locutus> tamerlin, how about that graz production? switch to hoplite?
[01:06] <Tamerlin> Checking...
[01:06] <Tamerlin> Add a Hoplite at the front of the Build Queue
[01:07] <Locutus> done. anything else for this turn?
[01:07] <Tamerlin> Do we move the 3 units to H Town or elsewhere?
[01:07] <Zaphod> the 3 units have been moved sss?
[01:07] <Zaphod> to htown, and the htowners south
[01:07] <Zaphod> will give us more speed
[01:08] <Tamerlin> OK
[01:08] <Locutus> I moved 1A to H Town and 2H to Tripoli
[01:09] <Locutus> the 2H will arrive next turn
[01:09] <Locutus> not much is gained by moving units from H Town
[01:09] <Zaphod> well, my archer is still with them, but i gues that can be cured easily next turn
[01:10] <Locutus> indeed
[01:10] <Zaphod> not much is lost
[01:10] <Locutus> so, end turn?
[01:10] <Zaphod> but i think we should move on
[01:10] <Zaphod> yes
[01:10] <Tamerlin> Yes
[01:10] <Locutus> okay, ending turn...
[01:11] <Zaphod> scots moved south, german settler between cl and mpf
[01:11] <Locutus> and pilsen grows to size 7
[01:11] <Zaphod> and some funny messages, should have reloaded slic
[01:12] <Locutus> Hoplites built in Pedrunnia and Linz
[01:12] <Locutus> btw, India built a city in the mountains between CL/mapfipolis and maquidad a turn or 2 ago, in case you haddn't noticed...
[01:13] <Locutus> any orders for the cities? entertainers/build queues?
[01:13] <Tamerlin> Checking
[01:13] <Zaphod> you mean surat?
[01:14] <Zaphod> add another farm to ped?
[01:14] <Tamerlin> All is OK
[01:14] <Locutus> agree, zaphod.
[01:14] <Tamerlin> Yes
[01:14] <Locutus> on the river?
[01:14] <Tamerlin> Would be fine
[01:15] <Zaphod> yep
[01:15] <Locutus> okay, farm built. rush-buy the caravan BTW?
[01:15] <Zaphod> on which rivertile?
[01:15] <Tamerlin> NW
[01:16] <Locutus> immediately next to the city
[01:16] <Zaphod> to expensive
[01:16] <Zaphod> o
[01:16] <Locutus> why? no more expensive than any other tile...
[01:16] <Zaphod> i meant rushbying the caravan
[01:16] <Tamerlin> Why not rush buying it and build another one, it would allow us to open our first trade route...

[01:17] <Locutus> ah, ok.
[01:17] <Locutus> that's what I was thinking, tam
[01:17] <Locutus> so it's 2-1, zaph looses

[01:17] <Zaphod> there we go
[01:17] <Tamerlin>

[01:17] <Locutus> RBing caravan
[01:18] <Tamerlin> done
[01:18] <Locutus> build another caravan next turn?
[01:18] <Zaphod> though i still think, we should rushbuy several things from time to time and set the pw rate very high that turn, gives us the things and a lot of pw in the same turn
[01:18] <Locutus> in CL?
[01:18] <Tamerlin> Yes
[01:18] <Zaphod> yes
[01:18] <Locutus> we almost have Trade posts, can we increase PW now or shall we wait?
[01:19] <Tamerlin> No, all seems OK
[01:19] <Tamerlin> Sorry, wrong line before....
[01:19] <Zaphod> as we aren't produncing anything of much urgency it can be set very high in my opinion
[01:20] <Tamerlin> I consider the units very important as they will allow us to end this war as soon as possible...
[01:20] <Locutus> we can set it at 80% max. I say we do this and RB any units which now take 1 turn to finish but take more than 3 turns with PW at 80%...
[01:20] <Zaphod> daccord
[01:21] <Tamerlin> OK
[01:21] <Locutus> that would cost us ~1200 gold. no objections?
[01:21] <Tamerlin> No
[01:21] <Locutus> okay, doing so
[01:22] <Zaphod> so where exactly do we rb?
[01:23] <Locutus> RB everything except Pedrunnia, Wombatoon, Linz and Wels
[01:23] <Locutus> and PW at 80% of course...
[01:23] <Zaphod> done
[01:24] <Locutus> time for the units, unless you have something else but I'll hear from you if so
[01:24] <Zaphod> so, lets go for wien
[01:25] <Tamerlin> done
[01:25] <Locutus> get the goody hut with oesibuster?
[01:25] <Zaphod> yep
[01:25] <Tamerlin> Barbs! And lots of...
[01:26] <Tamerlin> Sure, we will have barbs, the game is well advanced...
[01:26] <Zaphod> great library - consumer electronics
[01:26] <Zaphod> should have reloaded slic

