Definitive Proof of an Iraq-Al Queda Link

[Timexwatch]

Here's the article from the Telegraph:

The proof that Saddam worked with bin Laden
By Inigo Gilmore
(Filed: 27/04/2003)


Iraqi intelligence documents discovered in Baghdad by The Telegraph have provided the first evidence of a direct link between Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda terrorist network and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Papers found yesterday in the bombed headquarters of the Mukhabarat, Iraq's intelligence service, reveal that an al-Qa'eda envoy was invited clandestinely to Baghdad in March 1998.

The documents show that the purpose of the meeting was to establish a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qa'eda based on their mutual hatred of America and Saudi Arabia. The meeting apparently went so well that it was extended by a week and ended with arrangements being discussed for bin Laden to visit Baghdad.

The papers will be seized on by Washington as the first proof of what the United States has long alleged - that, despite denials by both sides, Saddam's regime had a close relationship with al-Qa'eda.

The Telegraph found the file on bin Laden inside a folder lying in the rubble of one of the rooms of the destroyed intelligence HQ. There are three pages, stapled together; two are on paper headed with the insignia and lettering of the Mukhabarat.

They show correspondence between Mukhabarat agencies over preparations for the visit of al-Qa'eda's envoy, who travelled to Iraq from Sudan, where bin Laden had been based until 1996. They disclose what Baghdad hopes to achieve from the meeting, which took place less than five months before bin Laden was placed at the top of America's most wanted list following the bombing of two US embassies in east Africa.

Perhaps aware of the sensitivities of the subject matter, Iraqi agents at some point clumsily attempted to mask out all references to bin Laden, using white correcting fluid. The dried fluid was removed to reveal the clearly legible name three times in the documents.

One paper is marked "Top Secret and Urgent". It is signed "MDA", a codename believed to be the director of one of the intelligence sections within the Mukhabarat, and dated February 19, 1998. It refers to the planned trip from Sudan by bin Laden's unnamed envoy and refers to the arrangements for his visit.

A letter with this document says the envoy is a trusted confidant of bin Laden. It adds: "According to the above, we suggest permission to call the Khartoum station [Iraq's intelligence office in Sudan] to facilitate the travel arrangements for the above-mentioned person to Iraq. And that our body carry all the travel and hotel costs inside Iraq to gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden."

The letter refers to al-Qa'eda's leader as an opponent of the Saudi Arabian regime and says that the message to convey to him through the envoy "would relate to the future of our relationship with him, bin Laden, and to achieve a direct meeting with him."

According to handwritten notes at the bottom of the page, the letter was passed on through another director in the Mukhabarat and on to the deputy director general of the intelligence service.

It recommends that "the deputy director general bring the envoy to Iraq because we may find in this envoy a way to maintain contacts with bin Laden". The deputy director general has signed the document. All of the signatories use codenames.

The other documents then confirm that the envoy travelled from Khartoum to Baghdad in March 1998, staying at al-Mansour Melia, a first-class hotel. It mentions that his visit was extended by a week. In the notes in a margin, a name "Mohammed F. Mohammed Ahmed" is mentioned, but it is not clear whether this is the the envoy or an agent.

Intriguingly, the Iraqis talk about sending back an oral message to bin Laden, perhaps aware of the risk of a written message being intercepted. However, the documents do not mention if any meeting took place between bin Laden and Iraqi officials.

The file contradicts the claims of Baghdad, bin Laden and many critics of the coalition that there was no link between the Iraqi regime and al-Qa'eda. One Western intelligence official contacted last night described the file as "sensational", adding: "Baghdad clearly sought out the meeting. The regime would have wanted it to happen in the capital as it's only there they would feel safe from surveillance by Western intelligence."

Over the past three weeks, The Telegraph has discovered various other intelligence files in the wrecked Mukhabarat building, including documents revealing how Russia passed on to Iraq details of private conversations between Tony Blair and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, and how Germany held clandestine meetings with the regime.

