Challenge of Fate - join in the construction

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 07:43

Ok, this scenario will be a joint project of FiGu and myself. It´s about an alternative WW2 in a timeline FuGu and I invented yestereve

Here we´ll post our so far reached results, demands and we also discuss our scenario.

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 08:02

Our alternative timeline:

In the beginning of 1939 the Soviet Union decided to aid the Republican Spain with vast military equipment. This turned the tide on the Spanish peninsula and by July 1939 the Nationalists only held Morocco.
France is threatened by a communist Spain in the South and the United kingdom fears that Gibraltar would fall soon to the advancing red troops ....

July 1939: More Soviet military bases are built in Spain. In the meantime the tensions between Poland and Germany are rising.
August 1939: Germany invades Poland (without signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Also the British guarantee for Poland isn´t existing). The Allies - France and the United Kingdom - ask Germany to withdraw from Poland immediately. Fearing Germany standing at the Soviet borders Stalin orders the Red Army to occupy Poland from the East.
September 1939: Hitler decides to withdraw from Poland but the Red Army stops at last at the former German-Polish border.
The Allies sit aside and are watching the growing Soviet threat with growing worries. Germany decides to rearm polish POWs to help them to liberate Poland (and defend Germany).
October 1939: Stalin decides to attack Finnland first and postpones the assault on Europe to spring 1940.
November 1940: Concerned by the invasion Finnland by the USSR Germany decides two things: To ask the Allies to help Germany in case of war and to send support troops to Finnland.
Winter 1939/40: The Finnish-Soviet Winter War ends with a draw because also France and Great Britain sending in additional troops fighting the Red Army.
Also the pressure of the Soviet Union on the minor powers of the Balcan peninsula is growing with every day. Bulgaria was forced to join the "Red Front" and Romania is only - moretheless - independent because of the presence of German troops. Turkey is figting a communist coup d´état that took place in the major cities and is also fearing an Soviet attack.
Spring 1940: The Soviet Union launches a large-scaled attack on Germany in Poland. Also the Soviet forces in Bulgaria start to create havoc on the Balcan and in the western edge of Europe the communist Spain starts a war against Portugal and readies its troops at the Spanish-French border.
Germany asks France and Great Britain for aid and finally some kind of Anti-Communist Pact is signed between Germany, France and Great Britain. Turkey stands aside and watches with growing concerns the rising Red Sun. Italy stands also aside and want to stay neutral because of the not too imminent threat.

But: What will the Future bring?

That will be the point where the scenario kicks off .... Can you Challenge the Fate?

Playable civs: USSR, Germany, France, Italy, Great Britain, Turkey, Spain

FiGu · April 21, 2003, 08:05

Ok,here are the Allied units for the scenario.

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 08:13

And some "Axis" units ...

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 08:22

Ok FiGu, have a look at the Infantry units in the top 3 rows.

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 09:02

A first list of units for you, FiGu.

The Apologist · April 21, 2003, 09:09

Quote:

Originally posted by jim panse
Our alternative timeline:

In the beginning of 1939 the Soviet Union decided to aid the Republican Spain with vast military equipment. This turned the tide on the Spanish peninsula and by July 1939 the Nationalists only held Morocco.
France is threatened by a communist Spain in the South and the United kingdom fears that Gibraltar would fall soon to the advancing red troops ....

I'm guessing that the Stalinists shoot the rest of the Popular Front, seize complete power, etc, etc?

Quote:

July 1939: More Soviet military bases are built in Spain. In the meantime the tensions between Poland and Germany are rising.

What are these bases for? Soviet Russia's a land power... they don't need Spanish soil to invade Europe from!

Quote:

August 1939: Germany invades Poland (without signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Also the British guarantee for Poland isn´t existing). The Allies - France and the United Kingdom - ask Germany to withdraw from Poland immediately. Fearing Germany standing at the Soviet borders Stalin orders the Red Army to occupy Poland from the East.

This does not make sense. Uncle Joe would most likely have made the best of a bad lot and condemned Adolph with the rest of the scooby gang. (Apologies for mixed metaphors.)

Quote:

September 1939: Hitler decides to withdraw from Poland but the Red Army stops at last at the former German-Polish border.

