Which country with nuclear weapons frightens you the most?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Serb

I don't have friends from Chicago.

Sava is your friend.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Aro


I'm buying my ticket... Btw, you have to give me your address...

hi ,

huh , your ticket is free of charge

somewhere along route . .

we shall meet at BGIA

have a nice day

[Carver]

Originally posted by GP


It is true that he said it. And it shows great erudition for me to know it and gig you with it.

What? Erudition, sonny, is "extensive knowledge"*; the quote you mentioned is trivia. Why would I care about an Israeli general's denegration of Arab militaries? I'm sure they do it, publicly or privately, everyday.

*per Merriam-Webster

[Carver]

Originally posted by GP


Please prove this. They are not in the Arab fleet yet.

They have made it through development. I never said they were in any Arab fleet. The Eurofighter is just now being delivered to European air forces and the Su-35 just got its first export customer.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Carver


What? Erudition, sonny, is "extensive knowledge"*; the quote you mentioned is trivia. Why would I care about an Israeli general's denegration of Arab militaries? I'm sure they do it, publicly or privately, everyday.

*per Merriam-Webster

hi ,

, ..... are "we" missing something , ....

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by Carver

They have made it through development. I never said they were in any Arab fleet. The Eurofighter is just now being delivered to European air forces and the Su-35 just got its first export customer.

hi ,

who , what , where , when , why & how

please explain

have a nice day

[TCO]

Originally posted by Carver

They have made it through development. I never said they were in any Arab fleet. The Eurofighter is just now being delivered to European air forces and the Su-35 just got its first export customer.

Still plenty of time to get cancelled. Has happened with other projects. Definitely plenty of time for the Arabs to cancel specific orders.

During the Cold War, the Russians said one of our best tricks was how we used disinformation on our weapons buys. Turns out we were just always changing our mind.

net, net: Don't bank on any big upgrade in forces. Could happen. But no good proof that it will.

[Carver]

Originally posted by panag

please explain

The deal sounds shaky, with Indonesia trading primary commodities like palm oil for weapons but...

Russia Will Sell Indonesia 48 Combat Airplanes

As a result of a visit to Moscow of the Indonesian president Megawati Sukarnoputri, an agreement was reached on the regular purchases of Russian combat equipment by that country’s defense leadership.

Two Su-27 and two Su-35 will be sold to Indonesia as early as this year. Over the subsequent 4 years, the Indonesian military will by another 44 Russian produced combat airplanes.

Thus, Indonesia will place into service 4 squadrons of 12 Russian airplanes each. At the same time, as the Indonesian newspapers are reporting, the multibillion ((dollar)) contract will be paid for only partly with hard currency. The remaining part of the payment will be in the form of traditionally exported Indonesian products: rubber, tea, coffee and palm oil.

It is recalled that several years ago, Indonesia already had tried to conclude a similar trade deal with Russian arms exporters, but it was refused.

Western media pay attention to the political side of what is happening. Indonesia obtained a huge amount of Russian arms only after it wasn't able to win removal of the embargo for arms deliveries from Washington which has been active for as long as 12 years in connection with the violation of human rights in the country. At the same time, the Indonesian armed forces have been using up to now exclusively American weapons.

As the commander of the country's air force, Chapi Hakhim ((phonetic)) announced in Jakarta, if someone is horrified by a similar deal, then it has to be said that it was not spontaneously concluded.

Source: 24.04.03, NTV

[Panag]

Originally posted by Carver


The deal sounds shaky, with Indonesia trading primary commodities like palm oil for weapons but...

hi ,

and how many deals have been drawn up with them before , ..... how many papers are signed , .....

when they are on the ground in jakarta we shall speak again , ......


here are some facts ;

Su-30 (Su-27P)
Su-32
Su-33 (Su-27K)
Su-34 (Su-27IB)
Su-35 (Su-27M)
Su-37
The robust Su-27 platform has served as the basis for a number of improved variants for a diverse range of missions and users.
Su-30 (Su-27P) is a two-seat long-range intercept fighter that first flew in December 1989, and that entered service with the Russian air forces in 1992. Largely based on the Su-27UB two-seat trainer, it has a new radiolocation system which can transmit the positions of 10 targets to four other fighters at the same time. The Su-30 is made in Irkutsk.