A Downing Street spokesman said last night: "Since Saddam's fall a series of documents have come to light which will have to be fully assessed by the proper authorities over a period of time. We will certainly want to study these documents as part of that process to see if they shed new light on the relationship between Saddam's regime and al-Qa'eda.

..Link


Let the "See, I told you so!"ing begin

[Giancarlo]

Sheesh. I knew a discovery like this would occur. What will the opponents say now?

[DRoseDARs]

This was posted moments before in the official Gulf War II thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...53#post1941853

Well, at least now the Bush Administration has PHYSICAL evidence instead of gossip and heresay...

[Edan]

Man, thats old news. I posted that a whole minute before you did.

[Giancarlo]

Well, at least now the Bush Administration has PHYSICAL evidence instead of gossip and heresay...

I got a feeling there was some physical evidence the Bush adminstration had, but just didn't release it for some reasons.

[Edan]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Well, at least now the Bush Administration has PHYSICAL evidence instead of gossip and heresay...

You think all that intelligence is is just gossip and hearsay?

Unless you meant what was presented to the people, which, no doubt, was not the complete intelligence they had.

[Ted Striker]

The link is there. This shows intention, but not specific acts, however, it's only the start.

Iraq DID do trade center 1 though.

For sure.

[GePap]

definite proof! hillarious!

Did anything else happen? Did Osama ever visit? Did Iraq give any money, training, weapons, or vice versa?

It would be too easy and cheap to atatck the source, but it is not needed, since this is so absrud as "clear proof" that it is unnecessary.



After all this time, this is the best tha can be shown (hey, anyone remember Ansar Al-Islam? what happened to all the documents we took form them a month ago? found any links to the Saddam regime as alledged?)?

So you guys can;t show me any current ties, any cooperation, no WMD programs yet, so this is the big "I told you So"!? Pathetic.

[TCO]

1. I find it hard to beleive that the two organizations did not know each other and at least in some sense consider themselves in common cause. Our experience with other terror organizations has shown that their is a loose set of supports and favor-exchanges that these organizations do.

2. The states that support terror are one of the things that help terror orgs. I don't think that we have the type of connection between OBL and Saddam, that the Taliban did (well...duh!) Still, I think OBL was an Islamic terrorist. And Iraq did have active support for Islamic terror (in general). The Klinghoffer murderer was captured in Bagdhad and had been there for quite some time with the support of the regime. They have funded terror elements in the PLO, etc.

3. So I don't think we can look at going after Saddam in the same light as how we went after the Taliban. But it is still an attack on state-sponsored terror.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by GePap


definite proof! hillarious!

Did anything else happen? Did Osama ever visit? Did Iraq give any money, training, weapons, or vice versa?

It would be too easy and cheap to atatck the source, but it is not needed, since this is so absrud as "clear proof" that it is unnecessary.



After all this time, this is the best tha can be shown (hey, anyone remember Ansar Al-Islam? what happened to all the documents we took form them a month ago? found any links to the Saddam regime as alledged?)?

So you guys can;t show me any current ties, any cooperation, no WMD programs yet, so this is the big "I told you So"!? Pathetic.

You are in denial.

[DRoseDARs]

I place greater weight with written documents, photos, vials of bio-chems than I do with *Top Secret* and information gathered by *Top Secret*. Our legal system REQUIRES the presentation of evidence, almost always physical evidence, in order to prosecute the accused. Otherwise, your case is going to be weak.

I never said there WASN'T a connection 'tween bin Laden and Saddam (wouldn't have suprised me) just as I never said Iraq DIDN'T have wmd's (which would suprise me if they DIDN'T). The Bush Administration NEEDS to have physical proof of their accusations less they look like "thugs and babarians" to quote one Iraqi comedian...

...You gotta that guy.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Fez


You are in denial.

Red herring perhaps?

[Ted Striker]

I prefer red trout, much tastier than salmon.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Red herring perhaps?

I prefer Patagonian Toothfish. Endangered.. but I don't care...

[TCO]

Making me hungry. Dayum!

