Greatest upset in history of World Championship hockey? - Page 3

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 19:24

The US won today.. they beat the crap out of .. Slovenia?
We lost to Slovakia today.. numbers are rough, but we were 1-3 and they scored 2 to empty net, thus 5-1.. we had every chances of winning the game, but we just couldn't score from the many situations we had. Sucks.. Slovakia has a good team though.. Satan, Bondra, Palffy, Stumpel.. full of stars.. well anyway, we're still in the fight, making our way to quarter finals.. we'll see what's gonna happen.

Winston · May 2, 2003, 19:37

I'm sure Finland will overcome today's (yesterday's?) result and continue on its set path to the quarterfinals. Good luck with the next games anyway.

And Slovakia are reigning champions, so no surprise they're a match for any team on any day.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 19:47

WInston, I'm not 100% sure if we're in the same timezone (we're +2.00 GMT, geesh I'm not even sure..), but it's yesterday already. Yeah we will overcome it no problem. The problem is we're having troubles scoring. We have chances, lots of them, but we just can't score!
So we are more worried about it, because in tough games you need to have those little things going towards you.. can't miss too many chances!
I'm afraid we're facing Sweden in quarter finals.. would be a thriller to us, but it would be 50/50.. I don't like those odds!

Anyway, you guys have stolen pretty good games, first the US, then Canada..

.

So.. anything is possible for Denmark too at this point. So I wish you guys good luck too, you have already accomplished pretty awesome stuff.. but don't quit now, not yet

.

raghar · May 2, 2003, 19:58

Well slowakians learned defence. They had nice attack already so it was neccesary for them to learn the second skill.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 20:03

True. I think anyone who follows hockey closely enough, knows that Slovakias offense is great with super stars leading the way.. the question was their defence, and it seems to be they got it together pretty well. We couldn't brake the lines like we wanted, not many clear 2-1, 3-2 attacks.. they managed jam the blue line pretty good. And we couldn't make the puck move fast enough and pass it to brake the defence line either. It seems like they figured us out and scouted our plans pretty well, and we failed to do the same for them.

Winston · May 2, 2003, 20:08

Pekka,
Agreed, no quitting! We still have to take on Latvia and Sweden, and maybe, just maybe, we can cause a bit of commotion yet.

Against Canada, perhaps we were also aided by the fact that the tie didn't actually make any difference to Canada. I read that they had to beat the Russians anyway for the group win, and they still have to with yesterday's tie. Now if Denmark had held on to the lead and actually won, it would have been much worse on Canada.

But it could also be that they simply couldn't get through our 5 line defense and past our goalkeeper who was once again on fire as you said, saving 42 of 44 shots! Either way, no complaints here.

Finland will get their scoring together as the tournament progresses, surely.

Denmark is GMT+1 and you Eastern Europeans are GMT+2, I'm quite sure.

I just thought you played Thursday, but I see you had it in your post that it was Friday.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 20:21

Eastern Europeans? EASTERN EUROPEANS?! NORTHERN EUROPEANS!!!!!

Yeah, Friday, yesterday.. Tomorrow we'll be playing Ukraine.. I don't think they can create too much danger. I'm not however confident that our scoring will get better.. it has been our biggest problem in the last 5 years in tough games

. But I hope so.

So you play against Latvia and Sweden? Swedes are tough, great team... anything can happen, but I figure the best chance is to beat Latvia. They have a good team too, so it will be a tough one. I haven't calculated your points, if you beat Latvia or Sweden (2 more points), is there a good chance of you getting into quarter finals, or do you need 3 points?

Also, it's very tough to score against team that is defending with all of its 5 men plus goalie. Even if the team is little weaker.. it's tough to score then.

Winston · May 2, 2003, 20:38

I'm not sure what is needed in the next games for us to advance. I think there's only a microscopic chance to take home any points against those teams, so I haven't really looked into it.

It does however prove once again that what you said before the match against the Swiss was very true. Had we gotten a tie or a win there, things would actually now be pointing to a place in the quarterfinals. But Denmark was no match against Switzerland.

We'll just see how it goes. I do believe we've been close against Latvia before though.

Northern Baltics, then.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 20:48

Yeah, if you only would have defeated them.. man it would be very exciting for you now!
You still have a chance, I'm just not sure if defeating Latvia is enough. Latvia is very skilled team though, maybe not the best in the games, but they have lots of individual skill there. I figure you still have a fairly good chance there.. scoring early, maybe at the end of the first period would do it.

