Soviet Steel - Join In The Construction! - Page 3

curtsibling · April 6, 2003, 06:20

@EZRhino, I plan to have China as a unified nation, but not as strong as the USA, USSR or Europe.

Here is the map I am looking at...What do you think?

curtsibling · April 6, 2003, 06:21

Quote:

Originally posted by jim panse
Yeah, if you need help, just tell me ...

Wanna have a go at the civ flags?

If you want to...

jim panse · April 6, 2003, 09:02

Quote:

Wanna have a go at the civ flags?

Which ones do you need???? I made some US, USSR, UK, National China (I actually took Taiwan´s flag), PR China, 3 different types of German flags (depends on how you imagine your flags ... )

EZRhino · April 6, 2003, 17:58

I like the new map, but especially compared to the one you used for dictators, Europe is very small. If the main focus of the sceanario is the European theatre, it might not suit the scenario as well. The map isnt as distorted as ones used for most global scale ww2 scenarios, which means there is more new space in South America, and Africa, but less in Europe and Russia.

curtsibling · April 7, 2003, 07:09

I think I might use a heavily re-structured version of the D2MGE map, and keep the 'realworld' map for a later project!

curtsibling · April 7, 2003, 07:14

Quote:

Originally posted by jim panse

Which ones do you need???? I made some US, USSR, UK, National China (I actually took Taiwan´s flag), PR China, 3 different types of German flags (depends on how you imagine your flags ... )

Funky!
They are small but nice.

I think Euro-Nato will have all the one flag...
Britain-France-Germany-Italy-Spain are combined into one civ in this scenario...

I might just use a blue flag with the NATO crosshair in the middle.

But I will use a few of these as my guide!

jim panse · April 7, 2003, 07:28

Quote:

Originally posted by curtsibling

Funky!
They are small but nice.

I think Euro-Nato will have all the one flag...
Britain-France-Germany-Italy-Spain are combined into one civ in this scenario...

I might just use a blue flag with the NATO crosshair in the middle.

But I will use a few of these as my guide!

Just tell me if you want them larger or different ones ... Hey! I´m a student. I´ve lots of time ....

jim panse · April 7, 2003, 07:52

I added a Nato flag, you may find it useful.

The Apologist · April 7, 2003, 08:09

I recommend a lot of unrest (maybe even partisans) in the NATO camp. After all, their leaders cheated the Soviets at the end of WWII, having left the Russian people to do most of the fighting, prefering to negotiate with Fascists than stick with their allies! France and Italy would be particularly good candidates for 5th columns, Germany is a maybe.

I think that this is necessary, not just for verisimilitude, but also for game balance. Russia looks rather outmuscled and outmatched.

Considering the size of the "Red" camp, it'd probably be easier to make it just the one Civ, consisting of the Soviets + proxies. (It's conceivable that a lot of the countries that made up our timeline's Warsaw Pact became SSRs in Soviet Steel, anyway.)

You could use the extra civ slot for Japan...

jim panse · April 7, 2003, 08:33

Quote:

Originally posted by The Apologist
I recommend a lot of unrest (maybe even partisans) in the NATO camp. After all, their leaders cheated the Soviets at the end of WWII, having left the Russian people to do most of the fighting, prefering to negotiate with Fascists than stick with their allies! France and Italy would be particularly good candidates for 5th columns, Germany is a maybe.

I think that this is necessary, not just for verisimilitude, but also for game balance. Russia looks rather outmuscled and outmatched.

Considering the size of the "Red" camp, it'd probably be easier to make it just the one Civ, consisting of the Soviets + proxies. (It's conceivable that a lot of the countries that made up our timeline's Warsaw Pact became SSRs in Soviet Steel, anyway.)

You could use the extra civ slot for Japan...

I agree with this opinion. Stalim himself odered "his" fellow communist parties in Italy and France for example to gain the power without fighting out a civil war (like Greece where the USSR also stepped back from supporting the ELAS after 1945; Yugoslavia supported them, anyway); The communist parties of France and Italy were very strong but Stalin didn´t want them to be to agressive knowing that WW2 saw more than 13 million dead/missing Russian soldiers and Stalin also knew that he hadn´t survived the German assault without the USA [Germany invaded hte USSR in 1941 with approx. 3200 planes, 3000 tanks and 600.000 vehicles. During half a year in 1942 the US lent the USSR about 3000 planes, 3000 armored vehicles and 600.000 vehicles.]

In post-war Germany Communism had no real chance but the far-right was not as weak as today back in the 1940ies. Also a lot of former Wehrmacht officers including Gen. Blumentritt and Field Marshal von Manstein helped building up the Bundeswehr. And do not forget that the SHAPE planners not only ordered 30 German divisions for the defense of Western Europe but also looked that the rest of the NATO has a slight superiority over the newly formed German army. To be prepared for every opportunity .....

