Taking it a little too far - Page 5

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 02:49

Yes, very much so. Do most Americans really want to go there?

Where is that EU membership application?

LoneWolf · April 5, 2003, 03:33

Sorry, I don't follow.
BTW, I'm sure that you can find many, many Americans that are even more anti-American than you are, if that is your point. It is part of the crippling side of having a free society.

Drake Tungsten · April 5, 2003, 03:33

Canada hasn't done anything to become America's adversary. The French, on the other hand...

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 03:40

Quote:

Originally posted by LoneWolf
Sorry, I don't follow.

I didn't think you would.

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 03:41

Quote:

Originally posted by LoneWolf
BTW, I'm sure that you can find many, many Americans that are even more anti-American than you are, if that is your point.

Someone is bound to frame this.

LoneWolf · April 5, 2003, 03:45

I see, you would rather talk with Americans who agree with you. Yes, as I say, these should be easy to find. Sorry, I thought you wanted a discussion, not intellectual masturbation.
Can someone help this guy out?

Drake Tungsten · April 5, 2003, 03:49

Quote:

Someone is bound to frame this.

You just can't win, can you NYE?

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 03:55

No. I'd rather talk to Americans who do not expect that 'my country right or wrong' applies to foreign nations.

The Mad Monk · April 5, 2003, 04:41

Can I call DL?

Can I, please?

NeOmega · April 5, 2003, 05:37

All kids should hear their country sucks when it enters an aggressive war.

That way they'll grow up understanding what world opinion is and means.

I hope more Americans hear and get the message....

America sucks.

KrazyHorse · April 5, 2003, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by LoneWolf

As to the first question, yes, that's why our cowards went there. As to the second, shamefully yes, the Democrats were in charge then.

This has to be a troll. Your Democratic president was basically the only one in the US who wanted to go to war.

Cyclotron · April 5, 2003, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by NeOmega
All kids should hear their country sucks when it enters an aggressive war.

That way they'll grow up understanding what world opinion is and means.

I hope more Americans hear and get the message....

America sucks.

But we don't. You do.

Honestly, anybody who thinks that "you suck" solves any sort of serious problems is, in fact, a blithering idiot.

KrazyHorse · April 5, 2003, 17:40

Quote:

But we don't. You do

He's an American

Ted Striker · April 5, 2003, 17:47

I think the article made it sound much worse than it actually was.

Also some of the events that occured were just things happening on the side, and not directed towards the visiting kids, the way the article made it sound.

You can see this sort of spin when the article used the phrase, "appeasement march," and then also it used the word, "horrified," several times for drama.

Agathon · April 5, 2003, 17:49

This is so lame. Last year the New York Islanders' fans booed the Canadian National Anthem purely because the Toronto Maple Leafs had had the impertinence to beat them in a hotly contested hockey game. I doubt this created a stir in the US.

When the US defies the international community and prosecutes what may well turn out to be an illegal war of agression, some Canadians boo the US National Anthem. They got pilloried in the press for it and steps have been taken at hockey games to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I am old enough to remember when the South African rugby team toured New Zealand in defiance of an international agreement not to play sport with that country because of apartheid. Demonstrators followed the team around and made their presence known quite loudly.

Ask yourself these questions: would you have stood up and cheered the South African National Anthem whilst that government was committed to apartheid? Would you have stood up to cheer the Horst Wessel song if a German team had visited your country in the late 30s?

Perhaps booing is going too far. I personally have been sitting down and staying silent during the US National Anthem (last time at a Raptors game in the company of an American who did the same) - that may annoy some people, but there is no way I am going to cheer the anthem of a country which is prosecuting what I consider to be an evil war.

I'm not boycotting American products either. I don't see how my punishing American workers or small business owners will help stop war and it isn't the average American's fault that the war is taking place. Nor is yelling at Americans in the street or calling them names helping anything. Perhaps they could do the same for us.

Agathon · April 5, 2003, 17:51

A further note:

I manifested the same attitude to the French for years because they committed a murderous terrorist attack against my country.* So it isn't just anti-Americanism.

* [edit] And brought their damn nukes down to our part of the world to test.

NeOmega · April 5, 2003, 17:58

Quote:

I'm not boycotting American products either. I don't see it isn't the average American's fault that the war is taking place.

Actually it is, 7 out of 10 average Americans support the effort. It is/was the Average American's responsibility to stop this war, however the Average American supports it.

Agathon · April 5, 2003, 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by NeOmega

Actually it is, 7 out of 10 average Americans support the effort. It is/was the Average American's responsibility to stop this war, however the Average American supports it.

You know, since I can't effect my boycott at just those who support the war and I know that a lot of the war supporters are delusional (for example about half the population believes that SH was responsible for 911 and more than he is connected with Al Quaeda - both ridiculous and unproved assertions) I don't want to indiscriminately boycott US goods.

I hate Bush and his mates and I despair at the patriotic idiocy displayed by many Americans, but that doesn't mean that I think they are, at root, utterly evil people.

NeOmega · April 5, 2003, 18:13

not evil, just too arrogant to believe they can be wrong, and too powerful to be stopped.