Ok here are the standings in your group right now:

Team GP W T L GF GA TP
1 Canada 3 2 1 0 11 4 5
2 Russia 2 2 0 0 11 3 4
3 Switzerland 2 1 0 1 8 7 2
4 Sweden 2 1 0 1 4 4 2
5 Denmark 3 0 1 2 5 14 1
6 Latvia 2 0 0 2 2 9 0

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 20:50

Damn.. Standings didn't print out like I hoped them to print out

.

Anyway GP=Games Played, W=Wins, T=Ties, L=Losses, GF=Goals Scored (Don't know the F), GA=Goals against you (Don't know the A..) and finally TP= Total Points.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 20:55

So analyzing it for Denmark, you have played 3 games already, others (excluding Canada) have played only 2. You want to be in top 4 to qualify.. Latvia is still at 0 points, and Switzerland is at 2 points (you having 1 point).. so if you win Latvia, they'll still be at zero points, and you being at 3 points, Switzerland still being at 2 points. So.. if Russia and Sweden play like they're supposed to play (assuming that Canada wins that group), it's all about Latvia-Denmark-Switzerland. If you win Latvia... and Latvia wins Switzerland....

Winston · May 2, 2003, 21:09

Yes, it is still possible. The part about beating Latvia is still a BIG if though.

Heck if all goes well for both of us, I guess it's Finland-Denmark in the quarterfinal, eh? I might just have to get myself on a plane then to Tampere or Turku or wherever it is!

I like the way the tournament is set up BTW. Taking points from two preliminary matches with you and being grouped with the other advancing teams + 3 new ones. It makes for exciting and important matches even from the start. Not like in e.g. handball ch'ships where the first 3-4 matches are essentially warm-ups for the favourite teams. This hockey finals system enhances the value of victory margins from early on.

GF and GA are probably Goals For and Goals Against.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 21:25

I don't think so.. You see in quarter finals they play A1-B4 (first groups 1st against second group 4th)..

So if you manage to beat Latvia and all other games goes well, you'd be 4th.. you'd be playing our groups 1st team

. That would be Czech or Slovakia.. I think we'll be 3rd in our group, so we'll be playing against your groups 2nd team, most likely Sweden or Russia.
it'll be a barn burner for sure!

Yeah, you got that GF and GA official meanings figured out for me, thanks

The system itself is pretty good.. just like you said. Looks like you're playing against Sweden tomorrow. It would be huge to even tie with them, but a good game none of the less will be good. When your teams players realize they can play with the best (Forsberg etc) and give them trouble, they'll get that confidence they need to play against Latvia.. If even close lost.. It's still good, then they believe they can beat Latvia, and then it gets interesting. And if that happens.. and you will be against Slovakians or Czechs.. well.. it's quarter finals, anything can happen!

Winston · May 2, 2003, 21:56

Oh, I thought you were contestants for a group win, but now I see you couldn't have been after the Slovakia game.

I have to get myself more acquainted with these finals. There are too many things I don't know. Hrmph, wasn't prepared for my team doing so well.

Sweden is already tomorrow? I must watch that on my almost retired TV set then. I haven't had my TV on since late January... but this is a good occasion I think.

Pekka · May 2, 2003, 22:02

Yeah, it looks like its an evening game, starting at 20.00 local time, would be.. 19.00 for you? But I must warn you.. Swedes are very very strong this year.. but anything can happen. The Latvia game is in Tuesday, and depending how things goes, it's either your last game, or not.

Anyway I'm off to bed, it's early already. Good Luck!

JohnT · May 2, 2003, 23:24

It's not looking good for my country's national hockey team if nobody from America bothers to post in a thread about them. It's a sad state of affairs for ice hockey when you get a livelier American response in a thread about US football/soccer teams.

Winston · May 3, 2003, 00:00

It has always puzzled me how Americans seem to take absolutely no interest in their national team in any sport, except when the Olympics are on - and even then, whatever amount of enthusiasm is built up, it's gone in no time at all afterwards.

And the same with the Football/Soccer World Cup. Every 4 years, a bit of enthusiasm from some people, but once the finals are over, no interest in building up/maintaining a team of importance and strength suitable for the country's size and potential.

In sports, it's like the rest of the world doesn't exist to Americans. Except in 'professional team' ice hockey where the existance of Canadian teams is acknowledged for the purpose of playing the Stanley Cup...

JohnT · May 3, 2003, 00:06

Our best athletes in our most popular sports go to the professionals. That's why.

Winston · May 3, 2003, 00:09

So do European athletes, but national team sports are very strong here. With professionals participating.

JohnT · May 3, 2003, 00:52

Your countries are (mostly) small, making your fan base more concentrated. That probably has something to do with it.

