Yang the MONSTER!!! - Page 2

Sikander · April 13, 2003, 19:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Frankychan
Hmmm......to address the Social Engineering comments...

Does running Wealth have greater benefits than running Knowledge?

I tend to have Police State/Planned (Growth when mindworm attacks become unbearable)/Knowledge. Usually I'm allied with Zak and running Knowledge just cements our pact. When I choose Wealth, everyone seems to pick on me up to the point where I have to switch.

I know Knowledge does have the probe problem, but that's why I usually beeline research to the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm SP. Is that o.k. or is there an easier way?

The big advantage for running Wealth as Yang is that it almost entirely negates the effects of his negative economy rating. You go from -1 energy per base to -1 energy in your headquarters base, which is a very useful difference. Of course the bonus to industry is also useful. The negatives are bad morale, which isn't that bad for expansion and building infrastructure, but can be a killer when you throw down against the other factions.

Knowledge isn't as good as it seems for Yang, because one of its advantages, increased efficiency, doesn't do anything for Yang if he is running Police / Planned. He is already being treated as though his efficiency rating is zero, so reducing it from -4 to -3 is really no help. This leaves Knowledge as a balance of bonuses to research vs negatives to probe. I rarely find this a difficult choice, but against Wealth I prefer Wealth unless at war or preparing for it.

Frankychan · April 13, 2003, 21:21

thanks Sikander.

I tend to run Knowledge to gain a leg-up on the other factions in terms of military hardware and options for building SP's that they might not be able to make. But since Wealth seems to make more $$$ it sounds like a good switch.

Unfortunately, I keep my faction on a constant war footing, so running Wealth doesn't seem like a good choice afterall.

CEO Aaron · April 13, 2003, 21:43

My advice is to try being more flexible with your SE choices, and give wealth a chance. Early on, before you're ready to roll out your war machine is where it serves you best, and where the extra base square energy will make the most difference. The extra industry is a HUGE boon, and if you're not building front line combat units _right now_, then the morale penalty is fairly forgetable. Once you're up to a tech level where you're ready to show your enemies some pain, then go ahead and switch out to knowledge, then start cranking out your army.

Frankychan · April 13, 2003, 22:43

Quote:

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
My advice is to try being more flexible with your SE choices, and give wealth a chance. Early on, before you're ready to roll out your war machine is where it serves you best, and where the extra base square energy will make the most difference. The extra industry is a HUGE boon, and if you're not building front line combat units _right now_, then the morale penalty is fairly forgetable. Once you're up to a tech level where you're ready to show your enemies some pain, then go ahead and switch out to knowledge, then start cranking out your army.

Thanks for the advice! I'll try this new approach out and see what come up.

HolyWarrior · April 21, 2003, 00:13

Quote:

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
AI Yang is always strong because the AI is horrible at running builder factions, often running itself out of minerals through outrageous support requirements, basically painting itself into a corner through upkeep on 10,000 infantry scouts.

Frankly, I think the lack of efficiency penalties for Yang's planned police state are GROSSLY overpowered. Were I to rewrite the game, I'd merely halve the penalty for them, so they could run planned police at only -2 efficency instead of -4.

Or play it the original way out of the box, with the penalties intact. In any of my games, the commie bastard must die.

Alinestra Covelia · April 21, 2003, 00:28

You must be talking about the aliens, then. They're the ones who want to run Planned societies, not Yang.

Yang just wants Police State politics. This makes him a dictator, not a Communist. The two are very different things.

Nobody would accuse John Ashcroft of communist aspirations, for example...

And the Hive out of the box have no Efficiency penalty in SMAX or PP. This makes them one of most powerful factions in the game.

Frankychan · April 21, 2003, 04:21

I tried running Wealth and I'm pretty surprised. I downloaded the patch and it makes a BIG difference in my gameplay!

I finally have credits to spend!...that's a first! I also tried switching back to Knowledge and it kinda sucked.

Thanks a lot Sikes.

Lazerus · April 21, 2003, 07:50

You never ran wealth ? ouch that must have hurt, the increase in industry alone for times when im not at war is worth the 40 credits ... +3 industry !
and then the advantage of having that economy disadvantage almost removed as sikander said.
Even when i am at war i tend to keep wealth running and just get a SP like the command nexus or cyborg factory to counter the negative effects of this so my production is like an assembly line with each base knocking a unit out in 2-3 turns.

Frankychan · April 23, 2003, 19:47

no, I had the ooold skool version where the Hive still had the negative Efficiency. Now that I got the patch, it's all good.

Lazerus · April 24, 2003, 08:33

Just finished an IP game playing as the Hive. Morgan and Miriam (other 2 players) had a massive war early on stuntning their growth (ended in a stalemate, they then pacted), while i went around and killed aki, caretakers, pirates and santiago. Then near the end to speed things up i disbanded around 100+ formers and went and nuked them two on their continent

funny game, especially seeing miriam leading in tech half way through the game then seeing myself jump to a tech every 2 turns with specialists, around treble the rate of them both together.

Ned · April 24, 2003, 14:33

I believe of all the opponents in the game, Yang is the most dangerous earlier opponent there is, particularly if Tech Steal is in the game. I remember more than one long protracted war against Yang.

He does seem to have a blind spot though. I am always eventually able to defeat Yang because he eventually builds artillery and infantry with no defensive armor. These are easy to defeat, even if he has fusion power and you did not.

Earwicker · April 25, 2003, 15:57

Just finished a game as Yang in which I ran Police/Planned/Weath as soon as I got the techs, and never really changed. No reason to when you can build morale boosters (either CN, CF, or a bunch of CC's/ Bio's if for some reason you miss out). The only compelling switch would be to Power (post-vats) in a tough war but really but the extra industry boost pushes Yang through the roof!