Meanwhile, back in Afganistan...

Rufus T. Firefly · April 9, 2003, 03:52

A news story I saw yesterday (not this one) quoted a soldier in Iraq as wanting to take Baghdad and "begin getting some revenge for 9/11"; the same story cited a recent poll in which 42% of Americans believe Sadaam was responsible for the Twin Tower attacks.

We might then reasonably ask, "Hey, wait a minute, didn't we used to hate some other guys because of their role in 9/11? Didn't we go in and change their regime? What ever happened to them?" Read on, MacDuff...

Quote:

Taliban resurges, reviving organization

04/08/03

Kathy Gannon
Associated Press

Kandahar, Afghanistan

- Before executing the International Red Cross worker, the Taliban gunmen made a satellite telephone call to their superior for instructions: Kill him?

Kill him, the order came back, and Ricardo Munguia, whose body was found with 20 bullet wounds last month, became the first foreign aid worker to die in Afghanistan since the Taliban's ouster from power 18 months ago.

The manner of his death suggests the Taliban is not only determined to remain a force in this country, but also is reorganizing and reviving its command structure.

There is little to stop them. The soldiers and police who were supposed to be the bedrock of a stable postwar Afghanistan have gone unpaid for months and are drifting away.

At a time when the United States is promising a reconstructed democratic postwar Iraq, many Afghans are remembering hearing similar promises not long ago.

Instead, what they see is thieving warlords, murder on the roads, and a resurgence of Taliban vigilantism.

"It's like I am seeing the same movie twice and no one is trying to fix the problem," said Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of Afghanistan's president and his representative in southern Kandahar.

"What was promised to Afghans with the collapse of the Taliban was a new life of hope and change. But what was delivered? Nothing. Everyone is back in business."

Karzai said reconstruction has been painfully slow - a canal repaired, a piece of city road paved, a small school rebuilt.

But progress also is a question of perspective. Capt. Trish Morris, spokeswoman for the Coalition Joint Civil-Military Operations Task Force, said civil affairs teams have spent up to $13 million on projects affecting the daily lives of Afghans.

"That may not sound like a lot of money, but that's hundreds of schools and clinics and bridges and wells all over Afghanistan," Morris said in Kabul.

From safe havens in neighboring Pakistan, aided by militant Muslim groups there, the Taliban launched their revival to coincide with the war in Iraq and capitalize on Muslim anger over the U.S. invasion, say Afghan officials.

Karzai said the Taliban are allied with rebel commander Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, supported by Pakistan and financed by militant Arabs. The attacks have targeted foreigners, and the threats have been directed toward Afghans working for international organizations.

In the latest killing in southern Afghanistan, gunmen on Thursday shot to death Haji Gilani, a close Karzai ally, in southern Uruzgan province. Gilani was one of the first people to shelter Karzai when he secretly entered Afghanistan to foment a rebellion against the Taliban in late 2001.

International workers in Kandahar don't feel safe and some have been moved from the Kandahar region to safer areas, said John Oerum, southwest security officer for the United Nations. But Oerum is trying to find a way to stay in southern Afghanistan.

To abandon it would be to let the rebel forces win, he says.

The Red Cross, with 150 foreign workers in Afghanistan, has suspended operations indefinitely.

One begins to get the feeling that, while Bush himself is supposedly dyslexic, the whole damned administration has Attention Deficit Disorder Syndrome...

curtsibling · April 9, 2003, 03:55

As I always said...
Iraq is a sideshow to the real problem.

It's the WW2 "Hit them where they aren't" doctrine, taken to the worst degree...

Afghanistan is still chaotic...
But all he mugs watching the CNN and FOX think the fairy tale has ended there.

On the contrary, it is a festering sore waiting to burst over the west...Again.

Frankychan · April 9, 2003, 03:58

The crappy thing is that the average American is looking to blame the military and all the organizations (FBI, CIA, etc) when it's the administration to blame.

It's like moving on to the next project without finishing the one you have on hand...

MichaeltheGreat · April 9, 2003, 04:01

Troll mode: All that rebuilding crap is just the sales pitch to go knock 'em on the head. Let 'em rebuild their own country. It's not our problem. /end troll

We couldn't afford to properly fund fixing Afghanistan and at the same time have our splendid little 80 billion for the first month war in Iraq, so the Afghanis got shoved to the back burner.

red_jon · April 9, 2003, 04:05

Quote:

"Hey, wait a minute, didn't we used to hate some other guys because of their role in 9/11?

Sometimes it's Eurasia sometimes it's Eastasia...

VJ · April 9, 2003, 04:59

United States funded Al Qaeda openly. Saddam Hussein opposed it openly. Great, great stuff, guys! Keep up the good work!

Quote:

Sometimes it's Eurasia sometimes it's Eastasia...

Neither Iraq nor Afganistan is in Eurasia or east-Asia.

Quote:

the same story cited a recent poll in which 42% of Americans believe Sadaam was responsible for the Twin Tower attacks.

I know some youngsters from my school who believe that 95% of US Citizens are fat-ass, WWF-watching morons who drive SUV's and don't care a **** from the foreign world. With news like this coming from the other side of Atlantic, I'm fearing that the number of these ignorant ones will continue growing radically.

[OT of OT: After the majority believes that he was responsible, you can move to the step 3. Sorry, it's hard to avoid sarcasm in such absurd moments as this.]