Pekka · May 3, 2003, 10:25

Every country loves WC, except the US. Even Canada follows it just a little bit. US is the only one with complete ingorance to the games, and the games todays are very high level with best pro players too. These games are filled with THE best pro players from NHL. They want to win it, they appreciate it, they like to represent their country. So, this is problem Americas problem. Not ours.

Pekka · May 3, 2003, 10:57

Doesn't look good for Denmark.. Switzerland is winning Latvia here.. Denmark needs Latvia to win. Or they have to win Sweden AND Latvia.. Oh well.. even without Denmark advacing to quarter finals, they have played helluva games.

Flubber · May 3, 2003, 11:03

People in Canada aren't following these championships much since most attention is focused on the NHL playoffs. Besides, these games hardly matter, except as a method to get your team playing well. The Canadian team is certain to make the quarters and then its single elimination games so everything that went before is pretty much irrelevant . . . It does determine opponents but with the increased parity, thats less of an advantage compared to even 5 years ago.

That said, it is almost certain that the medallists will come from the big 6 of Russia, Canada, Sweden Czechs, Slovaks and Finland. These 6 have taken every medal since 1997 (USA bronze in 1996) and all but one since 1962 when the US took a bronze). Everyone else would be delighted to just win a quarterfinal game and truthfully most are delighted just to get to play in one ( making the top 8)

For the top teams, there was always the debate over whether you even want to finish at the top of your group since players have a tougher time getting motivated for a supposed "easy game" in the quarters. The theory was that it was better to have a tougher contest to sharpen the team.

Pekka · May 3, 2003, 11:06

Flubber,Sure. But at least some Canadians check out the results from internet

.
Well are there any other countries that would be real challenge, lets say in olympics or world cup? Or is it just, that the US and Canada don't care about international games at all?

Flubber · May 3, 2003, 11:16

Canada cared about the Olympics as did the US and the result was Canadian gold. Canada also cared at Nagano but Hasek stole the game (semis) with his brilliance and the team couldn't get it together for the bronze.

Canada cares about international hockey but the placement of the IIHF worlds during the NHL playoffs means that the very best players-- from pretty much all countries but more so from the elite nations, are not available. Its hard to get excited about the worlds when its not a contest of best vs best. Also , the gap between the best teams and the rest would be greater.

Note: don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good players there and some good hockey but it hardly elicits much in the way of bragging rights.

Personally, I'm not watching anything except highlights until the quarters when I will try to watch the games

Pekka · May 3, 2003, 11:21

You mean to say we beat you guys in Nagano?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Peter Forsberg IS the best player in the world right now? He is in the games.. so is Sundin and maybe rookie of the year, Zetterberg for Sweden. So I wouldn't say they are that bad.. Only one who scored over 50 goals? Hejduk.. plays for the Czechs.. etc etc list goes on.

But I know what you mean... people get really excited when quarter finals are played.. the first games are not that important, since they always go the same way, same countries getting into those games. And if we think about it from players view, if there was only one thing they could win.. everyone would say 'Stanley Cup'.
So sure, that means the most for the players.
And don't get me wrong, I follow NHL very closely, I like NHL more than any other league or tournament.
It's just that now I have two things to follow, good hockey in both, so I don't know why I should concentrate only for the other one..

Winston · May 3, 2003, 13:06

Shute. I can't even watch Sweden-Denmark, which has just started. None of the channels I have are showing it.

I found a teletext page with updates though.

Go Denmark!

cinch · May 3, 2003, 13:27

Quote:

People in Canada aren't following these championships much since most attention is focused on the NHL playoffs

That's true, in a way, but I think you may be undervaluing the interest in the WHC here. Sure, the games don't get watched too much, mostly due to their outrageously early times, but on the highlight shows, WHC highlights usually come directly after NHL ones, preceding basketball, baseball, soccer, etc. The WHC can't match NHL-style interest, but it's not in danger of being forgotten.

************************

Also, as for this tourney not being worth much, because it doesn't feature the "best of the best"... I suppose it's arguable, but I'd, personally, rather watch a Team Canada featuring Dany Heatley, Daniel Briere, & Steve Staios, than the same-ol'-same-ol' of Shanahan, Lindros, & Niedermayer.

It makes for exciting hockey.

Winston · May 3, 2003, 13:39

Sweden-Denmark 1-1 after (presumably) the first period.

He-he.

Pekka · May 3, 2003, 13:42

cinch, yeah, Canada has decent team this year. They play exciting hockey and try hard.. and are having success so far. I didn't take into account that the times are horrible for you guys.. Too bad. It would be cool if they held it in Canada soon, or the US.