This doesn't make much sense either. H. wasn't in the business of backing down. Ever.

Quote:

...
Germany asks France and Great Britain for aid and finally some kind of Anti-Communist Pact is signed between Germany, France and Great Britain. Turkey stands aside and watches with growing concerns the rising Red Sun. Italy stands also aside and want to stay neutral because of the not too imminent threat.

Doubt it. Benny was a strident anti-Communist, whereas the "Judeo-Capitalist" British and French are rather more likely to just throw money at the problem.

Typical.

FiGu · April 21, 2003, 09:17

Ok here is the list with British and French units.

FiGu · April 21, 2003, 10:15

ok, here's the engineer unit!
Made by FMK and modified by me.

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 10:40

The He-111 needs still recolouring ...

Henrik · April 21, 2003, 11:39

Quote:

Originally posted by The Apologist
Doubt it. Benny was a strident anti-Communist, whereas the "Judeo-Capitalist" British and French are rather more likely to just throw money at the problem.

On the other hand pre ww2 museleni wasn't allways too fond of the germans either

As I recall Italy was even the only european power to voice oposition when Germany and Austria united...

jim panse · April 21, 2003, 13:09

The Italian Blackshirt Militia

Choke · April 21, 2003, 13:33

"Doubt it. Benny was a strident anti-Communist, whereas the "Judeo-Capitalist" British and French are rather more likely to just throw money at the problem."

Mussolini never considered Russia a real enemy. He was anti-communist, but not particularly anti-Stalinist and he would not plunge Italy into a no-gain war with Russia.

jim panse · April 24, 2003, 02:56

The - more or less (@ choke -

) - complete units of Germany and Italy.

[the last 4 units in the 3rd row won´t be used, there are still some other units missing]

jim panse · April 24, 2003, 03:00

FiGu, what about the tracks of the tanks .... wouldn´t it be nice to have them coloured like the German tanks?

curtsibling · April 24, 2003, 05:31

Hehe!

The plot sounds oddly familiar!
If you guys need any graphic help, just gimme a call!

God work by all!

jim panse · April 24, 2003, 06:03

Well, maybe the timeline needs adjustments ....

FiGu · April 24, 2003, 08:03

Wow, the british troops just put their winter clothes on

FiGu · April 24, 2003, 08:09

Quote:

FiGu, what about the tracks of the tanks .... wouldn´t it be nice to have them coloured like the German tanks?

Sure!

FiGu · April 24, 2003, 10:46

here comes the Heer in winter camo!

jim panse · April 24, 2003, 11:21

FiGu, for you. A present

FiGu · April 24, 2003, 11:54

Here comes the italians with their heavy tank! P26/40!

spader · April 24, 2003, 19:31

Sorry to say this but Hitler would never ever withdraw from Poland even if all his generals told him to.

One question to Jim Panse about the following pic

The unit that is located at: 2 From the left and "inwards"
and 3 down... what unit is that? It is some type of StuG right?

/Spader

jim panse · April 25, 2003, 03:51

Quote:

Originally posted by spader
Sorry to say this but Hitler would never ever withdraw from Poland even if all his generals told him to.

One question to Jim Panse about the following pic

The unit that is located at: 2 From the left and "inwards"
and 3 down... what unit is that? It is some type of StuG right?

/Spader

(1) We are currently fixing the timeline ..... it will be as accurate as possible in an alternative scenario

(2) Yes, it´s a StuG III.

Choke · April 25, 2003, 05:30

I think it should be remembered, this is an ALTERNATE reality. It can be whatever the creator WANTS because it's NOT REALITY.

our_man · April 25, 2003, 07:30

With all these alternate history scenarios (Soviet Steel, Challenge of Fate) in development one wonders if we should try and resurrect SDC5 and make things a bit more competitive?

jim panse · April 25, 2003, 09:02

Yesterday FiGu and I agreed on some modifications to the timeline.

At the beginning of 1939 Stalin decided to send Republican Spain more than additional military advisors and sent a vast expeditionary force to the Iberian Peninsula. The reinforced Republican Forces were able to turn the tide and wiped the Nationalists from the European continent.

