Favourite MtG cards? - Page 6

Immortal Wombat · May 31, 2003, 11:51

I was rummaging through my RL cards yesterday, and came across a rather nice enchantment combo. Treacherous Link and Pariah on the same (opponent owned creature) - Thus any damage that hits you gets reflected onto them, using the creature as a channel.

Of course, knowing my luck, there's a card that achieves this on its own, but I like it. It does however, present a rather curious paradox which I shall now post in the rules thread...

Moulinex · June 6, 2003, 03:51

Well I have not been playing Magic for a few years (I stopped during "Visions" edition and started to play with the Legends)
So far as i remember...

Black :
Lich or its lesser counterpart Necropotence
Also nice for the discarding feature...
And a top notch card is also the Underworld Dreams

White :
Balance, Wrath of Gods, Armadeggon (white is nice when you want to kaboom the whole game

Blue :
All the counter... but still like an expensive card named Vesuvan Doppelganger (UU3 if I remember right), beautiful pic (think it was Quinton Hoover's art)

Green :
Birds of paradise...
And also good for the mushroom army (or call it saprolings if you want

Red :
Lightning (R for 3 damage... always nice

or the delicious Fork... always fun to use.

Artefact :
Howling mine... or Juggernaut

Land :
Library of Alexandria, nice pic, nice effet...

Multicolor :
Can't remember any card except "Jacques le vert" a multicolor legend making all your green creatures +0/+2

Magic was (and is still) my favorite game during years... but badly it also was a really expensive game (used to be collectionner, meaning I had to buy at last 3boxes of each ediion to have each card once)...
Too bad Wizards of the coast decided to make a new edition about 4 times per year... I miss total chaos games or emperor games... had really good evenings/nights with those cards... and if I wasn't that busy, I would certainly restart playing but I missed that many edition that It would take me a lot of time to retrieve all new rules/cards/tricks/tips...

Moulinex · June 6, 2003, 03:54

Damn!
Forgot my fave combo...
Blood lust + giant growth + berserk... (basic but always nice)
Then your opponent uses a Swords to plowshares...

Urban Ranger · June 6, 2003, 06:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Moulinex
Blue :
All the counter... but still like an expensive card named Vesuvan Doppelganger (UU3 if I remember right), beautiful pic (think it was Quinton Hoover's art)

Blue used to have all the nasty cards, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, the whole works.

The Doppleganger is a nice card, I have that too.

loinburger · June 6, 2003, 09:20

Don't forget Control Magic...

Urban Ranger · June 6, 2003, 11:40

And Steal Artifact
And Clone
And ...

Mr. President · June 6, 2003, 22:45

(little more recent)

And Palinchron
And Stroke of Genius
And Tinker
And Rewind
And Time Spiral . . .

Urban Ranger · June 6, 2003, 23:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
(little more recent)

And Palinchron
And Stroke of Genius
And Tinker
And Rewind
And Time Spiral . . .

Tinker isn't all that evil, there are a whole bunch of black cards that do similar things with creatures.

However, Rewind is like a free counter

WotC has been doing the same thing over and over again. Blue was the most powerful at the beginning (Alpha, Beta, Unlimited), so it gave more stuff to other colours. Somewhere in the middle Blue became the weakest, so they start giving nasty things to Blue. But this new stuff is even nastier than the old stuff. Stroke of Genius is like Braingeyser, except that it is an instant

Jon Miller · June 7, 2003, 01:19

but you have to have 4 open

and rewind sucks if it gets countered

Jon Miller

Ben Kenobi · June 7, 2003, 02:12

Rewinds are very handy with Winter Orbs/ Tolarian Academy.

Who needs Icy manipulators?

Urban Ranger · June 7, 2003, 05:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Miller
but you have to have 4 open

and rewind sucks if it gets countered

Of course, imagine how broken it would be if it only costs UU. As for it getting countered, of course, it will have to depend on your skill of playing the game. It's a lot less sucky than, say, Spell Blast getting countered.

Mr. President · June 8, 2003, 03:24

The "free" mechanic on Rewind, Palinchron, Great Whale, Cloud of Faeries, Time Spiral, and others is blamed by some analysts for breaking the game while Urza's Saga was current.

Urban Ranger · June 8, 2003, 05:11

I haven't compared them, but there are also many vicious black and red cards in that block as well. In fact, it looks like those blue cards were designed to counter the overwhelming power in some of the other colours.