[01:26] <Tamerlin>

[01:26] <Locutus> 2 barb horse archers...
[01:27] <Zaphod> i got 2 hoplites besides of that notice
[01:27] <Locutus> samurai NE, bait S?
[01:27] <Zaphod> y
[01:27] <Locutus> goodsight N?
[01:27] <Zaphod> y
[01:28] <Locutus> (W for zaphod I think

)
[01:28] <Locutus> moving remaining explorers as stated aboved...
[01:28] <Zaphod> nw i thought
[01:30] <Locutus> goodsight? I moved north, I'm now NE-NE of the cotton
[01:30] <Tamerlin> right
[01:30] <Locutus> you both up to date?
[01:30] <Zaphod> me too
[01:30] <Zaphod> yep
[01:30] <Tamerlin> yes I am
[01:31] <Locutus> okay then, move takers south, addforce west, wienners W-NW?
[01:31] <Zaphod> yep
[01:32] <Locutus> okay, doing so. fortify the units we just built in pedrunnia and linz?
[01:32] <Zaphod> yes
[01:32] <Zaphod> and we should send that warrior in linz scouting
[01:33] <Locutus> Wien is heavily mined - good thing these mines don't hurt as much as some others do

[01:33] <Zaphod> lol
[01:33] <Tamerlin> Scouting towards Pilsen would be a good idea...
[01:34] <Zaphod> along the river?
[01:35] <Tamerlin> Yes
[01:35] <Locutus> I would prefer to scout near the Indian border, and perhaps pick up that Goody hut...
[01:35] <Locutus> (ruin near Guntur)
[01:35] <Zaphod> dont see a ruin
[01:35] <Tamerlin> Far to the south
[01:36] <Zaphod> ok. now i see it
[01:36] <Locutus> bottom of the map, in Indian borders. I say move the warrior from Linz S-SE.
[01:36] <Zaphod> very far south
[01:36] <Locutus> good long-term goal, the Indians don't seem interested...
[01:37] <Tamerlin> OK
[01:37] <Locutus> so, what do you guys think? to Pilsen or to Guntur?
[01:37] <Zaphod> we would have to violate the nontrespasstreaty to get it
[01:37] <Locutus> they won't see us
[01:38] <Tamerlin> I would prefer Pilsen as we are campaigning against them... and we don't know if this hut still exists
[01:38] <Zaphod> id go for pilsen as well
[01:38] <Locutus> it still exists: if a hut is taken it disappears of the mapp instantly
[01:38] <Locutus> okay, then I'm outvoted

S-SW?
[01:39] <Tamerlin> OK... didn't knew
[01:39] <Tamerlin> Pilsen...
[01:39] <Tamerlin> Yes, sorry, S-SW
[01:39] <Locutus> we do risk being chased by the barb then....
[01:40] <Zaphod> you are outvoted, but since you are the mod-delegate that doesn't count

[01:40] <Locutus> it's still a democracy, zaph

[01:40] <Zaphod> and if that proves to be a bad decision in the future, we have to blame pedrunn :P
[01:41] <Locutus> indeed

I'll first move the 2 hoplites from wels to Tripoli and then if I don't hear you changed your mind on the Warrior I'll send it S-SW (towards the barb)
[01:41] <Tamerlin> S-SW and then step back if you spot a barb
[01:41] <Locutus> btw, tripoli fortified.
[01:42] <Locutus> warrior moved, end turn?