Zevico · April 9, 2003, 05:22

Tuomerhu-
Saddam Hussein is affiliated with Fundy groups against America. So yes, he no doubt provided funds (and at the very least a blind eye) to Al Qaida, and thus helped out with 9/11.
Your next statement is a partial truth. He ordered their deaths, he did not do so himself. And I don't think it was with anthrax.
(3) While some Arab leaders have had a 'harem' type thing during the modern era, Saddam has not (although he has had mistresses)
(4) Saddam is none of those. And your sentence makes no grammatical sense, either.
(5) Proof, please?
[Note-this is in regards to your reply and your signature as well]

VJ · April 9, 2003, 05:35

Most of my signature is currently sarcasm, I was inspired by this.
I'll copy/paste part of my sig to here, because I'll probably edit it in the future:

Quote:

REASONS FOR WAR : (1) Saddam Hussein is responsible from 9/11 - (2) Hussein, single-handedly killed about 20 000 innocent kurds, with evil anthrax, a WMD - (3) Hussein has a harem, consisting of drugged virgin teens - (4) Hussein is a satan's messenger, son of Hitler, who we are driving from this world, with the help of our glorius leader and God - (5) Hussein eat's little babies, after molesting them.

Quote:

Saddam Hussein is affiliated with Fundy groups against America. So yes, he no doubt provided funds (and at the very least a blind eye) to Al Qaida, and thus helped out with 9/11.

Source? Considering that Hussein is almost the only non-religious leader in the whole ME-area, and he was against Taleban in the conferences of Arabi-league during the 90's, I find this hard to believe.

MarkG · April 9, 2003, 05:40

i think the afganistan reconstruction plan was 5bil for 3 years

hardly a big amount (compared to the iraq thing)

Urban Ranger · April 9, 2003, 05:42

Just as I thought. The W. admin is predictable.

Skanky Burns · April 9, 2003, 05:47

And the US government wonders why the majority of the world is cynical as to their motives...

Urban Ranger · April 9, 2003, 05:53

Maybe they hope we forget, but we keep watching.

Caesar the Great · April 9, 2003, 07:49

rebuilding iraq ----> cheap oil

rebuilding afgan ----> cheap opium

i'd think bush would support spending lots of money to rebuild afganistan?

Urban Ranger · April 9, 2003, 11:29

Get lots of cheap opium to flood the market, thus defeating the Columbia drug lords at their game.

DinoDoc · April 9, 2003, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
i think the afganistan reconstruction plan was 5bil for 3 years

A good question you could ask at this point is, "Where is the money from the rest of the international community?" Reconstructing Afghanistan was never meant to be a US only affair.

My Wife Hates CIV · April 9, 2003, 11:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
And the US government wonders why the majority of the world is cynical as to their motives...

Like this was not the case 12 months ago. or anytime for that matter. please.

Kontiki · April 9, 2003, 11:42

You can't expect to turn Afghanistan into a prosperous democracy overnight. You first have to let it desolve back into a bunch of warlord-controlled mini-fiefdoms with a central government that doesn't even have full authority over the capital. Then, after years of neglect, everything will be super.

VJ · April 9, 2003, 11:52

Quote:

A good question you could ask at this point is, "Where is the money from the rest of the international community?" Reconstructing Afghanistan was never meant to be a US only affair.

Who gave most of the aid to Afganistan?

DinoDoc · April 9, 2003, 11:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu
Who gave most of the aid to Afganistan?

Definately not Finland. Greedy bastards!

VJ · April 9, 2003, 12:05

My friend, my friend. You weren't pulling that argument out of the wind, were you?

VJ · April 9, 2003, 12:06

Quote:

Reconstructing Afghanistan was never meant to be a US only affair.

Some facts would be pretty nice for a change, DD. If you don't know anything, admit it. Otherwise, give me some reference, will you?

DinoDoc · April 9, 2003, 12:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu
My friend, my friend. You weren't pulling that argument out of the wind, were you?

No. I was hoping that you would be more specific (names & $ amounts) rather than being purposefully enigmatic.

General Ludd · April 9, 2003, 12:08

Quote:

Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV

Like this was not the case 12 months ago. or anytime for that matter. please.

The USA has been doing this crap for alot longer then 12 months. More around 60 years.

VJ · April 9, 2003, 12:11

You see, IIRC, EU paid the most €€€bigbucks£££, altough this wasn't in the US mainstream media. However, I'm actually not certain, and wouldn't like to notice that I was wrong, so I'm trying to get you to give the info to me. Guess what? It seems that neither of us knows. And I'm way too lazy to search google.

Garth Vader · April 9, 2003, 12:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

Neither Iraq nor Afganistan is in Eurasia or east-Asia.

His quote was in reference to the book 1984.

VJ · April 9, 2003, 12:28

Quote:

His quote was in reference to the book 1984

If so, I don't get it.

Yes, I have read the book, a translated Finnish version.

GePap · April 9, 2003, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
A good question you could ask at this point is, "Where is the money from the rest of the international community?" Reconstructing Afghanistan was never meant to be a US only affair.

Oh yes, the ever popular.."wel, they aren't doing anyting either" routine. So what if other aren't doing their part? Our reponsibility is oing our part, and the US has filed badly there.

The thing is, this admin. wants Iraq to be our main responsibility.... and Afghanistan shows us how far the "solemn words" of this admin. actually get you.

reds4ever · April 9, 2003, 13:49

Bush wanted tangibe revenge, a carcass to drag through the streets to appease the masses, when it became aparrent he wasn't going to get OBL, Saddam was the next best.

If he'd have got OBL locked up and on trial, Iraq would probally never have happened. Thats what sticks in my throat when we hear this self-righteous BS about 'freeing the people of Iraq.'

MarkG · April 9, 2003, 14:08

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTE...3A4607,00.html

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTE...3A4607,00.html

Quote:

The 22 donors are: Bahrain, Canada, Denmark, European Commission, Finland, Germany, India, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States

Sandman · April 9, 2003, 14:19

In ten years, it will be 'hammertime' for Afghanistan again.