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View Poll Results: For or against Bush's tax cut?
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I'm for it. It's my money and I'm eager to use it or save it.
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20.00% |
I'm for a smaller tax cut.
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15.56% |
No! It's crazy, makes no sense, don't like it, country can't afford it, bad idea, etc...
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62.22% |
The 'banana option' option.
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April 28, 2003, 03:17
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#61
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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I would prefer a tax increase to 100%
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 03:20
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#62
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Local Time: 20:16
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I wouldn't  .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 03:24
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#63
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King
Local Time: 14:16
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lancer
Frankychan, it gives the money back to those that EARNED IT.
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Hey, I've earned my money. Granted, it's not much, but they take out A LOT of money from my paychecks. Okay, so it's not in the thousands...but those couple hundred bucks would really help me out. But I'm not getting anything from this tax cut.
Bah! Tax cut my a**. They should count us too, dang it!
__________________
Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
***** Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" - Dis
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April 28, 2003, 03:28
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#64
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King
Local Time: 17:16
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle Washington
Posts: 2,954
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lancer
Frankychan, it gives the money back to those that EARNED IT.
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Lancer, are you really that much a fanboy of the rich, or of right wing politics that you buy into the whole "fairness" model of taxes.
__________________
"I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger
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April 28, 2003, 03:30
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#65
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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nobody truly earns the money they make
everything is interconnected now
what you produce is dependent on everyone else
so your producton (and so your money) should be shared by all
and you get what you need
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 03:36
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#66
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Local Time: 20:16
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Quote:
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so your producton (and so your money) should be shared by all
and you get what you need
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So then no one works anymore and nothing is made or shared  .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 03:36
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#67
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King
Local Time: 14:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: Back in Hawaii... (CPA Member)
Posts: 2,612
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MRT144
Lancer, are you really that much a fanboy of the rich, or of right wing politics that you buy into the whole "fairness" model of taxes.
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 This guys knows what he's talking about.
__________________
Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
***** Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" - Dis
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April 28, 2003, 03:37
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#68
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Deity
Local Time: 00:16
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Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
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MRT, I work as a freight ape on graveyard shift at a mega store. Driving hysters, splitting pallats of frieght by hand. Good honest work. Last year I got $600 of my hard earned money back. I'm fairly well off, but there are single mothers working there during the day for whom that money made a real difference. It was, after all, their money...
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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April 28, 2003, 03:40
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#69
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
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so your producton (and so your money) should be shared by all
and you get what you need
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So then no one works anymore and nothing is made or shared .
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it would probably be that if you didn't produce anytihng, you didn't get anything (unless someone who was producing was willing to keep you up)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 03:43
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#70
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Local Time: 20:16
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But you said your production should be shared by all, and then you get what you need.
My production might be 0, but I still need stuff  .
Does your recent addition mean that if I produce ANYTHING, I get all that I need? So I could work part time at the Target and get all my food and stuff?
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 03:48
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#71
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Deity
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
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Well, that seems to have set them back a bit.
Imran, you guys sound like you're talking about the Soviet Union. Eventually everyone quit working...then the Soviet Union quit working as well.
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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April 28, 2003, 03:50
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#72
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OTF Moderator
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I think you could work part time at target, and purchase lifes nessicites now, even with how much the rich skim off the top
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 03:53
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#73
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Local Time: 20:16
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What do you consider necessities?
Do you mean that everyone only gets enough food to eat? What about TV, internet access (Poly access  )? Is the state going to provide that too? Part time at Target right now won't get me all that (barely get me enough food).
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 03:55
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#74
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Deity
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
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Jon, it's not Target, and "the rich" that "skim off the top" built the place, and gave me a job. I accepted the wage offered, a good insurance package, and the financial risk is basicly theirs. I see no reason to resent or covet their profits, if they are making any...
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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April 28, 2003, 03:56
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#75
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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well, remember right now the rich are skimming off the hard work of others
unfortunately there might ahve to be a couple different classes
like those who work 40 horsu a week, and those who work 20 hrsuo a week
and some jpobs would probaby have extra holidays or shorter housr or soemthing (like hwo many peopel want to be trashmen??)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 03:56
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#76
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Deity
Local Time: 00:16
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Posts: 16,064
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OOppss, thought Jon was replying to me. Funny how it fit in.
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I'm not profane, I type the stars.
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April 28, 2003, 03:59
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#77
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Local Time: 20:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
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Quote:
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remember right now the rich are skimming off the hard work of others
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The 'rich' also built the store, paid for the transportation of goods, made the inital investments and took the primary losses. Without the 'rich', I wouldn't be making a damned dime!
If there is no incentive (when taxes are 100%), who'll want to do the 'hard' jobs like farming and factory work? Why would anyone want to work as hard they possibly can when they know they'll be fed?
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 04:00
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#78
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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hard jobs would have more holidays associated with it
and maybe other incentives
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 04:01
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#79
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
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remember right now the rich are skimming off the hard work of others
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The 'rich' also built the store, paid for the transportation of goods, made the inital investments and took the primary losses. Without the 'rich', I wouldn't be making a damned dime!
If there is no incentive (when taxes are 100%), who'll want to do the 'hard' jobs like farming and factory work? Why would anyone want to work as hard they possibly can when they know they'll be fed?