[Spiffor]

If I understand correctly, these "sentational" data shows that Al-Qaeda operatives have approached Saddam's regime.

Wow, that's absolutely flabbergasting

Let me sum it up : a terrorist organization, whose fundamentals is the hate of the US and religious fanaticism happens to enter in contact with a regime that hates the US and shares the same religion (depite being laical). Do we have any information on whether these contacts had any result ? Do we have any information on whether Iraq gave any money/weapons/harboring to Al-Qaeda people ? AFAIU, no.

What we see is that Al Qaeda took contact with the Iraqi intelligence in 1998, shortly after the embassy attacks, at the point Al Qaeda was in clear expansion. To afford such an expansion, Al Qaeda had to find active support from Muslim countries, or at least some tolerance from them. To do this, they have contacted these countries. I'm pretty much sure all Arabic countries + Pakistan + Sudan have been contacted, as well as some smaller Central Asia countries, and African tinpot dictatorships.

That they entered in contact with these countries doesn't mean anything. Otherwise, half of Asia and a good chunk of Africa should be bombed because of their "objective links with Al Qaeda"

I'll continue to think the Bushies blatantly lie about this topic until I see solid proof that Saddam's regime has helped the terrorist organization with money, weapons and protection. And by "solid", I mean proofs that are acknowledged by something more trustworthy than the US and its coalition of bootlickers.

This "sentational" document doesn't prove anything, and is just used as some cheap sensationalism by the Telegraph.

[Dauphin]

The Telegraph also broke the Galloway story. I think we need to wonder where and how they are getting all their wonderful information from. Oh right, totally burnt out buildings.

I want some more developed stories rather than circulation boosting pieces.

[Drake Tungsten]

Wow, this article got some people's panties in a bunch.

[Bereta_Eder]

daily telegraph is a crap newspaper. as is most of the brit press.

need to learn another language presto and red other press.

[orange]

Did this strike anyone else as just a little too convenient?

The Telegraph found the file on bin Laden inside a folder lying in the rubble of one of the rooms of the destroyed intelligence HQ. There are three pages, stapled together; two are on paper headed with the insignia and lettering of the Mukhabarat.

[GePap]

Lets condence the report to the basic facts:

In march 1998, Iraqi agents approached Al Qaeda and then had a meeting. The Iraqis think it went werll and talk about inviting Osama, then........NOTHING.

Did a second meeeting ever occur? Did any sort of relation crop up? Any evidence that Iraq ever gave any material or intelligence support to Al Qaeda?

The argument pre-war was that Iraq would give WMD's to Al Qaeda to use vs the US: does this paper imrpove this basic argument in any real way? I say, no.

Look at the article itself: other storieds this reporter, who somehow is being left alone to search the burned and looted headquarters of the secret police without, well, supervision (seems weird) has broken a bunch of stories, or so we are told: how many of them have been picked up by other sources and investigate further? How many? The Blair-Russia piece, the German piece also mentioned? (hell, it didn;t even make it to Poly, that one!) If I remember, back in 2001 Czech intelligeence told us Atta met with Iraqi agents in Prague: what happeend to that report?

So let me put it as simply as possible. The report is suspect, but even if we assume everythign in it is true, it tells us nothing about Iraq and Al Qaeda as of 9/11 2001 and beyond. That is the last i will say on this.

[Drake Tungsten]

Did this strike anyone else as just a little too convenient?

I sweet-talked my way into dreaded intelligence HQ
(Filed: 27/04/2003)

Inigo Gilmore describes how he gained access to documents in the complex that most Iraqis under Saddam were desperate to avoid.

The documents which provide the first proof of direct links between Osama bin Laden and the regime of Saddam Hussein were hidden deep inside a building which for decades was one of the most feared places in Iraq.

During Saddam's time, few civilians dared even glance at the imposing headquarters of the Mukbaharat - the feared intelligence service - as they drove past in case they were hauled in and questioned.

