Accepting mistakes.

Bereta_Eder · April 11, 2003, 14:12

Many of the posts about the war were of course trolls or overblown.

Others I sincerely believed such as that there would be serious resistance in Bagdat and that there was no way to enter that city without at least some bloodbath.

MTG said this wasn't to be the case and I disagreed. And many people disagreed.

The future is yet to be seen but on this I for one have to admit I was wrong and MTG was right.

That's it. One good deed per decade is enough.

Drake Tungsten · April 11, 2003, 14:16

Backing away from the "one million civilian casualties" claim I see. I'm glad I just ignored you...

Bereta_Eder · April 11, 2003, 14:17

500.000 actually.

Bereta_Eder · April 11, 2003, 14:19

I'm sure the US didn't ignore it though.

Drake Tungsten · April 11, 2003, 14:19

At least you had the balls to admit you were wrong.

Bereta_Eder · April 11, 2003, 14:30

That I have; let me check... yes.

However I'm not talking about the 500.000 civilians dead which was the initial UN estimate. 100.000 from the fighting and the others from starvation, diseases and other humanitarian crisis. Obviously measures were taken for humanitarian catastrophies not to happen to that scale. These numbers serve as warnings. Besides, "the game is not over", it's level 2 now.

I'm talking about invading Bagdat and not meeting any particular resistance. This was very surprising.

MattyBoy · April 11, 2003, 19:57

Good work admitting you were wrong, Paiktis.

chequita guevara · April 11, 2003, 20:01

I have to admit, I was wrong too. I was sure that there were bio and chem weapons in Iraq. Seems like that may not have been true after all.

Seneca · April 11, 2003, 20:03

Good honest response.

There are two types of cynic - those who want to be proved wrong, and those who hate it. I'm glad Paiktis is of the former sort.

To hear some of the anti-war camp, you'd think they were almost relieved at the looting and anarchy, after all those depressing pictures of cheering Iraqis....

only some mind

BeBro · April 11, 2003, 20:10

Interesting - I recently saw something about gulf war I where "serious scientists" predicted 1 billion (really) deaths because of the burning oil fields. They thought they would burn for years causing a severe change in the climate of the region...

After some months all fires were put out, and 1 billion people survived.

Nubclear · April 11, 2003, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I have to admit, I was wrong too. I was sure that there were bio and chem weapons in Iraq. Seems like that may not have been true after all.

I was wrong as well. I thought Iraq had them and was going to use them, but.....Apparently not.

Seneca · April 11, 2003, 20:54

You're sad because they didn't?

Nubclear · April 11, 2003, 20:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Seneca
You're sad because they didn't?

Though you already know what I meant, I tend to over-estimate the intelligence of many people. Therefore I will clarify:

I'm sad because I made a mistake.

Im happy that they didnt use them

Seneca · April 11, 2003, 21:07

It was my ability to resist a cheap shot that you over-estimated, not my intelligence...

Tuberski · April 11, 2003, 21:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Seneca
It was my ability to resist a cheap shot that you over-estimated, not my intelligence...

Point and match.

ACK!

Lincoln · April 11, 2003, 21:23

paiktis obviously hasn't learned the dodge and duck technique. No one is ever wrong on this forum. But some of our previous comments are no longer operative (ala Richard Nixon).

Seneca · April 11, 2003, 21:24

It just shows that being an optimist is a high-stakes game. If it turns out well, then

because something good happened, and

becuase you're right. If it goes badly, then it's double

.

So pessimists are just hedging their bets, really.

Lefty Scaevola · April 11, 2003, 23:10

Bah! Error is for mortals.

MichaeltheGreat · April 12, 2003, 02:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Seneca
Good honest response.

There are two types of cynic - those who want to be proved wrong, and those who hate it. I'm glad Paiktis is of the former sort.

To hear some of the anti-war camp, you'd think they were almost relieved at the looting and anarchy, after all those depressing pictures of cheering Iraqis....

only some mind

The problem with pictures of cheering people is that the same people who cheer you one day may shoot you the next.

The same people who cheered US forces in Mogadishu one day, cheered the bodies of US pilors and Rangers being dragged through the streets by ropes a few months later. The mob, er, um, crowd, is a fickle thing.

The US is still incurring casualties in Baghdad, there are humanitarian and security problems all over the country. The Iraqis never had a problem cheering for Saddam either - kind of like Pavlov's dog, you learn to cheer for the guys with the guns, so that they don't shoot you.

Reading anything of substance into short-term local reactions is just a good way to delude yourself. That Saddam is/was a murderous psychotic sadistic ******* despised by a majority of his people is pretty hard to doubt in the slightest. That getting rid of Saddam, in and of itself, is worthwhile, is a given, if you don't concern yourself with what happens over the next years/decades, or elsewhere in the Islamic world.

GePap · April 12, 2003, 02:14

I hope things come out for the best, if only for purely selfish reasons (I don;t want to die and such and such). The thing is, nothing that has happened up to now has done anyting to remove that anxiety I have for this operation, since I always saw the possible dangers not form the actual war but form what is about to come.

Urban Ranger · April 12, 2003, 03:10

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
MTG said this wasn't to be the case and I disagreed. And many people disagreed.

It was rather puzzling.

Also, all those missing troops should be a concern.

MichaeltheGreat · April 12, 2003, 03:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It was rather puzzling.

Not at all. There's very few who are actually motivated to fight and die for Saddam. Never have been very many, except for "external" motivation, such as death at the hands of the regime's goons, or your families death.

The Iraqis in GW 1 summarily executed more of their own troops than they killed of ours.

Quote:

Also, all those missing troops should be a concern.

95% of them or more are deserters.

Zylka · April 12, 2003, 04:57

Well Paik, you've indeed gained some respect from myself

Az · April 12, 2003, 07:46

Paiktis.

We'll wait and see, but I so far, so good.

Kropotkin · April 12, 2003, 07:51

Nothing to be sorry about. After all there where plenty of military "experts" on your side. Solid, objective Information on the situation before hand was after all scarce.

Lincoln · April 12, 2003, 08:26

Another lesson for the experts. Whenever you see a talking head on TV it is probably best to listen to him with a grain of salt. The best information comes from the street. The problem is that the street was too scared to talk except for the expatriots. They predicted this outcome and apparently Bush listened to them.

Az · April 12, 2003, 09:24

Our talking heads were rather accurate in all of their assessments, so I give them much more respect.

I thought they were optimistic.