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View Poll Results: For or against Bush's tax cut?
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I'm for it. It's my money and I'm eager to use it or save it.
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20.00% |
I'm for a smaller tax cut.
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15.56% |
No! It's crazy, makes no sense, don't like it, country can't afford it, bad idea, etc...
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62.22% |
The 'banana option' option.
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2.22% |
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April 27, 2003, 14:01
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#31
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Deity
Local Time: 17:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Bohol
Posts: 13,381
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During the 1964 Presidental election (when I supported conservative Republicanism), Barry Goldwater convinced me of the virtues of a balanced budget. Even though I have long since embraced liberalism, this is one value I never abandoned.
Bush's proposed tax cut make no sense. It does virtually nothing to help the lower or middle classes. Instead, the tax cut is once again aimed at cutting the tax burden on those Americans who can best afford to pay for necessary government programs.
It is American consumers who drive this economies, not fat cats who will take their tax cut and, with it, buy French chateaus, Italian art and Japanese vacations.
The decision to make passive income non-taxable helps only the wealthy. Although middle class taxpayers do own stock, they keep almost all of it in retirement accounts, which are already non-taxible. Meanwhile, their salaries and other active income sources continued to be taxed.
If one wishes to give this economy a "shot in the arm," any tax cuts should be aimed at the people who will spend it in America-- namely, the middle class.
But once again, this administration has not only turned its back on the needs of the middle class, it is running up record deficits which we will have to pay in the future.
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April 27, 2003, 14:01
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#32
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Emperor
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 4,790
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sava
So Jaguar, does that explain how Democrats brought surpluses? And how a projected 4.6 trillion dollar surplus turned into a 5 trillion dollar deficit?
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Clinton brought a surplus by using a Herbert Hoover economic plan, which generally causes the economy to crash.
The dow jones lost nearly 2000 points in the last 350 days of Clinton's presidency. It has continued on this trend, aided by 9-11.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
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April 27, 2003, 14:13
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#33
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
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Actually, corporate corruption caused the stock market bubble to burst. Clinton didn't have much of anything to do with CFO's, stock brokers, and bankers cooking the books. But go ahead believing he did if it makes you feel good. Clinton's economic policy of creating surpluses helped the economy. Period. The downturn, which would have occurred regardless, has been made worse by corporate corruption and Bush's stupid policies.
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April 27, 2003, 14:32
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#34
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Emperor
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 4,790
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sava
Actually, corporate corruption caused the stock market bubble to burst.
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OK, there we go. It was neither Bush nor Clinton's fault.  That is what I believe, but the only way to get liberals to admit it is by blaming it on Clinton.
__________________
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
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April 27, 2003, 14:34
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#35
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The cities of Orly and Nowai
Posts: 4,228
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sava, didn't you know it's still clintons fault because of his poor example leading the country with lax morals?
he's single-handedly at fault for alqaeda, the economy in the tank, srebenica, the north korean crisis, saddam, the dreck we have on tv, and the coming antichrist?
__________________
B♭3
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April 27, 2003, 14:45
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#36
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fenway Pahk
Posts: 1,755
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sava
Actually, corporate corruption caused the stock market bubble to burst. Clinton didn't have much of anything to do with CFO's, stock brokers, and bankers cooking the books. But go ahead believing he did if it makes you feel good. Clinton's economic policy of creating surpluses helped the economy. Period. The downturn, which would have occurred regardless, has been made worse by corporate corruption and Bush's stupid policies.
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Clinton did have a lot to do with the regulatory and enforcement climate that allowed that to happen so much and so blatantly. After all, he did run the regulatory and enforcement agencies.
__________________
Bush-Cheney 2008. What's another amendment between friends?
*******
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all.
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April 27, 2003, 14:49
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#37
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Long term deficit spending is a really bad idea.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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April 27, 2003, 14:50
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#38
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Deity
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
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Clinton rode the upward trend that resulted from Reaganomics. It was so good even he couldn't **** it up...largely because the conservatives in congress held his spending in check.
Remember Hilary and the awful healthcare plan she came up with? A healthcare plan for insurance companies paid for by Joe Taxpayer. Thank God for a conservative majority in congress!
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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April 27, 2003, 15:35
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#39
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: mmmm sweet
Posts: 3,041
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April 27, 2003, 15:41
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#40
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Emperor
Local Time: 02:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Posts: 5,301
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Quote:
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During the 1964 Presidental election (when I supported conservative Republicanism), Barry Goldwater convinced me of the virtues of a balanced budget.
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For some reason I had you pegged as a twentysomething!
It's probably that wonderful Internet anonymity - until proven otherwise everyone's a straight white middle class male twentysomething.