For me, however, the difficulty was sweet-talking the American soldiers from the 3rd Infantry division who now manage the bombed-out premises. Soldiers were slumbering on a tank turret as I attempted to play the innocent. "Just wanted to take a little look around," I told the burly lieutenant who challenged me at the gates.

My request was considered for a few moments - as were the bona fides of Amir, my interpreter, who had wearily trawled around various government buildings with me all week. As the soldiers idly fingered their trigger-guards, our hearts pounded in the sweltering heat: then the lieutenant waved us through.

"It's like a dream," said Amir. "I never imagined I would see inside this forbidden place in my life." Once inside the sprawling complex, with its hedges, sculptures and verdant gardens, we walked straight ahead towards a big bombed-out building, gutted by fire and looted a few days earlier.

Behind it, we found another six-storey concrete building that had been pulverised and was dangerously decrepit.

It was impossible to get through the main entrance but we were able to clamber through a hole at the side where a door had once been. The stairs were covered with rubble, the walls cracked and crumbling.

Crunching broken glass underfoot, we made our way gingerly up the stairs, fearing that the building might collapse at any moment. Moving quickly around the first floor we entered what we believed to be an accounting office for Iraqi intelligence. Rifling through the box folders we found one or two that appeared to be interesting.

The labels were often unclear, but Amir believed that one file related to money paid to guests of the intelligence service. (The contents of the documents were later verified by another interpreter in Baghdad, and in London by an Arabic speaking Whitehall official.) We stuffed some papers into a bag and headed out before we were discovered.

Back at the hotel as we searched through the papers something caught the eye: in three places on one page names had been covered with correcting fluid. We scraped it away with a razor blade. Beneath it appeared a name few had dared believe would ever be linked directly to the regime of Saddam: bin Laden, the world's most wanted man.

Amir grinned and said simply: "Thanks be to God."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...27/walq227.xml

[Apocalypse]

Whoa whoa whoa folks, let's back this up a bit and avoid a more complicated debate than necessary:

daily telegraph is a crap newspaper. as is most of the brit press.

need to learn another language presto and red other press.

I'm still rather astonished at the raw irony and furthered political embarrassment for the inept Greeks this multi-faceted literary gem provides. Please gather around Paiktis and share like disdain if your face saving views so permit!

[orange]

is it possible that the man made a typo? Jeez...the guy is Greek and he speaks near perfect English...

...how good is your Greek?

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by orange
is it possible that the man made a typo? Jeez...the guy is Greek and he speaks near perfect English...

...how good is your Greek?

He made more than a few typos. That horrendous grammar coupled with boasting of learning a new language to "red good press" has me in a fit of hysteria. Now of course I'd let even that combination of uneducated drivel go if I didn't already think he should shut the **** up for a while after being kicked in the nuts for the 500, 000 figure.

To answer your question, I don't speak worthless, dying languages (What an Anglo jerkface!)

[Spiffor]

I guess you must speak perfect Mandarin or Arabic then

[Apocalypse]

Ok guys, let me walk you through the basic facts you seem to have persistent trouble with here:

A - I'm not the one bragging of poor bilingual "skill" in trying to discredit an event contrary to personal belief. My English press reds pretty well, after all HAHAHAHAHA
B - Mandarin and Arabic are as well absolutely useless and ultimately dying. Try English or Spanish, unless you think there's actually business available in the former dirt pits within your lifetime (Edit by Apoc: I actually almost signed up to take Arabic in college, but I decided on Japanese)

I can't hold your limp wrist, idiot coddling hands through these things all the time (especially when banned)

So from Mingapulco, g'night!

[Giancarlo]

Goodness Apocalypse, you turned into a real annoyance.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Fez
Goodness Apocalypse, you turned into a real annoyance.

I didn't write any of that though...I'm just quoting a source.

And I seem to remember back a few months ago when you mentioned something about not wanting to fight with me.

[Giancarlo]

You at one point were kinda charming I must admit.. but now... you attack a poor greek guy over one minor typo... yikes.