 |
View Poll Results: For or against Bush's tax cut?
|
 |
I'm for it. It's my money and I'm eager to use it or save it.
|
  
|
9 |
20.00% |
I'm for a smaller tax cut.
|
  
|
7 |
15.56% |
No! It's crazy, makes no sense, don't like it, country can't afford it, bad idea, etc...
|
  
|
28 |
62.22% |
The 'banana option' option.
|
  
|
1 |
2.22% |
|
April 27, 2003, 02:10
|
#1
|
Deity
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
|
The 'Tax Cut, For or Against' thread
Are you for Bush's tax cut or against?
__________________
I'm not profane, I type the stars.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 02:15
|
#2
|
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
|
*points to the political views poll thread*
I think I can predict the end result  .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 02:20
|
#3
|
Emperor
Local Time: 03:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
|
against. But I don't care, really.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 02:35
|
#4
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
|
i don't care at all. why?
because as a student, i don't really pay any.
if i earned just a little more, i wouldn't like it.
if i earned a lot more, i would.
i don't quite believe we as a country can afford it, but hey, if the government's giving me back my money, i'll take it.
__________________
B♭3
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 03:02
|
#5
|
Deity
Local Time: 17:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
|
I only support tax cuts with a reduction in spending. running up the deficit isn't my idea of improving the economy.
but at least they did half the job right.
but the republicans spending really pisses me off. They are supposed to spend less than democrats dammit!
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 03:21
|
#6
|
Deity
Local Time: 02:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
|
More... much more
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:08
|
#7
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
I support tax cuts to the poor and middle classes. But not now. Deficits spending on this magnitude has more of a negative effect on the economy than any possible (if any) positive effect tax cuts might have. I certainly don't support Bush's "let's give money to rich people" strategy. The man should be ashamed of himself for lying to the American people.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:16
|
#8
|
Local Time: 02:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
|
Tax cuts are evil.
ALL HAIL THE 100% TAX !!!
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:21
|
#9
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
I wouldn't mind a 75% tax. No really. If you consider you don't have to worry about energy bills, doctor bills, insurance costs, or education costs. A 75% tax is nothing. It's sad that people demonize the percentages but don't look at the reality that for over 2/3rds of Americans, the costs I mentioned exceed 100% of their income anyways. And if Americans cared enough about their government, they could stop the corporate pork and abuse that costs them billions each year.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:41
|
#10
|
Local Time: 02:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Sava
No really. If you consider you don't have to worry about energy bills, doctor bills, insurance costs, or education costs. A 75% tax is nothing.
|
Absolutely. I'm amazed by the people who say "If I didn't pay so much taxes, I could afford it anyways !", when referring to a service that is free thanks to taxation.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:43
|
#11
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Sava
I wouldn't mind a 75% tax. No really. If you consider you don't have to worry about energy bills, doctor bills, insurance costs, or education costs. A 75% tax is nothing. It's sad that people demonize the percentages but don't look at the reality that for over 2/3rds of Americans, the costs I mentioned exceed 100% of their income anyways. And if Americans cared enough about their government, they could stop the corporate pork and abuse that costs them billions each year.
|
You must have been Gore's "fuzzy math" advisor.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:47
|
#12
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
Sure MtG...
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:47
|
#13
|
Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
|
The tax cuts don't benefit the poor because for the most part the poor DON'T PAY TAXES IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Also, Bush doesn't have the political power to cut spending the way it should be. Thus, running up a deficit is the only way to force Congress to cut spending. Yes, it's twisted logic, but that's politics.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:48
|
#14
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,213
|
Bush's tax cut as is is pretty small, doesn't reduce the marginal tax rate by that much, seems like he is just trying to give the economy a small push to boost the recovery
__________________
"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:49
|
#15
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
The middle class pays the most taxes. And they also will not see hardly any benefit. What good is a $400 tax cut when your 401k is gone?
If you want to save money in government. Stop the corporate fraud and corporate pork.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:50
|
#16
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:51
|
#17
|
Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
|
The middle class pays the most in taxes COLLECTIVELY. That's because there are MORE of them. No duh. Individually, the upper class pay a far higher amount, as a straight number and as a percentage, than middle class.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:54
|
#18
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by skywalker
The tax cuts don't benefit the poor because for the most part the poor DON'T PAY TAXES IN THE FIRST PLACE!
|
The working poor and lower middle classes get screwed by FICA taxes and state sales taxes on the majority of items they must purchase for day to day living. The dollar amount of federal income taxes don't exceed those two items until you get to a fairly healthy income level, especially if you consider the employer's matching payment of FICA (assuming that went down, you'd have some combination of increased wages or cash available to the employer for other purposes).
Quote:
|
Also, Bush doesn't have the political power to cut spending the way it should be. Thus, running up a deficit is the only way to force Congress to cut spending. Yes, it's twisted logic, but that's politics.