Su-30M (MK-export version) is a standard Su-30 with the air-to-ground missiles which can carry twice the armament (8 tons) compared to the baseline Su-27. The Su-30 'export variant' of the formidable Su-27 'Flanker', can carry the latest Russian air-to-air missiles, including the medium-range R-27 family, the short-range R-73 and the new medium-range R-77 'AMRAAM-ski'. The Sukhoi-30K has a range in excess of 3,000km, which means it can easily patrol offshore installations without requiring aerial refuelling. In June 1999 Russia agreed to sell 72 of these front-line Sukhoi-30 jet fighter-bombers to China. The aircraft building enterprise in Komsomolsk-on-Amur (KnAAPO) is likely to become the main supplier of a large lot of Su-30MKK fighter jets to China. The cost of one Su-30MKK fighter jet is estimated at $35 million - $37 million. At the same time, negotiations began for Moscow to grant a licence for the production of another 250 Sukhoi-30 fighters. The Su-30MKK for China is different in details from the Su-30MKI version designed for India. Sukhoi has a $1.5-$1.8 billion deal to supply 40 Su-30MK to India. In 1997, a total of eight aircraft were supplied under this contract, which should be completed at the end of 1999. Negotiations to license the production of the Su-30MKI to the Hindustan AeronauticsLimited (HAL) works of India continued in 1997. The Indians received feasibility plans, and it is thought that a final decision would be reached this year. Production in India would begin after 2001. In all, India might produce 100 warplanes in a contract worth more than $1 billion. However, as of mid-1999 negotiations on the contract for the licensed production of Su-30MKI fighter by HAL remained delayed due to the government crisis in India, which could not be resolved until after the Fall 1999 elections. The two sides had agreed on all the basic issues, including the value of the licensing contract. As of mid-2000 India had received only eight SU-30K air defence aircraft and none of the upgraded SU-30MK multi-role aircraft in the Rs 6310-crore deal signed with Russia in 1996. There had been no deliveries after May 1997. India's Defence Research Development Organisation had failed to develop and supply key avionics sub-systems and failed to procure Western avionics to equip the SU-30MK aircraft for its designated multi-role. Under the contract, the Irkutsk aircraft production association will deliver 40 Su-30s to the Indian air force. Within the framework of a contract worth $1.8bn Russia will deliver to India 40 military planes Su-30 in different versions. At the end of 1999 Irkutsk aviation industrial association 'Irkut' was finishing the assembly of ten Su-30MK multifunctional long-range for India's Air Forces, equipped with aerial refuelling capabilities. After the deliveries are complete, HAL plans to launch production of new modifications of Su-30s under a Russian license in cooperation with Sukhoi. The Sukhoi-30 can be modified into a naval version, if the Indian Government decides to acquire an aircraft carrier.

Su-32FN is the two-seat multi-role reconnaissance and strike export version of the Su-34 fighter-bomber.

Su-33 (Su-27K) is a carrier-based variant that first flew in May 1985, and entered service in the Russian Navy in 1994. The air regiment comprising 24 fighters of the type was formed up on Russia's only operating aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov. It has extra small wings near the pilots cabin which shorten the take-off distance and improve manoeuvrability. The Su-33 can also carry guided missiles such as the H-25MP, H-31 and H-41. The Su-33 is used in both night and day operations at sea, and operate with the command center ship and with the Ka-31 early-warning helicopter. With the R-27EM missiles it can intercept antiship missiles.

Su-34 (Su-27IB - Istrebitel-Bombardirovshchik) is a two seat ("arm-to-arm") strike variant that first flew in 1990. It features frontal wings and a large flattened nose with sharp edges (like the SR-71) reduce radar cross-section. This new ship-borne fighter is fitted with two AL-31FP engines with vectored thrust. Using them allows either the take-off distance or maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of the aircraft to be increased by 10-15 per cent. The aircraft has a distinctive large "sting" in the rear which contains the NO-14 radiolocation system, a radioelectronic countermeasures system, and a fuel tank. The Su-32 and Su-34 have been developed and are in serial production in Novosibirsk for the Russian Ministry of Defence.

Su-35 (Su-27M) is a single-seat attack fighter that first flew in 1988. The Su-35 and Su-37 are made in Komomolsk-na-Amure. Like the Su-33 it features small wings near the cabin to enhance manoeuvrability. It also has new digital pilot control and digital engine control systems, replacing the analog computers in the original Su-27. The radar, with a range of 400 km, can follow the position of 15 targets and fire at 6 of them at the same time. An improved "Zuk" ("Scarab") radar features a mobile (+/- 130 degree) antenna which can follow position of 24 targets with ability to fire to 8 of them. The rear "sting" has a radiolocation system, which moved back the center of gravity, and which along with other innovations improve its tactical ability. Armaments includee: R-77, R-73, KS-172, R-27EM/AE, R-27E, R-27, H-31, H-29L/T, KAB-500L/KR, KAB-1500, H-15, H-65, H-59M, S-25LD, 500kg and 250 kg bombs.


in 97 they announced they would buy 12 suk 30k instead of the f-16 it intended to buy from the us , .... they allready have 12 f-16's , ....

great for spare parts , ...






have a nice day

[Ned]

1. France, lead by a power-mad anti-American
2. North Korea, lead by a lunatic anti-American
3. Russia, lead by a revenge-seeking anti-American
4. Pakistan, home of extremist anti-American Islamic elements

[Menlas]

Originally posted by Ned
1. France, lead by a power-mad anti-American
2. North Korea, lead by a lunatic anti-American
3. Russia, lead by a revenge-seeking anti-American
4. Pakistan, home of extremist anti-American Islamic elements

Nice troll Ned, but you have done much better ones. I'm quite disappointed.