IMHO you should also think about Austria. Which ways the post-war history could have unfolded with e.g. the Berlin Crisis in 1948 lead to some partition in Austria too. Would there have been two "Austrian" States? Or would the promised independence be swept away by the rising conflict between the West and the East and Austria again become the Eastfold of (West-) Germany?
[This I mentioned not only because I´m an Austrian but because the main reason for the (neutral) Austria today is that Austria (and - of course - Switzerland are some kind of "Neutral Roadblock" in Central Europe. There were also detailed plans from both military organisations (NATO, Warsaw Pact) to ignore the Austrian Neutrality in the case of war ....]

Also do not neglect the importance of the US step-back in Korea. The US military would have won if the US policy would have supported this course. US Recon saw the Chinese armies North of the Yalu but the Air Force wasn´t allowed to crush them ....
The credibility of the US wasn´t that badly hurt as it was after the withdrawal from Vietnam.

And the last point now to add: To create even more tensions you may want the US to intervene in the "Indochina War" of France. The French Defense Ministry asked for US air support but the US didn´t want to get involved. The French told the US that "... (we) are defending the West in Indochina too ...."
You may use this also as some kind of trigger to create HUGE tension between the US and the USSR ....

That´s it for now, regards

curtsibling · April 7, 2003, 11:29

Guys!

Some nice persepctives there!
Some very intriquing avenues for me to explore...

And worry not, the Red armies will have many tools at their disposal to confound the capitalists!
Soviet partisan activities will be a major factor in this global challenge.

The guerillas cause mayhem, and are followed by the paratroops and armour of the USSR in earnest!
I like the idea of a shaky and unsure NATO...to start with.
The Russians will have a good chance to win at the start...
But NATO will act fast once war begins for real!

As the USSR, you might even be able to collapse the unjust US/European NATO alliance...

The WW3 does not have to kick off immediately...
Although cold war crisis after crisis may light the powder keg...

The trick in Soviet Steel is to hamstring your rival hegemony by destroying it's attempts to influence the neutral or rouge states.

Also I will be giving the Korean battles and other places the coverage they deserve...
The option of crushing your rival's meddling attempts to spread it's power is up to you...

This may or not lead to full scale conflict...
But conquering the wrong city will catapult a global war!

The idea of me having the two super powers with smaller satellites is to represent a worldwide struggle in all continents, as two ideologies slug it out...

As either power you can send fleets around the world, with a mission to crush these global 'trouble' areas.

Just don't forget the main goal!
Victory for your hegemony and philosophy!

curtsibling · April 10, 2003, 16:33

PROGRESS UPDATE!

Been working on units and cities, should have them done at the weekend...

Then it is onto rules, then the map (the big task!)

For now here is a map showing the balance of powers in spring 1950...

curtsibling · April 10, 2003, 16:35

And inspired by Jim's superb idea, here are the city flags!

jim panse · April 10, 2003, 18:15

I like your flags, Curt.

Iron Chancellor · April 10, 2003, 19:03

I like the Black Soviet flag, but I can't imagine the Russians abandoning Marx's favorite color.

So, is Austria to be divided? It depends on how your version of alternate history plays out. Seeing as Germany didn't lose, it may have held its August 1939 borders, less some of East Prussia, perhaps, or maybe Sudetenland.

academia · April 10, 2003, 22:04

Mmm... Argentina part of Euro/NATO in 1950???
Our president wasn´t pro-western capitalist in that time. I suggest you to make argentina neutral

Another topic:
I don´t understan why Venezuela, part of Colombia
and it seems that Guayana, French Guyana and Surinam are under the influence of Warsaw Pact??

The only southamerican state under soviet influence during the coldwar was Peru. Some uprisings in Bolivia and Allende in Chile.
That´s all i remember right now.

EZRhino · April 11, 2003, 01:32

He's right. In 1950 the political dynamic was completely different. Communist insurgencies had'nt yet sprung up in places such as Nicaragua, or Colombia. Indochina was still a French colony, for that matter. The Philipenes and Japan were still under U.S. occupational Government. Hianan was still a nationalist stronghold. Iceland was part of Nato; Somalia didnt become a Communist enclave untill the late 70's. And without Communist Chinese support, the N.Korean reigme may have collapsed under its own weight.

Edit: But, on the other hand, since the timespan of this scenario is pretty long, Curt's gonna have to make allowences for the sake of gameplay. And its an alt.history scenario anyway.

