Favourite MtG cards? - Page 2

Panda · May 17, 2003, 18:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Ooo, some nasty counter spells are: Arcane Denial, Quash, Rewind, Ertai’s Trickery, and Grip of Amnesia,.

A "friend" played Quash against me when we played with extended decks, and I thought it was pretty good. So I bought some more for myself at GenCon, and now find they're not that good, only being able to counter target instant or sorcery spells.

I replaced them with Rethinks:

Rethink
{2}{U}
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays X, where X is its converted mana cost.

Urban Ranger · May 17, 2003, 23:39

It can be very good against decks with lots of instant or sorcery cards. For example, if you'd be able to use it on a Lightning Bolt or Fireball? Talking about adding insult to injury!

Rethink looks weak, because you need 3 mana, and doesn't really counter a spell - it's just a very big spike. Granted, if you use something like a triple colour deck, it comes into handy.

loinburger · May 17, 2003, 23:50

What's the name of that counterspell-type card that has the option of being cast for 0 mana? (IIRC the alternate cost is to remove one of your cards from the game or something.) It's expensive, but it'll sure surprise the hell out of somebody playing a speed deck...

Mr. President · May 18, 2003, 04:01

Force of Will. Instead of payinig its casting cost, you may remove a blue card in your hand from the game.

It was supposed to be an answer to the first-turn Lightning Bolt.

Urban Ranger · May 18, 2003, 12:38

Spelljack is a fun counter to have.

loinburger · May 18, 2003, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
It was supposed to be an answer to the first-turn Lightning Bolt.

Most importantly, it stops a first-turn Necropotence, which was often a game-winner.

Urban Ranger · May 18, 2003, 22:42

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
Most importantly, it stops a first-turn Necropotence, which was often a game-winner.

Or a first turn channel-ball, which is still legal in Type I, I think.

loinburger · May 18, 2003, 22:47

Isn't everything legal in Type 1?

Mr. President · May 19, 2003, 00:01

How does first-turn Necropotence work? Presumably you cast it with Dark Ritual or some such, but how do you do a first-turn kill with it?

loinburger · May 19, 2003, 00:32

It's not a first-turn kill, just a first-turn tremendous card advantage, which is a deficit that your opponent will almost certainly fail to recover from. First-turn kills are close to impossible to make in non-type 1 decks -- they basically nerf them specifically to prevent them.

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 01:29

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
Isn't everything legal in Type 1?

Not sure. Aren't there cards banned even for Type 1?

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 01:31

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
It's not a first-turn kill, just a first-turn tremendous card advantage, which is a deficit that your opponent will almost certainly fail to recover from. First-turn kills are close to impossible to make in non-type 1 decks -- they basically nerf them specifically to prevent them.

Wouldn't a Library of Leng good counter for Necropotence? It gives you some nice advantages, esp when played with this other artifact that gives you one life for each card in your hand over 7.

loinburger · May 19, 2003, 01:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Not sure. Aren't there cards banned even for Type 1?

Just the ante ones, I think. (Like Demonic Attorney or Amulet Of Quoz or Rebirth.) I think they might also have the 4-card-of-each-type limit imposed, but I'm not sure.

Library of Leng is fantastic, but it doesn't prevent your opponent from drawing a zillion cards using Necropotence, since it only skips your discard phase, not your opponent's. The Black Speed Deck strategy relies on your opponent getting Necropotence out on his first turn, drawing a zillion cards, and then having a hand full of weenies and Dark Rituals on the second turn. Blue just doesn't have enough Counterspells to handle all of the spells, White and Green can't get out their weenies fast enough and don't have enough mana to fuel a Circle of Protection, and Red is in the same boat (unless Black is stupid and draws so many cards that Red gets an easy win with a lightning bolt). If your opponent got a Dark Ritual and a Necropotence on his first draw, then you were usually ****ed.

DinoDoc · May 19, 2003, 02:06

Here's a full listing of the Scourge cards.

The Sliver Overlord looks almost broken for the people running Sliver decks.

Mr. President · May 19, 2003, 03:07

Yeah, he's pretty good. Slivers vs. Slivers would be chaos!

I think this guy might have an edge over the Sliver Queen from Tempest in that her ability makes generic Slivers with no abilities. If you really need the Sliver that boosts its people's power, he'll find it for you!

I like Soul Collector, personally. Why aren't there more Vampires?

DinoDoc · May 19, 2003, 03:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
I think this guy might have an edge over the Sliver Queen from Tempest in that her ability makes generic Slivers with no abilities.

