Global warming

webgeniet · March 17, 2001, 11:53

How can i disable global warming so that the earth condition dosen't change.

Jay Bee · March 17, 2001, 14:58

That's not quite correct Shaka. There is no way to disable global warming. You could get rid of the nukes by editing rules.txt but that's pretty much it. Pollution due to a high number of shields in a city will always exist. Only when you are able to build solar plants can this problem be overcome. A city with a solar plant in it produces no pollution at all. Bt hey, that means you have to build a solar plant in each and every city of your empire!

Father Beast · March 17, 2001, 19:13

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 03-17-2001 01:58 PM
A city with a solar plant in it produces no pollution at all. Bt hey, that means you have to build a solar plant in each and every city of your empire!

Hey! does that mean that when I build solar plants, I can sell my mass transit and recycling center without fear? that doesn't seem right...

let me go check...

Father Beast · March 17, 2001, 19:22

Nope, sorry, in the city I tried it on, I didn't get any pollution when I sold the recycling center, but got about 12 skull shields the next turn upon selling my mass transit.
the solar plant thing really helps, though. according to the manual solar plants actually absorb some of the ambient heat, thereby reducing the effective pollution in the world. with 50 cities with solar plants, you might be able to wage a nuclear war without fear of global warming.
Once I had a few solar plants and set to building more, I watched the warning line on the panel shrink and dissappear in the next decade or so.

of course, by the time you have solar plants, ,ost people have SDI's and nuclear war isn't much of an option.

Jay Bee · March 17, 2001, 19:30

No, no, you can't sell mass transits and recycling centers!!! These two things PLUS solar plants make pollution zero. You are correct when stating that, in addition, solar plants reduce the risk of global warming. I think you are at risk of nuclear warming when there are 8 polluted squares. Every solar plant increases this number by 0.5, so with 50 solar pants you would have to have 33 polluted squares at once for global warming to occur. Not impossible, but quite difficult.

[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited March 17, 2001).]

Shaka Naldur · March 18, 2001, 01:23

you need to discover an advance, nuclear fusion or something like that, once you´ve discovered it global warming won´t happen again

Six Thousand Year Old Man · March 18, 2001, 12:07

Hmmmm. I don't have an answer but I know I've played scenarios in which pollution was a non-factor (the WWII scenario that comes with Civ2, for example). So there must be some way to turn off the bad effects of all those smokestacks, through the rules.txt file I'm guessing.

I don't know exactly how it's done - do any of the scenario builders here know of a way?

STYOM

Jay Bee · March 18, 2001, 12:44

STYOM,

The 'pollution not a factor' button turns off industrial pollution not the one produced by nuclear weapons. There are two problems with this:
1)As you correrctly stated, this feature can only be implemented for scenarios, not for regular games.
2)Even with that button turned off, nukes will still produce skulls, which if left unattended, will end in global warming.

Ecthy · March 18, 2001, 20:16

actually, building Solar Plants in every city makes Hoover Dam obsolete... interesting observation, I know, thanks... that doesn't mean Hoover Dam is a ****e wonder, it's just very useful only in the early modern times... later, after you got environmentalism, you can sell it

umm... sell a wonder?

Six Thousand Year Old Man · March 19, 2001, 01:10

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 03-18-2001 11:44 AM
STYOM,

The 'pollution not a factor' button turns off industrial pollution not the one produced by nuclear weapons. There are two problems with this:
1)As you correrctly stated, this feature can only be implemented for scenarios, not for regular games.
2)Even with that button turned off, nukes will still produce skulls, which if left unattended, will end in global warming.

Thanks... I gathered, from the discussion above of mass transit/solar plant et al., that industrial pollution was the problem. That button would solve it nicely. Is there a reason the rules.txt file couldn't be modified for a regular game? (I'm going to have to take a look at that file again...)

STYOM

Marquis de Sodaq · March 19, 2001, 14:34

Don't forget that Mass Transit reduces a city's pollution created by population, not shield production. The Recycling Plant reduces pollution caused by shield production. Also, several techs (check the depths of the Great Library for the threads summarizing this) will alter the pollution factors upon discovery.

------------------
"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

Scouse Gits · March 19, 2001, 15:03

Don't forget that the cheapest pollution control is two engineers - they can clear up any square of pollution as fast as it appears - and occasionally get a rest turn when they can do something useful ...

------------------
Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Jay Bee · March 19, 2001, 17:57

quote:

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq on 03-19-2001 01:34 PM
Don't forget that Mass Transit reduces a city's pollution created by population, not shield production.