Henrik · April 11, 2003, 01:36

I like the swedish flag for the neutrals

However doesnt it seem strange that Sweden itself is part of the Euro nato, while her flag flies over a lot of other countries?
Would this be the effect of some secret swedish imperialist influence which is also part of the alternative history scenario?

ravagon · April 11, 2003, 02:44

Quote:

Originally posted by academia
Mmm... Argentina part of Euro/NATO in 1950???
Our president wasn´t pro-western capitalist in that time. I suggest you to make argentina neutral

IIRC Argentina was pretty Pro-axis/fascist during the war?
If Axis-Germany (or its remnants) are now US/Nato then Argentina may have followed suit depending on the exact course of the latter stages of the war.

Quote:

Would this be the effect of some secret swedish imperialist influence which is also part of the alternative history scenario?

I'm guessing yes? (Although then its probably not quite so "alternative"

)

our_man · April 11, 2003, 05:20

If you're not planning to have WW3 kick off immediately Curt, but instead plan to base it depending on the capture of certain cities by either side, here's an idea you might consider.

First of all don't use the citycapture event to be the trigger - instead create a 'trigger' unit in a particular city (e.g. Havana) that, if destroyed ("unitkilled"), triggers the "makeaggression" event. Make them non-moving air units to prevent the AI from transporting them out of the city. You can then place these in as many cities as you want, greatly saving on event space.

It gets better - here's the beautiful part.

It involves using probably the most neglected trick in scenario design - multiple possible variations on the starting position of units using the .alt file. Create several different copies of the scenario, each one with the trigger units located in different cities. In this way the Americans capturing Havana might trigger a war with the Warsaw Pact, or it might, not depending on whether this particular scenario version has a trigger unit in Havana. As the player does not know what .alt file he is playing, he will be unable to predict which city captured will start WW3!

Good examples of .alt scenarios are Microproses "Jules Verne" and techumsehs "Russian Civil War"

A more complicated and realistic version of this would be to have two trigger units placed in different cities. Each one by itself would not be enough to trigger a war, but when killed would give the opposing player a particular technology via events e.g. "Brink of War 1". Killing the other trigger would give the advance "Brink of War 2". These would be the prerequisites for a "Declaration of War" advance which the player could then research. By giving this tech a high AI value the computer could be made research it. Of course, against a human opponent there would be more discretion - choosing whether to go to war by researching this or not.

Iron Chancellor · April 11, 2003, 08:50

Also, South Africa was still like by the West in 1950. IIRC, it wasn't till the 1980's that it came to be considered a "rogue" nation

Palaiologos · April 11, 2003, 17:54

Quote:

Originally posted by jim panse
like Greece where the USSR also stepped back from supporting the ELAS after 1945; Yugoslavia supported them, anyway

The only reason that the Yugoslavians supported them was that the traitorus communist leadership had promised their slavic brethen in Greece an "independant"(Yugoslavian vassal) Macedonia.

Fortunately after the 1944-49 war all these slavs in Greece were "repatriated" in Yugoslavia.
They formed a state with an expiry date called FYROM.

On topic:

Keep in mind that Turkey played a prominent role during the cold war, being the only NATO ally to have common borders with the Soviet Union.

They received huge aid by the USA.

FiGu · April 12, 2003, 03:03

hmm.. why is Finland under Soviet control??

EmuGod · April 12, 2003, 14:10

Maybe in this alternatve history the USSR won the Russo-Finnish war and has established the Democratic Republic of Finland it was planning during that war....

Palaiologos · April 12, 2003, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by EmuGod
Maybe in this alternatve history the USSR won the Russo-Finnish war and has established the Democratic Republic of Finland it was planning during that war....

Er....

USSR won the Russo-Finnish war(all of them) in our own history as well.

curtsibling · April 14, 2003, 15:13

Hi guys!

Worry not, this map is v1.0 and will change!

Feel free to grab it, change it, and then repost it!

In fact, I would appreciate if someone could help me by doing that!

If y'all have wondered where I have been, worry not!
Curt is on the job and working on CIV2 graphics for Soviet Steel and fixing up D2MGE open season.

I am still doing the duty, even when I am not posting!

curtsibling · April 14, 2003, 15:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Palaiologos

Er....

USSR won the Russo-Finnish war(all of them) in our own history as well.

Pericles, you got it in one!

curtsibling · April 14, 2003, 15:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Palaiologos On topic:

Keep in mind that Turkey played a prominent role during the cold war, being the only NATO ally to have common borders with the Soviet Union.

They received huge aid by the USA.

I plan to put Turkey in NATO command!

curtsibling · April 14, 2003, 15:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron Chancellor
Also, South Africa was still like by the West in 1950. IIRC, it wasn't till the 1980's that it came to be considered a "rogue" nation

Some parts of Africa will be a hotbed of intrique and rebellion in this scenario!

FiGu · April 14, 2003, 15:39

you should put Finland neutral in this scenario. it was first later that they signed with the russians a military alliance.