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 03:03

[01:42] <Tamerlin> yes
[01:42] <Zaphod> wait
[01:42] <Zaphod> what about the german settler? expell it?
[01:42] <Tamerlin> We should
[01:43] <Locutus> we can't. we can intercept it and expel it next turn though, should we so desire...
[01:43] <Zaphod> lets do that
[01:44] <Zaphod> corner it with one unit from mpf and cl each
[01:44] <Tamerlin> Hoplites
[01:44] <Locutus> okay, doing so
[01:45] <Tamerlin> Have you spotted something with the Warrior from Linz?
[01:45] <Zaphod> nope
[01:45] <Locutus> shall I add archers as well: explores the fog of war?
[01:45] <Locutus> no
[01:45] <Zaphod> ok
[01:47] <Tamerlin> You moved it S and then SW?
[01:47] <Locutus> nothin new revealed.
[01:47] <Locutus> yes
[01:47] <Tamerlin> I can see a barbarian SW-W...
[01:47] <Zaphod> me not
[01:47] <Tamerlin> I will correct this with the cheat menu
[01:48] <Locutus> stuped: just noticed something: the barb NW-NW of the Warrior can attack him over the river...
[01:48] <Locutus> should have seen it before...
[01:48] <Locutus> shall I add an escort of 2H 2A?
[01:48] <Zaphod> what barb?
[01:48] <Locutus> the one W-SW of Linz
[01:49] <Tamerlin> It must be the same barb moved differently in you games...
[01:49] <Zaphod> oh, no one there at ym game
[01:49] <Locutus> must be
[01:49] <Zaphod> what kind of barb?
[01:49] <Locutus> anyway, it is in mine. it's a pikeman. add escort 2H/2A?
[01:50] <Zaphod> yes
[01:50] <Locutus> doing so...
[01:51] <Locutus> okay, anything else?
[01:51] <Locutus> or end turn?
[01:51] <Zaphod> end
[01:52] <Tamerlin> We should have an archer to move Zaphod and I, the archer coming from H Town
[01:52] <Locutus> the archer from H Town stays in H Town (should have 2H 2A)
[01:52] <Zaphod> already moved it back and ended the turn
[01:52] <Tamerlin> OK, I send him back to H Town
[01:52] <Locutus> end turn, Tam?
[01:53] <Locutus> or is there anything left to do?
[01:53] <Tamerlin> I don't think so!
[01:53] <Locutus> okay, ending turn...
[01:54] <Locutus> German stack appeared outside Wombatoon, Pedrunnia rioting
[01:54] <Locutus> Oesibuster defeated by Barb horse archer
[01:55] <Zaphod> quite different to mine, i think its time for a new savegame
[01:55] <Tamerlin> Yes, no riots in mine...
[01:55] <Locutus> crapload of units built, Jewish stack near Linz (near Barb, which fortified)
[01:55] <Tamerlin> No attack by barbs
[01:56] <Locutus> 2 german settlers inside borders.
[01:56] <Locutus> shall I post a savegame?
[01:56] <Zaphod> yes
[01:56] <Tamerlin> It would be good
[01:56] <Zaphod> we are playing a different game already
[01:56] <Locutus> we could send a suicide unit to Wien first: that may require us to end the chat to poll if we should attack Wien...
[01:57] <Locutus> it's late anyway: I can't play on much longer. have to get up again in less than 5 hours...
[01:57] <Tamerlin> Do you want to end now?
[01:58] <Locutus> I first want to suicide Wien, see if we should attack now or poll it
[01:58] <Tamerlin> This has already been polled Locutus...
[01:58] <Zaphod> i wont play long neither, one turn and the attack on wien perhaps
[01:58] <Locutus> we didn't know what was inside, this is quite important (a 12-stack of pikemen/samurai and mounted archers will be unbeatable)
[01:59] <Tamerlin> Right...
[01:59] <Zaphod> what was the outcome of the poll?
[01:59] <Tamerlin> Attack Wien
[01:59] <Locutus> attack Wien. but that was more about moving units in Wien's direction than actually attacking the city...
[01:59] <Locutus> so suicide?
[01:59] <CoT> any suicide warriors about?
[02:00] <Locutus> one of the hoplites of Takers (7-stack) is damaged
[02:00] <Zaphod> shouldn't we suicide one turn later`? we can't attack full stack now. so they might be reinforced from the west in between
[02:00] <Tamerlin> I would attack directly, but suicide if you think it is better to...
[02:00] <Locutus> it was decided it could be used as suicide unit 2 chats ago, I think...
[02:00] <Tamerlin> We can attack with the full stack
[02:01] <CoT> better to have the INT than go in blind
[02:01] <Locutus> Tam: have 2 12-stacks plus 1 unit. why attack in the blind and risk loosing 24 units if we can suicide at no significant cost first?
[02:01] <CoT> as we have no retreat option
[02:01] <Tamerlin> So send a poor wounded Kamikaze
[02:01] <CoT> prudent
[02:01] <Zaphod> i agree, but i would do so next turn
[02:02] <Tamerlin> I don't like sending troops to the death like that...
[02:02] <CoT> but it is a glorious warriors death?
[02:02] <Locutus> zaphod: the sooner we know, the better - it might only be 2 units, in which case we can take the city now
[02:02] <Tamerlin> I don't think so, if the town is not well defended we can take it easily, if it is too strong our units would be more useful elsewhere
[02:02] <Zaphod> we have no warrior, only conscripted hoplites