Mr. President · June 9, 2003, 04:06

I agree, I hear things like Yawgmoth's Bargain are quite abusable (don't ask me specifically how, though).

Under the right circumstances, Channel can be just as bad as Tolarian Academy - I don't know if you've ever seen the 10 Mountain, 10 Black Lotus, 10 Channel, 10 Fireball deck. That one is almost worse than an Academy deck because it involves fewer cards (which are impossible to get now, but were slightly less impossible to get back in the day).

I'm glad they have the rule on four of any one card. The deck I mentioned above pales in comparison with the 20 Mountain, 20 Lightning Bolt deck.

Ben Kenobi · June 9, 2003, 04:09

Bah.

Why waste your time with useless cards?

The unbeatable deck:

3 Black Lotus
2 Timetwister
1 Timewalk
2 Lightning Bolt

Mr. President · June 9, 2003, 05:21

How do you shuffle a deck that small?

Did anyone read the article on MagicTheGathering.com about reminder text for creature abilities?

Maybe the answer is just to cut out some - lots - of keywords. Flying and First Strike are flavorful, so I'd say they can stay. But is the world really a better place with landwalk abilities? They rarely use them anyway.

DinoDoc · June 9, 2003, 09:49

Quote:

Originally posted by obiwan18
Bah.

Why waste your time with useless cards?

The unbeatable deck:

Will likely have Brain Freeze and Shrieking Drake.

Immortal Wombat · June 9, 2003, 10:19

ouch

Urban Ranger · June 9, 2003, 12:00

You cheaters. You cannot have more than 1 Black Lotus in a deck.

Urban Ranger · June 9, 2003, 12:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
Maybe the answer is just to cut out some - lots - of keywords. Flying and First Strike are flavorful, so I'd say they can stay. But is the world really a better place with landwalk abilities? They rarely use them anyway.

The game is in one big mess anyway.

SnowFire · June 9, 2003, 17:51

1) Rewind sucks. The Free mechanic is powerful, yes, but it's powerful for "going off" by repeatedly casting Free spells with a High Tide, Academy, Gaea's Cradle, or some other way of making lands produce lots of mana when untapped. You quickly go through your deck to find a kill card that uses all that mana you've generated (Stroke of Genius, Fireball, etc.). The best cards for this are card-drawing cards- like Frantic Search and Time Spiral. Rewind is conditional, requires a spell for your opponent to work, and if countering on your opponent's turn, you won't have any use for all the mana you've just created with your Academy.

2) Channel is broken, but not in Type I. Simple answer: Force of Will & Misdirection. You've just spent almost all your life to Fireball... yourself. Ah, the glory of pitch counters.

3) Keywords are fun! Don't cut them!

4) Yawgmoth's Bargain is abusable for combo decks. Suppose I have 3 cards that, when I draw them all and cast them all (uncountered), I set up a situation where it's virtually impossible for me to lose the game. A good modern example would be Wirewood Channeler (Tap: Add X mana to your pool of any color, where X is the number of elves in play), Pemmin's Aura (one of the abilities it gives a creature is U: untap it), and Read the Runes (UX: Draw X cards, then sacrifice Y permenants and discard X-Y cards. You choose Y.). Assuming 2 elves in play, the Channeler enchanted with the Aura produces infinite mana (make 2 blue. Use 1 to untap it. Repeat. Then start adding whatever color you need, and use frivolous untaps to burn any extra mana). Read the Runes allows you to draw your entire deck, sacrifice one permenant, and keep 1 of the cards you drew- say, something like Flamewave Invoker, so you can turn all that extra mana into damage for your opponent. That said, you need to have all 3 cards for your super-combo. Getting just 2 is useless and you'll lose. The probabilities of getting all 3, even with 4 in your deck, are 16% on Turn 5. That's pretty bad.
Yawgmoth's Bargain allows you to spend 15 life to functionally advance to Turn 20, where your chances of having drawn at least one of each of the three substantially improve.
Now imagine if it was a two card combo...

Ben Kenobi · June 9, 2003, 20:41

Anorther 3 card combo:

Sliver Queen
Ashnod's Altar
Heart stone

Pay 1 mana to create a sliver token.
Sacrifice the Sliver token for 2 mana.
Repeat...