In spring 1939 the Fascists under Franco only held the Spanish territory in Northern Africa but for how long?

OVer the summer 1939 the relations between the Baltic Republics Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia and the USSR got worser every day. And in Eastern Europe Poland dreamed of the days of Kosciusko .... and gambled with the Soviet Union.
On the Iberian peninsula the Republican Army, supported by parts of the Red Army "exported" the Revolution to Portugal.

One day in August 1939 the USSR attacked Poland. The Polish Army fought fierce battles but the Soviet Army was far too great to be stopped by Poland.

Within the following two months Poland was defeated, occupied and forced to join the Soviet Union as a Socialist Soviet Republic. Hundreds of thousands Poles and Germans fled westwards, towards Germany, telling horrific stories of the cruelties the Soviet Army should have committed

First, Germany stood aside and asked the USSR to not march over the German-Russian borders of 1914 but since the Red Army occupied all of Poland the relations between Germany and the now enlarged Soviet Union got worser every day. Germany also didn´t want to give asylum to the polish refugees but Great Britain and France agreed in paying 2/3 of the costs.

In autumn 1939 the USSR had nearly finished reorganizing the former Polish lands and was now able to attack Middle Europe. As an answer to this Red Threat Germany began rearming the escaped parts of the Polish Army and turned its armies from the Western borders towards the East, expecting the Soviet assault any day.

But Stalin decided to go after Finnland and the Baltic Republics before going to war with Germany. The Red Army overrun the small pockets of resistance in the Baltic Republics and Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia joined the USSR.
But the Finns resisted the Soviet Army and so the Western Democracies agreed in aiding the autoritarian regime of Carl von Mannerheim against the USSR and sent in an expeditionary force. Also Germany sent some support troops to Finnland thinking that the defence of Berlin starts in Finnland.

The Finnish Winter War lasted the whole winter 1939/40 but the Soviet Army could not break through to Helsinki and the war went on without decisive battles ....

But there was still the Middle European front. Stalin ordered his troops to remain defensive until the Western Powers withdraw their forces. Over the Winter 1939/40 Stalin and the now Communist Spain agreed in a combined attack on the rest of Europe, the USSR shall attack from the East, Spain from the South-West.

That´s the situation now, as the scenario kicks off in spirng 1940.
The Red Army started a massive assault on Germany who asks France and Great Britain to defend the "European Culture against the invaders from the East". The Western Powers agreed to join the war on Germany´s side.
France announced it could hardly spare troops because of the communist threat from the south. At last Great Britain was struggling to reinforce Gibraltar which is besieged by a huge Spanish-Soviet Army.
Italy felt itself not really threatened at this moment and waited.
On the southern edge of Europe Turkey was also struggling. A communist coup d´état took place only hours before the Soviet offensive against Germany begun. The insurgents were able to gain control over Ankara and some minor cities in the East. The Turkish president, Ismet Inönü, fled to Istanbul, asked for help against the Red Threat and vowed to crush the communist rebellion.

Can you Challange the Fate? Can you turn the tide? Or will the Soviet Juggernaut overrun Europe and turn the Old Continent into some Soviet Republics?

Henrik · April 25, 2003, 10:23

Quote:

Originally posted by spader

Am I the only one who notices that image is upside down?

jim panse · April 25, 2003, 10:24

Ok, first units ....

... and my wish-list:

- a Partisan unit (2nd row, 1st unit)
- a Republican Guard (communist spanish unit, 3rd row, 3rd unit)

- NKWD Troops/Red Guard (3rd row, 5th unit)
- Siberian Troops (3rd row, 6th unit)
- Yakovlev Yak-1 (4th row, 3rd unit)
- Petlyakov Pe-2 (4th row, 4th unit)
- (UK) Commandos (5th row, 3rd unit; sorry FiGu but your commando overlaps the allowed area)
- V-1/A2 Flying Bomb
- V-2/A4 Ballistic Missile (I know that there are a lot of good-looking missiles, I just want to decide ...

)

That´s it for now, just post you units here or in the units thread (in this case please leave a message here. Thanks).

jim panse · April 25, 2003, 10:25

Yes, the tracks of the tanks and of the other tracked vehicles will be changed.