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by GP
1. Arab professionals. BWAHAHAHA. Remember what Moshe Dyan said, "It is easy to look like a great general, when you fight Arabs."

The IraqI Army was largely thought to be the most capable and proffesional Arab Army due to it's size, the fact that it had modern weapon systems, and its combat experience during the Iran-Iraq war, but, the last two Gulf wars have shown they were a third rate outfit which wasn't a match for a modern proffessional Army.

So who are the other contenders to be the Arab champion? Eygpt's Army's weapon systems are severally out of date and has a hard time beating Islamic Fundies in a stand up fight (much less the unconvential war), Algeria has been unable to put down a ten year old rebellion even with large amounts of French financial & military support, Saudi Arabia has a problem of to many chiefs and not enough indians (everyone wants to be the pilot but they can't find enough nonforeigners who wants to be the ground crew. ), and lastly we have Syria.

Syria suffers from the same sort of problems most of the other Arab states do. It's weapon systems were mostly bought in the 60's & 70's, over regulation & corruption have strangled its economy, and unlike Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Algeria it doesn't have a whole lot of oil laying around. Sure, they are a net exporter but they're a second or third tire producer so they just can't afford to keep pace with the likes of Saddam Hussein much less the Israelis.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The IraqI Army was largely thought to be the most capable and proffesional Arab Army due to it's size, the fact that it had modern weapon systems, and its combat experience during the Iran-Iraq war, but, the last two Gulf wars have shown they were a third rate outfit which wasn't a match for a modern proffessional Army.

So who are the other contenders to be the Arab champion? Eygpt's Army's weapon systems are severally out of date and has a hard time beating Islamic Fundies in a stand up fight (much less the unconvential war), Algeria has been unable to put down a ten year old rebellion even with large amounts of French financial & military support, Saudi Arabia has a problem of to many chiefs and not enough indians (everyone wants to be the pilot but they can't find enough nonforeigners who wants to be the ground crew. ), and lastly we have Syria.

Syria suffers from the same sort of problems most of the other Arab states do. It's weapon systems were mostly bought in the 60's & 70's, over regulation & corruption have strangled its economy, and unlike Iraq or Saudi Arabia or Algeria it doesn't have a whole lot of oil laying around. Sure, they are a net exporter but they're a second or third tire producer so they just can't afford to keep pace with the likes of Saddam Hussein much less the Israelis.

hi ,

if they are not willing to invest in boots , underware , medics , etc , ...... then you get what we saw a couple weeks ago , ....

those who invest in the basic soldier can win any war , .....

regardless of modern day weapons or not , .....

have a nice day

[Sava]

Originally posted by Menlas

Quote:

1. France, lead by a power-mad anti-American 2. North Korea, lead by a lunatic anti-American 3. Russia, lead by a revenge-seeking anti-American 4. Pakistan, home of extremist anti-American Islamic elements

Nice troll Ned, but you have done much better ones. I'm quite disappointed.

What's sad is that he believes this.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by skywalker
They are completely immoral. At least nukes POTENTIALLY have a moral use (not much though), if you can use them in the field without hurting civilians. But neutron bombs' entire PURPOSE is to mass murder civilians.

Not real bright , eh? A neutron bombs purpose is to kill enemy troops (originally Warsaw pact forces) on allied territory (originally West Germany) without trashing said allied territory. Their use is tactically angainst invading troops.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola


Not real bright , eh? A neutron bombs purpose is to kill enemy troops (originally Warsaw pact forces) on allied territory (originally West Germany) without trashing said allied territory. Their use is tactically angainst invading troops.

Nahh. The reason for the neutron bomb is to be used against armor. Several inches of steel tend tobe pretty good protection against regular nukes. But the neutrons go right through it.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Since most of the Warsaw Pact troops are in AFVs during most of a campaign, duh. And civilian buidling and built of better neutron insulators than armored vehicles. Also troops in defensive positions, with dirt and concrete around them, are much safer than attacking troops in AFVs. Al of which confirms the stated policy of their use against attacking mechanized forces.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Since most of the Warsaw Pact troops and in AFVs during most of a campaign, duh.

I normally give you a break on the grammar, but I couldn't understand this last remark.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Since most of the Warsaw Pact troops are in AFVs during most of a campaign, duh.

I'm still not sure what your point is. You said the reason for the neutron bomb was to avoid damaging the landscape. I said the reason is because neutrons penetrate steel sheilding better than gamma rays or blast waves.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Well, the duh, is that is obvious (at least so guys like you and me with some background) that any weapon systems designed to deal with Warsaw pact ground forces would have (steel) armor piercing as a major criterion. You do not fight T64s, T72s, BTRs and BMPs with shrapnel. I was focusing on the less common characteristics of the weapon, how it increased ban for the buck while reducing the ration of colleteral damage to intened effect, becasue the ignoramus I quoted above thought it was a weapon intended for killing civilians.