Imagine having them both.

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 11:06

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
White and Green can't get out their weenies fast enough and don't have enough mana to fuel a Circle of Protection, and Red is in the same boat (unless Black is stupid and draws so many cards that Red gets an easy win with a lightning bolt). If your opponent got a Dark Ritual and a Necropotence on his first draw, then you were usually ****ed.

I smell Balance

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 11:07

The Divergent Growth card is pretty vicious.

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 11:39

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
Library of Leng is fantastic, but it doesn't prevent your opponent from drawing a zillion cards using Necropotence, since it only skips your discard phase, not your opponent's.

That's true, but since the opponent still has a discard phase, he still needs to discard his hand down to 7 cards, right?

Immortal Wombat · May 19, 2003, 12:17

I just played a game with a guy who brought out Phage.

I knocked him off with a Smouldering Tar.

Immortal Wombat · May 19, 2003, 12:24

Crap that was close. Wouldnt want to meet Scion of Darkness again in a hurry. He had me royally raped until he used the Scion to gain control of a Phyrexian Delver, which then brought back another Scion, which promptly lost him his last 7 life

My life total? 1. (with one creature to his 5, and no cards in hand.)

yay for stupidity

loinburger · May 19, 2003, 12:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's true, but since the opponent still has a discard phase, he still needs to discard his hand down to 7 cards, right?

Yup, but Black is usually able to reduce his hand size thanks to Dark Rituals. Two swamps and three Dark Rituals spells a lot of Black weenies on the second turn.

IIRC, black draws on the discard phase with Necropotence (I don't have the card text in front of me), so if you were somehow able to Donate him a Library of Leng then you could potentially keep him cardless for life.

There's another card that I thought would always work well with Donate, but I can't remember its name. It's something like, "Cumulative Upkeep: Remove the top card of your deck from the game. If you do not pay this upkeep, then remove your deck from the game. At any time you may remove the top card of your deck from the game and gain 1 life." Could you just imagine getting stuck with a card like that? "Hooray, I have lots of life, and no deck! Clearly I am the winner!"

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
Yup, but Black is usually able to reduce his hand size thanks to Dark Rituals. Two swamps and three Dark Rituals spells a lot of Black weenies on the second turn.

True, but that would be a bit costly, unless he's somewhat lucky with his draws. Think about it. If he wants to keep one swamp and 3 Dark Rituals (highly unlikely to pull all 3 of the remaining ones), he has only room for 3 weenies. Speaking of which, what Black weenies are there, except some skeletons?

Anyway, that looks like a Necropotence - black weenie deck is going to have problems with a straight white weenie deck.

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
IIRC, black draws on the discard phase with Necropotence (I don't have the card text in front of me), so if you were somehow able to Donate him a Library of Leng then you could potentially keep him cardless for life.

Now that would be nasty, but probably wouldn't work on the first turn, unless you get to go first. It's also a sorcery. Now if it's an Instant, the card would be just very, very deadly.

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger
There's another card that I thought would always work well with Donate, but I can't remember its name. It's something like, "Cumulative Upkeep: Remove the top card of your deck from the game. If you do not pay this upkeep, then remove your deck from the game. At any time you may remove the top card of your deck from the game and gain 1 life." Could you just imagine getting stuck with a card like that? "Hooray, I have lots of life, and no deck! Clearly I am the winner!"

Oooh. That's vicious. Is it a real card?

Urban Ranger · May 19, 2003, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Crap that was close. Wouldnt want to meet Scion of Darkness again in a hurry.

What's that?

BTW, what's this "converted mana cost" bit?

DinoDoc · May 19, 2003, 23:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What's that?

Card Name: Scion of Darkness
Mana Cost: 5BBB
Type & Class: Creature - Avatar
Pow/Tou: 6/6
Card Text: Trample. Whenever Scion of Darkness deals combat damage to a player, you may put target creature card from that player's graveyard into play under your control. . Cycling 3 (3, Discard this card from your hand: Draw a card)

Quote:

BTW, what's this "converted mana cost" bit?

That's what I'd like to know.

DinoDoc · May 19, 2003, 23:34

Bump

DinoDoc · May 19, 2003, 23:36

Let's try this one more time.

DinoDoc · May 19, 2003, 23:40

Sigh

Urban Ranger · May 20, 2003, 00:30

Stop spamming. You need to wait a bit.

DinoDoc · May 20, 2003, 00:45

Sorry.