Old Europe meets

[Az]

what? who? when?

[Ned]

Pekka, et al., clearly we need a meeting -- of the United States, NATO members and members of the EU. We need to discuss the future and whether we should cooperate in areas of foreign-policy and military affairs; and if we intend to cooperate, how we should do so.

What I see more than anything else is that Europe would like to have a voice in US foreign-policy. Clearly the United States understands that we must consult our European friends if they are to be on board as a part of any coalition. We need to formalize this relationship in some treaty organization that replaces NATO.

As Pekka said, the right to vote in such an arrangement also entails the obligation to militarily support decisions of the organization. I don't see this coalition as being purely defensive. It should be able to take action offensively if necessary. Kosovo and Iraq provide recent examples wide this is necessary.

In some respects, this new coalition will simply replace the United Nations Security Council under circumstances where the UNSC fails to act to remedy a violation of international law. As we have seen, the UN is feckless and effete and will never enforce its resolutions.

[Ned]

Obviously, we should invite all democratic countries of the world to be part of the coalition. So, I would include Japan, South Korea and Australia as well in the new coalition.

[Pekka]

I find it interesting that Chirac and Schroeder are trying to be in a position, where they can trash NATO decision and torpedo things in UN with vetos, and after that, they'd have the only 'working' alliance, since there would be no US there to veto or tell them what to do. I find this very funny.

So what would we gain from this? We'd get to maybe fight, but we woudln't me our own masters. As a small country, we can't afford to be tossed around by others. This is what we have learned and done.

I find it amusing, that one of the main reasons Chirac helped Saddam in the first place was to celebrate independence from the US, his big dream.. no big brother.. just Europe.. just Chirac himself. He isn't fooling anyone, his past is too known and his arrogance seen.

Clearly the model won't work and will only bring frustration. Future will tell us if they are seriously pushing it. But it only makes our relations worse, as we are not going to be part of it and won't be intimitated by them.