Urban Ranger · June 9, 2003, 22:26

Quote:

Originally posted by SnowFire
1) Rewind sucks. The Free mechanic is powerful, yes, but it's powerful for "going off" by repeatedly casting Free spells with a High Tide, Academy, Gaea's Cradle, or some other way of making lands produce lots of mana when untapped. You quickly go through your deck to find a kill card that uses all that mana you've generated (Stroke of Genius, Fireball, etc.). The best cards for this are card-drawing cards- like Frantic Search and Time Spiral. Rewind is conditional, requires a spell for your opponent to work, and if countering on your opponent's turn, you won't have any use for all the mana you've just created with your Academy.

Not necessarily. It works well enough as a normal counter, but is really great when you have something like Winter Orb or Stasis sitting around.

Quote:

Originally posted by SnowFire
2) Channel is broken, but not in Type I. Simple answer: Force of Will & Misdirection. You've just spent almost all your life to Fireball... yourself. Ah, the glory of pitch counters.

For Type I, the best answer is a counter followed by Fork. The Fork goes off first, creating a copy of his fireball (or whatever offensive spell he has), and then the counter zaps his original.

Quote:

Originally posted by SnowFire
4) Yawgmoth's Bargain is abusable for combo decks.

That just looks like Necropotence to me.

DinoDoc · June 10, 2003, 20:20

Can someone explain the value of Bladewing to me and if it would be worth making a deck around him? Or should I just try to trade the card for something else?

SnowFire · June 10, 2003, 20:23

Yawgmoth's Bargain is an attempt at a "fixed" Necropotence. On the bright side, it now costs 6 mana instead of 3, so it'll take a bit to get out. On the downside, instead of having to wait until your discard phase (and having to spend an indeterminate amount of life, since you're guessing when you'll find what you want), the Bargain gives you a card immediately for 1 life. Meaning you can pay precisely the amount of life required and not "overspend" like you can with Necro.

Needless to say, R&D soon found that they goofed, and the Bargain was soon on the Restricted list.

Here's another fun combo:
Prodigal Sorceror (or anything that can tap to deal damage).
Curiosity ("Whenever enchanted creature deals damage to a player, draw a card").
Mind over Matter ("Discard a card from your hand: Tap or untap target permenant")

So if you have a Curious Sorceror, you can deal an amount of damage equal to the cards in your deck, basically. Tap, do damage, draw a card, toss card to untap Sorceror, repeat.

You guys see the 8th edition spoiler that's out now? They're giving Blue & Green a giant kick in the teeth as far as I can tell, but White & Black both got huge gains. Savannah Lions, Story Circle, Royal Assassin, Phyrexian Arena, Underworld Dreams... White & Black only lost Disenchant, Duress, & Corrupt as far as I can tell. Maenwhile, Green loses everything good below 4 mana except Birds of Paradise (no more Elvish Archers, Llanowar Elves, Wild Growth, etc.), and Blue loses Counterspell and all sorts of its utility spells.

Mr. President · June 10, 2003, 21:40

It was true about Savannah Lions and Royal Assassin?

I'd be glad to see Counterspell go if it means a little less focus on counter-magic.

Mr. President · June 10, 2003, 21:41

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Can someone explain the value of Bladewing to me and if it would be worth making a deck around him? Or should I just try to trade the card for something else?

If you can get lots of Dragons, Bladewing is cool. Otherwise, he's just in your deck for his nifty artwork.

DinoDoc · June 10, 2003, 21:45

What would a dragon deck look like? It sounds like it would be expensive.

SnowFire · June 10, 2003, 22:40

Well, it depends on your collection. If you're just starting, yeah, a Dragon deck is probably out of reach. That said, he's perfectly fine as just a large creature in an early casual deck.

Hmm, looking at this more, Green REALLY got hosed. They lost freakin' everything! They don't even have Fog! Nor Seeker of Skybreak! Or Hurricane! At least Blue got a few scraps to make up for the loss of virtually all its good cards- Mana Leak, Curiosity, Merchant Scroll, Coastal Piracy are all good cards. Green keeps Bird of Paradise & Giant Growth as good early plays. The thing is, large creatures are a dime a dozen (Even if some of them are good), but totally hosing the lesser ones... Not to mention that in terms of color hosers, White got the good black one in classic Karma, while Green loses Compost.

Urban Ranger · June 10, 2003, 22:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. President
I'd be glad to see Counterspell go if it means a little less focus on counter-magic.

That's what blue supposed to do best, control over magic.