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I never bought that argument for the rich
so the rch shold ge tmore money from all the reset of us just because they are rich?
that is not a good system
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 04:02
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#80
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
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remember right now the rich are skimming off the hard work of others
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The 'rich' also built the store, paid for the transportation of goods, made the inital investments and took the primary losses. Without the 'rich', I wouldn't be making a damned dime!
If there is no incentive (when taxes are 100%), who'll want to do the 'hard' jobs like farming and factory work? Why would anyone want to work as hard they possibly can when they know they'll be fed?
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so the rich shold get more than the rest of us because they are rich??
that is not a fair system
that just perpetuates the power of the ruling class
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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April 28, 2003, 04:02
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#81
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King
Local Time: 14:16
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Join Date: Sep 2001
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Posts: 2,612
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i think this conversation has deviated from the topic on hand...
__________________
Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
***** Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" - Dis
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April 28, 2003, 04:03
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#82
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Local Time: 20:16
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You think that would do it?
I'll take the easy job anyday, even with miniscule incentives and holidays. Unless if the incentives are more 'luxury items'.
I wonder though how the government would pay for all this. It ain't like when you go totally planned, the economy will continue being as profitable as it was, unless you use force.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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April 28, 2003, 04:07
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#83
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 18:16
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we have much more than enough production to give everyone what they need in life
as you get richer, you take more out of the economy for less overall happiness (because while materail goods do not bring happiness, being without neccesities deffinitely decreases it)
it is just less effiecient, and bad for the people who take part in the capitalistic system (, I would say that it is bad for the soul)
Jonj Miller
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April 28, 2003, 04:27
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#84
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King
Local Time: 17:16
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lancer, i too work as a "freight ape" as you say for a parcel shipping company. and while i appreciate the job i have and get paid 10 bucks an hour for it, i in know way think i should just sit their and be complacent in the wage difference between the corporate managment and me. i want to fight for wage increases among the common laborers while reducing the wages of the corporate managment.
Also, 600 dollars they got back? thats nice...but you know that went straight to neccesities, rather than luxuries. the benefit of being rich is being rich. taxing the rich isnt unfair to a class of people that already have so much more than the common man. its not like the government is taxing the rich into poverty.
where as the government is enforcing across the board taxes that the poor cant afford while cutting taxes for the rich who can afford another $50,000 from their 10 million dollar paycheck.
i look at taxes from the perspective of people being able to afford to live. I want tax relief and tax cuts and government benefits to go to those people who need it rather than those people who dont. if that means the rich get screwed, too bad, they can afford to get screwed out of smaller percentage of their income than a larger percentage of poor peoples income.
__________________
"I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger
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April 28, 2003, 07:59
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#85
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Emperor
Local Time: 20:16
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Posts: 4,264
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sava
Actually, corporate corruption caused the stock market bubble to burst. Clinton didn't have much of anything to do with CFO's, stock brokers, and bankers cooking the books. But go ahead believing he did if it makes you feel good. Clinton's economic policy of creating surpluses helped the economy. Period. The downturn, which would have occurred regardless, has been made worse by corporate corruption and Bush's stupid policies.
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The fact that it was a bubble caused the bubble to burst.
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April 28, 2003, 08:01
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#86
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Emperor
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Posts: 4,264
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Zkribbler
For the Dow Jones and for the economic elite, sure. But the lower class lost ground. For the middle class, their real wages were stagnant until after Clinton became President.
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Personal anecdotes are NOT evidence, but in my family's experience this is profoundly untrue. We were poor in '80 (the year with no Christmas), upper class in '89.
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April 28, 2003, 08:05
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#87
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Emperor
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Oh, and I'm "for". But I guess y'all probably figured that out by now.
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April 28, 2003, 20:12
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#88
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Deity
Local Time: 16:16
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Has anyone mentioned that Money magazine (for investors) did a survey of its readers and found that only 13% of them would spend money recieved from a cut in the dividends tax. So even according to supply-side theory, jobs would not be created.
I think there will be a small tax cut, but taxes will be raised higher than they are now very soon.
Last edited by Kidicious; April 28, 2003 at 20:27.
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April 28, 2003, 23:14
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#89
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King
Local Time: 18:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Liberal Socialist Party of Apolyton. Fargo Chapter
Posts: 1,649
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The best way to stimulate the economy isto increase the tax on the rich and give tax cuts to the poor. Bump up spending.
ALL HAIL DEMAND-SIDE ECONOMICS.
Reaganomics (supply side) never works because money doen't tricklw down, it's pocketed by stockholders. that is why the 80's economy was good but the quality of life (technically called the Misery Index according to my Economics textbook) was bad.
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Nothing to see here, move along: http://selzlab.blogspot.com
The attempt to produce Heaven on Earth often produces Hell. -Karl Popper
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April 29, 2003, 00:43
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#90
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Deity
Local Time: 17:16
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Bohol
Posts: 13,381
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Odin
ALL HAIL DEMAND-SIDE ECONOMICS.
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& praise be to FDR, whose demand-side economics repaired Hoover's supply-side fiasco;
& praise be to Clinton, whose demand-side economics repaired Reagan's supply-side fiasco.
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