In Vietnam it seems we almost for a moment believed we could be wrong, because we lost......

But this war will go down in American history as a great moment and George Bush will be celebrated as a great leader, because we will "win". Only if we start to "lose" will American opinion and history begin to ponder the wisdom of our actions.

So what am I saying..... please do boycott American products. America needs to learn the value of world opinion.

Just like most Iraqis killed did not love Saddam Hussein, yet they all payed for his crimes, with their lives. It's not like it is going to hurt Americans to pay out of their pocket book. Just means one less SUV in the garage for a couple of years.

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 18:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I think the article made it sound much worse than it actually was.

Also some of the events that occured were just things happening on the side, and not directed towards the visiting kids, the way the article made it sound.

You can see this sort of spin when the article used the phrase, "appeasement march," and then also it used the word, "horrified," several times for drama.

The newsmax article is based on events widely reported in Canada. In fact the reference to the Globe and Mail is in their piece. But yes, I think they have ratcheted it up a notch or two.

The fact remains though that a bunch of people, on both sides of the border, are behaving like chimps. In this case, the targets of some of the morons was a bunch of children. That is way beyond the bounds of simple idiocy, and deserves condemnation.

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 18:26

Quote:

Originally posted by NeOmega
Just like most Iraqis killed did not love Saddam Hussein, yet they all payed for his crimes, with their lives. It's not like it is going to hurt Americans to pay out of their pocket book. Just means one less SUV in the garage for a couple of years.

Many of the the parts for your SUVs are made in Canada. In fact, many of the assembly lines for your auto industry are in Canada.

A large share of the video chipsets in your computers are products of Canadian companies. Just as a large amount of the infrastructure for your telecommunications system is designed and produced by Canadians.

The products produced by your industries are often made from raw materials extracted in Canada. The house you live in most likely has lumber from Canadian forests.

The list is a lot longer than I have mentioned. Boycotts across the 49th parallel would indeed be a case of cutting off noses while we stare at each other as if peering into a mirror.

Cyclotron · April 5, 2003, 19:31

Quote:

Originally posted by NeOmega
Actually it is, 7 out of 10 average Americans support the effort. It is/was the Average American's responsibility to stop this war, however the Average American supports it.

Why is it our responsibility to stop this war? You act as if it is objectively wrong or something. You forget that 7 out of 10 actually find it neccessary.

NeOmega · April 5, 2003, 19:32

I watched an inerview on O'Reilly, and the kids said they lost big time. Sounds like sour grapes to me..... in fact toward the end it seemed the kids started to try and say what they wanted... the referees were kind of in favor of the Canadians, even though the kids couldn't quite say anything that sounded like definite anti-Americanism out of the referee's mouth.

Sore loser coach trying to bash canadians for typical sports trash talking.

Chemical Ollie · April 5, 2003, 19:46

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7

Why is it our responsibility to stop this war? You act as if it is objectively wrong or something. You forget that 7 out of 10 actually find it neccessary.

Do you mean 7 out of 10 in the world? Or 7 out of 10 in Bagdhad? Or 7 out of 10 in the redneck trailer park?

NeOmega · April 5, 2003, 20:37

Quote:

The list is a lot longer than I have mentioned. Boycotts across the 49th parallel would indeed be a case of cutting off noses while we stare at each other as if peering into a mirror.

America does not have the moral clarity or pocket book control to impose any kind of boycott. Many pro-war Americans don't even recognize how pissed off the world really is. The boycott would be one way, I assure you, until a severe depression sets in America.

I agree, and believe the best diplomacy is trade, and wealth is generated from free trade. I also believe the beauty of the capitalist system is you don't have to buy most of the products if you do not like the actions of the producers.

notyoueither · April 5, 2003, 23:24

NeO, we are the producers of much of the stuff that we buy back from the US, and vice versa. That's the point. Canadians boycotting US goods would be like boycotting ourselves.

Cyclotron · April 5, 2003, 23:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre
Do you mean 7 out of 10 in the world? Or 7 out of 10 in Bagdhad? Or 7 out of 10 in the redneck trailer park?

Did you read the quote I was referring to? Or have you lost 7 out of 10 brain cells?

NeOmega · April 6, 2003, 02:01

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
NeO, we are the producers of much of the stuff that we buy back from the US, and vice versa. That's the point. Canadians boycotting US goods would be like boycotting ourselves.

Of course, boycotts, like tariffs and embargos, are always harmful to both sides in the long run.

Uncle Sparky · April 6, 2003, 16:16

Quebec = Texas

The views expressed there do not necessarily represent Canadians as a whole.

More extreme (generally left wing) views are held in Quebec, just as more extreme right wing views are held in Texas.

For whatever bizarre reason, Canadians frequently elect PMs from Quebec, and lately Americans elect Presidents from Texas...

Of course if the parents in the article had simply told their children "The protesters aren't against us, per se. They are against our nation's policy of slaughtering families like ours in foreign nations." the children wouldn't have been as traumatized.

flash9286 · April 6, 2003, 17:34

Quote:

And that bit at the end is a bit... over the top. flash is an instigator, hense his choice of quotes, I would guess.

I copied it as a whole. Please explain what u mean by this post.