|
 Bush doesn't have the power to cut taxes either, that takes the same votes from the same Congress that cutting spending takes. Bush has a Republican Congress, so if they're such corporate whores they won't fall into line, then I guess we know who really runs the country.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:55
|
#19
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
Quote:
|
Individually, the upper class pay a far higher amount, as a straight number and as a percentage, than middle class.
|
The fallacy of progressive taxing in this country is that corporate tax credits aren't taken into consideration. In fact, Bush is a good example of this. He made a lot of money on a no-interest loan that was forgiven (i.e. never paid back). And with the emergence of multi-national corporations and other entities changing their addresses to Bermuda and other tax havens. The collective upper 1% pay far less of a percentage of taxes than the middle class.
Also, look at the value of the taxes to people. The $30,000 that a family of 4 making $75,000 might pay is a lot more valuable than the millions some rich corporate exec might pay.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:56
|
#20
|
Emperor
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
|
With the Administration projecting deficits for 50 years, even without the taxcut, I can't see how this is in any way, an intelligent idea. It's simply passing the taxes on to your chiildren and grandchildren.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:57
|
#21
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
Also, Social Security taxes are capped at $60,000 I believe. Progressive indeed.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:57
|
#22
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by skywalker
The middle class pays the most in taxes COLLECTIVELY. That's because there are MORE of them. No duh. Individually, the upper class pay a far higher amount, as a straight number and as a percentage, than middle class.
|
From an economics and policy perspective, which is the point of the thread, nobody gives a **** about individuals, it is ONLY the gross effect on budget numbers and economic stimulus that are meaningful.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 12:57
|
#23
|
King
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 2,247
|
Quote:
|
'Tax Cut, For or Against'
|
In the EU area? Why yes, sure.
In the United States? I wouldn't think that it would be pretty wise, with such deficits.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:01
|
#24
|
Apolyton Grand Executioner
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Sava
Also, Social Security taxes are capped at $60,000 I believe. Progressive indeed.
|
Around $86,000 or so this year - it gets indexed for inflation every year, so I haven't looked up the 2003 number yet.
The medicare portion caps much higher, around the $150-160k range. However, benefits, such as they are, also cap, so the progressive/regressive label is meaningless if you assume that payees into the system will in fact receive benefits from the system.
The problems with SS are structural, i.e. a lot of people either outlive the assumptions of the benefit formula, and draw more than they ever put in, while other people, and especially survivors, get screwed.
Of course, I'd be surprised if you were in favor of privatization, which is the only real long-term solution.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:05
|
#25
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Around $86,000 or so this year - it gets indexed for inflation every year, so I haven't looked up the 2003 number yet.
The medicare portion caps much higher, around the $150-160k range. However, benefits, such as they are, also cap, so the progressive/regressive label is meaningless if you assume that payees into the system will in fact receive benefits from the system.
The problems with SS are structural, i.e. a lot of people either outlive the assumptions of the benefit formula, and draw more than they ever put in, while other people, and especially survivors, get screwed.
Of course, I'd be surprised if you were in favor of privatization, which is the only real long-term solution.
|
Ah yes, I knew it was in the 5 figure range. Surely this is fair for someone making a 7 to 9 figure salary. Anyone making over 8.6 million is paying less than 1% to social security.
And yes, there' privatization. I'm surprised somebody as educated as yourself would believe it's claims. Maybe you don't have any 401k's. Ask anyone with a 401k if they want to trust their retirement money to private investments.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:08
|
#26
|
Local Time: 02:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
|
Can anyone tell me what a 401k is ?
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:08
|
#27
|
Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
|
A type of retirement plan.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:11
|
#28
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Spiffor
Can anyone tell me what a 401k is ?
|
A retirement plan that is basically linked to a company's stock. In the past few decades, companies have stopped giving guaranteed pensions to anyone who isn't a corporate exec or CEO. In the place of the pension, the 401k stands. In reality, it really just gives more of other people's money to Wall Street people to play around with.
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:28
|
#29
|
Emperor
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 4,790
|
Poor people benefit most from the tax cut in terms of "what am I paying now vs what will I be paying." The richest quarter of the population has their taxes reduced very little percentage-wise, but it comes out to a lot because they pay the most. (The richest 1% pays about 26% of all taxes.) I think the wealthiest go from 39% income taxes to 36, and the poorest go from 15% to 10.
So IMO the "benifits only the wealthy" stuff is bullshit. However the fact that Bush isn't cutting spending is what bothers me. The National Debt isn't a problem right now, but it will be if Republicans continue cutting taxes while keeping spending the same, and Democrats continue raising spending while keeping taxes the same.
However, the government is giving me money. I'll take it.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
|
|
|
|
April 27, 2003, 13:47
|
#30
|
Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
|
So Jaguar, does that explain how Democrats brought surpluses? And how a projected 4.6 trillion dollar surplus turned into a 5 trillion dollar deficit?
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 20:16.
|
|