[02:03] <Tamerlin> I agree with Locutus
[02:03] <Locutus> we decided in favour of a suicide. so I'll suicide the city now with the damaged hoplite...
[02:03] <Zaphod> shouldn't we use an archer then?
[02:03] <CoT> die well hoplite friend
[02:04] <Tamerlin> We don't have a wounded archer in stock...

[02:04] <Locutus> the city has 2 knights...
[02:04] <Locutus>

[02:04] <Locutus> we can take it

[02:04] <CoT> is that all?
[02:05] <Tamerlin> With one H left in our 6 units stack...
[02:05] <Zaphod> i don't think we will take it this turn
[02:05] <Tamerlin> I knew Wien was not well defended, ask Locutus...
[02:05] <Zaphod> bring in the full stack
[02:05] <Locutus> oh damn, wait... the only stack which can take it is 5a 1h...
[02:05] <Locutus> very risky

[02:05] <Zaphod> thats why i wanted to send the archer
[02:05] <CoT> supply problems?
[02:06] <Zaphod> 2h/4a is better then 1h/5a even if one of the h is slighlty wounded
[02:06] <Tamerlin> We should then move the 12 stack near Wien and attack next turn...
[02:06] <Zaphod> yep
[02:07] <CoT> still one and a half hoplites +archers might not have been enough against two knights.You need good front rank troops so the knights can't get you from the side
[02:07] <Locutus> indeed. let's move the Wienners W and the 12 stacks of 6 NE of Wien and attack next turn
[02:07] <Locutus> indeed: even with two warriors we couldn't have won: the city has 100% defense bonus plus city walls. only a 3/3 (or better) stack chould take it
[02:08] <Locutus> two hoplites, sorry
[02:08] <Locutus> so, moving the 3 attacking stacks now
[02:08] <Zaphod> combine the other stacks on the uranium?
[02:08] <CoT> i didn't do much(although i finished work), and i got to go guys - goodluck

[02:09] <Tamerlin> Bye
[02:09] * CoT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[02:09] <Locutus> yes.
[02:10] <Locutus> let's move through this turn quickly as I really need to go (but want to take Wien before I do so