__________________
"Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
"That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world
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April 27, 2003, 16:22
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#41
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,213
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Keep a record of this post folks, usually Sava's arguments are far less intelligent.
Bush's tax cut IIRC reduces the top marginal rate from 39.6% to around 35%
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"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
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April 27, 2003, 16:24
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#42
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,213
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Short term deficits aren't the worst thing in the world. In fact, if you are concerned about the economy slipping into a recession, then you won't want to balance the budget.
__________________
"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
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April 27, 2003, 16:25
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#43
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Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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The deficits are the only possible way to get Congress to cut spending, which is the best solution, long-term.
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[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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April 27, 2003, 16:28
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#44
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King
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 2,247
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Quote:
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Clinton rode the upward trend that resulted from Reaganomics. It was so good even he couldn't **** it up...largely because the conservatives in congress held his spending in check.
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The deficits are the only possible way to get Congress to cut spending, which is the best solution, long-term
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April 27, 2003, 16:55
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#45
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Local Time: 02:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Short term deficits aren't the worst thing in the world. In fact, if you are concerned about the economy slipping into a recession, then you won't want to balance the budget.
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Signature material !
I happen to completely agree with you on this one. But I'd hardly imagine you'd tell so if Gore was president in an exactly same situation
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"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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April 27, 2003, 17:00
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#46
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Emperor
Local Time: 03:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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erm, Spiff, I ... ahem.. really don't see it as signature material.
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April 27, 2003, 17:43
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#47
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King
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
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Clinton rode the upward trend that resulted from Reaganomics. It was so good even he couldn't **** it up...largely because the conservatives in congress held his spending in check.
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Reagan was an idiot. He thought that trees caused pollution, and that starving third world citizens could eat ketchup to survive.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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April 27, 2003, 17:45
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#48
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Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Reagan also beat the Soviet Union. Give him some credit.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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April 27, 2003, 17:48
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#49
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King
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Was it worth it? I dont think so.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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April 27, 2003, 17:49
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#50
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Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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He also built up our military so we could HAVE a gulf war.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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April 27, 2003, 17:51
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#51
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King
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Was that worth it? I don't think so.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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April 27, 2003, 17:54
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#52
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Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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It's funny how Reagan's policies created the worst economic climate and greatest rise in poverty since the New Deal came about.
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The 80s were incredibly prosperous, Sava, I suggest you check it out  . Especially when you compare it to the crap 70s, it seemed almost like a miracle.
The 91 recession was VERY short in terms of duration. It lasted basically for just one year.
I support a tax cut, just a much smaller one, and more directed to lower incomes.
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 27, 2003, 18:03
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#53
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Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Well, LoA, that's your opinion. I personally think Reagan was one of our very best presidents.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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April 27, 2003, 18:11
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#54
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King
Local Time: 16:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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We already had a tax cut. Why do we need another?
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"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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April 27, 2003, 18:31
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#55
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Deity
Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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...
Because it wasn't ENOUGH of a tax cut. Duh.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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April 28, 2003, 01:05
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#56
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Deity
Local Time: 17:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Bohol
Posts: 13,381
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The 80s were incredibly prosperous, Sava, I suggest you check it out .
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For the Dow Jones and for the economic elite, sure. But the lower class lost ground. For the middle class, their real wages were stagnant until after Clinton became President.
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April 28, 2003, 01:47
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#57
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Emperor
Local Time: 19:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,213
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Spiffor
Signature material !
I happen to completely agree with you on this one. But I'd hardly imagine you'd tell so if Gore was president in an exactly same situation
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I give Democratic presidents there due on the rare occasion they do something right. Kennedy was right with his tax cut and overall had a pretty decent administration, Clinton in spite of his faults did pass a great welfare reform bill.
__________________
"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
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April 28, 2003, 03:05
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#58
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Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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For the middle class, their real wages were stagnant until after Clinton became President.
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It was well after Clinton became President, however  .
It also required a change in Congress (which directly led to a change in Clinton's economic view).
Hey, it's alright that the 80s mostly helped out the economic elite (though there were also many more jobs created in the 80s). After the 70s, as long as any sector grew it was a'ight  . That, and I'm convinced the removal of regulations was on of the reasons for the internet boom.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 03:12
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#59
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King
Local Time: 14:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Back in Hawaii... (CPA Member)
Posts: 2,612
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AGAINST!
Since I'm student (same as Q Cubed) I need the money and with the cut, I'm getting a whopping $0.00. Hmmm, where should I go with my money from the tax cut?---->Maybe the street corner so I can beg for some real money.
Tax cut doesn't help the people who really need the money.
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"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" - Dis
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April 28, 2003, 03:15
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#60
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Deity
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
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Frankychan, it gives the money back to those that EARNED IT.
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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