Well... aren't these two things intimately related? (more people = more tiles worked upon = more shieldpower)

quote:

The Recycling Plant reduces pollution caused by shield production. Also, several techs (check the depths of the Great Library for the threads summarizing this) will alter the pollution factors upon discovery.

This is interesting. Without going into much detail, could you please tell us which techs are these? It'd be easier

SG. You're absolutely correct, as usual.

RNF · March 19, 2001, 17:59

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 03-17-2001 06:30 PM
No, no, you can't sell mass transits and recycling centers!!! These two things PLUS solar plants make pollution zero

It's true that you can't sell the mass transit, since mass transit cleans up population pollution and solar plants clean up production pollution. You can sell the recycling center, though, since the solar plant cancels all production pollution from the city.

Marquis de Sodaq · March 20, 2001, 12:54

Jay Bee, it's been a while since I read it myself. One I do remember for certain is that the discovery of Mass Production increases pollution - but you get the benefit of being able to build an improvement to counter it. IIRC, Industrialization, Mass Production, and one(?) other have this effect. The effects are more warning shields in the city window and a hotter beaker indicator.

And yes, I suppose population and shield production are intimitely related. But at an extreme, a size 20 city is a size 20 city - whether it produces 5 shields or 50 makes the difference.

Maybe I should dig up the details before I post...

------------------
"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

Thoth · March 20, 2001, 20:04

quote:

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq on 03-20-2001 11:54 AMJay Bee, it's been a while since I read it myself. One I do remember for certain is that the discovery of Mass Production increases pollution - but you get the benefit of being able to build an improvement to counter it. IIRC, Industrialization, Mass Production, and one(?) other have this effect. The effects are more warning shields in the city window and a hotter beaker indicator.

And yes, I suppose population and shield production are intimitely related. But at an extreme, a size 20 city is a size 20 city - whether it produces 5 shields or 50 makes the difference.

This is from memory but, if I recall correctly

Pollution bellow 20 has no effect.

Each unit of population creates 1 unit of polution.

Each sheild of production creates 1 unit of polution.

The smokestacks you see on the city menu represent pollution in excess of 20 units.

Population based Pollution is increased by Industialization , Automobile,Mass production and Plastics.

Pollution is reduced by the discovery of Recycling and Environmentalism.

Mass Transits completely elliminate pollution caused by population.

Recycling centres reduce pollution caused by production (I'm not sure by how much, but I'd guess by 20 points).

Hydro and Nuclear plants also reduce production based pollution. I'm pretty certain it's by 20 points. Based on a lot of games where I've built Hoover Dam, the only cities that require more than a Mass Transit to achieve zero pollution are the ones with more than 40 sheilds of prodution.

Solar Plants completely elliminate production based pollution, and act to counterbalance global warming.

(most of the above info was drawn from the Scenario League's Design Tips FAQ, a most excellent html document available on their site, http://sleague.apolyton.net/ )

(edit: corrected technology advance pollution factors)
[This message has been edited by Thoth (edited March 22, 2001).]

cpemma · March 20, 2001, 20:05

quote:

But at an extreme, a size 20 city is a size 20 city - whether it produces 5 shields or 50 makes the difference.

That's my experience. My last Science City had only a few grassland shields and only ever needed Mass Transit to keep clean.

As a (very broad) generalisation, I find I need Mass Transit soon after Sewers. Before Hoover, a Factory generates pollution threats (and can Chernobyl), with Hoover it's not till I build a Manufacturing Plant that I need the Recycling Centre (but then you may need it *fast*).

Marquis de Sodaq · March 20, 2001, 23:24

Thanks for the details, Thoth! That saved me a foray into the depths of the library stacks...

------------------
"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

Thoth · March 21, 2001, 08:35

quote:

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq on 03-20-2001 10:24 PM
Thanks for the details, Thoth! That saved me a foray into the depths of the library stacks...

You're welcome. Though I forgot to add that Superhighways increase population based pollution. I'm not sure by how much, but I'd guess 50% or so.

Anyone feel like doing some tests?

N35t0r · March 21, 2001, 15:05

I always try to build mass transit afer the sewer system, and before i build a factory (usually buying it) as i don't like to get any pollution.

I build solar plants before manufacturing plants, which ensures me no pollution.

I've also experienced a rise in pollution in cities with no Mass transit in which i built solar plants.

I'm not sure if they had factories or if i had hoover's...