)
[02:10] <Zaphod> ok
[02:10] <Tamerlin> Ok
[02:11] <Zaphod> orders for pw: spare all for the soon to be road to wien, unless we want to keep pw high which i doubt
[02:11] <Locutus> what to do with the 5 units south of Linz? The Barb fortified and is treathened by the Hebrew stack (which could threathen Linz next turn). I say move all 5 units back to the city and fortify
[02:11] <Zaphod> i agree
[02:11] <Tamerlin> We don't need to make all the moves on our comp, locutus do it on your computer and proceed quickly to the next turn
[02:11] <Locutus> indeed, move PW back to 20%, I say. objections?
[02:11] <Locutus> that's what I thought, Tam
[02:11] <Tamerlin> No, it is essential
[02:12] <Locutus> okay, PW back to 20%. 5 units back to Linz? (or 4 and scout with the warrior?)
[02:12] <Zaphod> well, im rather fond of 0 for a few turns and another rushbuy-pw80 trick, but 20 is fine as well
[02:13] <Tamerlin> Send the five units back to Linz
[02:14] <Locutus> checking out how PW affects production. 5 units back to linz. 1 entertainer in Pedrunn? (happiness 72)
[02:14] <Zaphod> yes
[02:14] <Zaphod> and expell those germans
[02:14] <Tamerlin> yes, I don't understand why it has suddenly fell down to 72...
[02:15] <Zaphod> pollution started in
[02:15] <Locutus> PW at 0 instead of 20 saves 1 turn for about half of our cities. I say we put it at 0
[02:15] <Locutus> neither do I, Tam...
[02:16] <Locutus> could be war discontent...
[02:16] <Tamerlin> Pollution, true, had not seen it...
[02:16] <Locutus> that's a good point too...
[02:16] <Locutus> can't expell germans: all out of range
[02:17] <Tamerlin> The one between CL and MP...

[02:17] <Locutus> that one moved S, to the mountains.
[02:17] <Locutus> we could chase it but I fear it would be a waste of time. let it go?
[02:17] <Locutus> another German settler in NW-NW of Pedrunn, which is NE-NE of Tripoli
[02:17] <Tamerlin> You have not placed the hoplites to the right place, in mine it could not because of the ZOC
[02:18] <Locutus> then maybe your settler was in a different location as I don't think I could have blocked it myself.
[02:18] <Locutus> anyway, moot point.
[02:19] <Tamerlin> Yes, go on
[02:19] <Zaphod> what about establishing a trade route?
[02:19] <Locutus> there's another German settler NW-NW of Pedrunnia, which is NE-NE of Tripoli
[02:20] <Locutus> however, there's also a german 12-stack nearby. I'll post a screenie of this to make it easier to decide what to do...
[02:20] <Zaphod> partially surround it

[02:20] <Zaphod> oops
[02:20] <Tamerlin> Send an Archer near him, the long range vision will help us chasing him
[02:22] <Locutus> screenie posted
[02:23] <Locutus> send tripoli to wombatoon? (has 2 units)
[02:23] <Tamerlin> Do you fear a German attack?
[02:23] <Zaphod> they cant take it this turn
[02:24] <Zaphod> let them stay in the middle
[02:24] <Locutus> okay, they stay. I guess that works. but it's a juicy target for them...
[02:24] <Tamerlin>

[02:24] <Locutus> what do we do about the settler?
[02:24] <Locutus> if anything?
[02:25] <Zaphod> id say nothing, no need to anger them
[02:25] <Locutus> I say do nothing
[02:25] <Locutus> okay, so we do nothing at all in that area
[02:25] <Tamerlin> The problem is that the Germans are setlling the last good spot in the far south...

[02:25] <Locutus> that's not a good spot at all...
[02:26] <Tamerlin> Right, moreover we are only delaying the settlements...
[02:26] <Locutus> unless you mean south of Linz and Maq, in which case I don't care for now...
[02:26] <Tamerlin> Let this settler...
[02:26] <Locutus> the other German settler is out of range - move the units back to their cities?
[02:27] <Zaphod> yep
[02:27] <Tamerlin> Yes I meant south of Linz and Maq
[02:27] <Tamerlin> Yes, move them back
[02:27] <Locutus> that's still far, far away Tam, we can intercept them long before that and we'll prolly be at war by the time it settles if we dont...
[02:28] <Tamerlin> OK
[02:28] <Locutus> mapfipolis just built an archer: the archer outside the city doesn't fit inside anymore.
[02:28] <Locutus> move the 2 units outside mapfipolis to pedrunnia?
[02:28] <Tamerlin> Send the new archer to the front
[02:28] <Tamerlin> Or Pedrunnia
[02:29] <Locutus> (hoplite in mapfipolis is done in 2 turns anyway)
[02:29] <Locutus> very well, moving both units to pedrunnia (we'll see what to do with it when it gets there...)
[02:29] <Tamerlin> ok
[02:30] <Locutus> move bait south again and goodsight west?
[02:30] <Zaphod> well, since mapfipolis has 12 units already, shoudln't we change to caravans or some buildings?
[02:30] <Locutus> zaph: I moved 2 units away from it, it has 11 units now
[02:30] <Zaphod> ok
[02:30] <Locutus> agreed on bait and GS?
[02:30] <Tamerlin> yes
[02:31] <Zaphod> i lost the situation, but i presume youre right
[02:31] <Locutus> bait ran into the german city of Magdenburg

(did anyone know there was a city down there?)
[02:32] <Tamerlin> We could have foreseen it if we look at the borders...
[02:32] <Tamerlin> Bad grammar... really bad...
[02:33] <Locutus> indeed, but it was still hard to see: lots of black in this area...
[02:33] <Tamerlin> Yep
[02:33] <Tamerlin> I have checked the cities, there seems to be nothing to add...
[02:33] <Locutus> doesn't matter now. samurai can now go east - that seems to be the safest path to Linz. agreed?
[02:34] <Zaphod> just go ahead, im tured
[02:34] <Zaphod> tired
[02:34] <Locutus> no, checked queues and entertainers already, all seems fine to me
[02:34] <Zaphod> how about a trade route?
[02:34] <Zaphod> we can build one for 50
[02:34] <Tamerlin> We don't have enough caravans
[02:34] <Locutus> fortify all the newly built units and end turn?
[02:34] <Locutus> no, not eough caravans yet
[02:34] <Tamerlin> Yes, and on to Wienn
[02:34] <Zaphod> ok
[02:35] <Locutus> indeed. fortifying and ending turn...
[02:35] <Zaphod> coffee linz->maq 50 gold one caravan
[02:35] <Zaphod> but lets wait after we got wien
[02:35] <Zaphod> i think they will need coffee
[02:36] <Tamerlin> Sorry, i had not seen it...

[02:36] <Locutus> a catapult from Wien bombarded us: they have more units in that city now (unknown how many)
[02:36] <Locutus> indians request map exchange. accept it?
[02:37] <Locutus> I say yes
[02:37] <Zaphod> of course
[02:37] <Tamerlin> They have rush bought a catapult, yes for the indians
[02:37] <Zaphod> so send in another suicide
[02:37] <Zaphod> no
[02:37] <Zaphod> was thinking about reinforcemtns, but they wouldn be able to bombard this turn
[02:37] <Zaphod> so it was a rushbiy
[02:38] <Zaphod> one more catapult is dangerous, but we will win
[02:38] <Tamerlin> I suppose it was...
[02:38] <Locutus> german stack approaches wombattoon, India conquered I Thai city, I think
[02:38] <Locutus> or they moved in units from elsewhere...
[02:38] <Zaphod> tropli to wombatoon
[02:39] <Locutus> indeed, a rush-buy, good point about bombardment
[02:39] <Locutus> started to research geography BTW
[02:39] <Locutus> attack Wien?
[02:39] <Zaphod> which of course doesn't guarantee, the didn't reinforve as well

[02:39] <Zaphod> get those bastards i wanna sleep
[02:39] <Locutus> indeed, there's a risk, but not a huge one (should have seen something if they reinforced...)
[02:40] <Locutus> tam, attack or poll?
[02:40] <Tamerlin> Attack, it has already been polled...

[02:40] <Locutus> if we're not unanimous I'll poll...

[02:40] <Locutus> okay, attacking

[02:40] <Tamerlin>

[02:41] <Zaphod> with the healthy stack
[02:41] <Locutus> one more point: use the damaged stack (1 almost dead archer) or the undamaged one?
[02:41] <Tamerlin> The undamaged one of course...

[02:41] <Locutus> I think we could risk the damaged one: would mean faster healing
[02:42] <Locutus> still the healthy one?
[02:42] <Tamerlin>

We risk loosing more units...
[02:42] <Zaphod> yep
[02:42] <Tamerlin> The healthy one...
[02:42] <Locutus>

oh well, the healthy one it is...
[02:42] <Tamerlin> Drummmmmmms....
[02:43] <Zaphod> in my game,losses:
[02:43] <Zaphod> .
[02:43] <Zaphod> .
[02:43] <Zaphod> .
[02:43] <Locutus> 1 hoplite dead, 2 wounded.
[02:43] <Zaphod> .
[02:43] <Zaphod> none
[02:43] <Locutus> extend empire?
[02:43] <Tamerlin>

yes
[02:43] <Zaphod> save, post, sleep
[02:43] <Tamerlin> I knew it, I knew it...
[02:44] <Locutus> okay. end chat?
[02:44] <Zaphod> yep
[02:44] <Tamerlin> You have invented a new abreviation Zaphod... SPS...
[02:44] <Tamerlin> Yes end...
[02:44] <Zaphod> lol
[02:44] <Locutus> BTW, I want to play in a non-chat way as well, if possible. so please gather orders for this turn ASAP (not tonight of course)
[02:44] <Tamerlin> OK
[02:44] <Tamerlin> Sorry guies I haven't been of great help tonight...

[02:44] <Zaphod> ok, if i will be elected
[02:45] <Locutus> indeed.
[02:45] <Locutus> well:
[02:45] <Tamerlin> yep...

[02:45] <Locutus> END OF CHAT

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 03:15

We only played 4 full turns and it took us:

75 mins for turn 1
60 mins for turn 2
90 mins for turn 3
45 mins for turn 4

We were having a hard time getting started (turn 1), had some delegate and other non-game related problems during turn 3 and went through turn 4 faster than usual, so normally we need about 1 hour/turn...

Ideally a chat should take 3-4 hours at most, so during my presidency expect to move 3-4 turns per chat and 2 chats per week. Hopefully I can play 1-2 turns between chats, bringing the total play time to 8-12 turns a week...

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 03:20

BTW, is there anything I forgot? Anyone need any more info/screens/etc?

Martin Gühmann · April 1, 2003, 13:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
We only played 4 full turns and it took us:

75 mins for turn 1
60 mins for turn 2
90 mins for turn 3
45 mins for turn 4

We were having a hard time getting started (turn 1), had some delegate and other non-game related problems during turn 3 and went through turn 4 faster than usual, so normally we need about 1 hour/turn...

Well looks like you weren't faster then I.

Usually the first turn was always the slowest in a chat.

So far it looks you did not forgot anything. Another question does the 600 pixel limit for images still exits for normal posters, because I saw you attaching images wider then 600 pixels.

-Martin

Locutus · April 1, 2003, 14:27

Actually, half the time I ended up waiting on Tamerlin and Zaphod rather than they on me. So I would like to think I was a wee bit faster

Quote:

So far it looks you did not forgot anything. Another question does the 600 pixel limit for images still exits for normal posters, because I saw you attaching images wider then 600 pixels.

It was apparently changed to 800. I wasn't aware of that until yesterday either...

Pedrunn · April 1, 2003, 20:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
It was apparently changed to 800. I wasn't aware of that until yesterday either...

It was!?!

This is awesome, The cities werent fitting in my pics of the ministery of Defense naymore.

Thanks Apolyton!

Frozzy · April 2, 2003, 01:16

Give a bone to those with shoddy 800 x 600 graphics cards

Martin Gühmann · April 5, 2003, 12:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
Actually, half the time I ended up waiting on Tamerlin and Zaphod rather than they on me. So I would like to think I was a wee bit faster

Well you are the president and responsible for the turn chat. So it is your task to hold and such a turn chat depends on discussion. So what really is slow is the discussion, actual a mayor part of democracy. So a president needs a lot of patience, that a president of a really big contry do not have, unfortunatly.

Actual it is not the job of the President to blame other people for their slowness, otherwise I could start... Actual not a good idea.

-Martin