Comments on the Forgotten Faction

OldCodger · January 28, 2000, 11:55

Those of you who enjoy reading Alpha Centauri fiction will notice the premier of a new story line, "The Forgotten Faction". As is customary, I have opened a parallel posting for comments. As with the other stories, comments are both invited and welcomed.

A few prelimary comments and then a question for the readers. First, the usual disclaimer that I haven't written anything like this before, so suggestions and criticisms are welcome as long as they are given with courtesy (I've never seen any problem in this area before, so I don't really anticipate one now). Second, this story has a beginning, a planned middle, and a planned ending, but may try to evolve into something different as time goes on. Therefore, at least for now, I do not see this as appropriate for a collaborative effort (though I would like to try one in the future). Third, this kind of story may not be for everyone. And that's okay too.

Now for the question. One of the things that I thought might be fun would be to use names or handles from individuals in the forum for some of the characters in this story. If you would not mind having your name or handle used in this story, please post your permission to do so here or send me an e-mail. Most of the characters who would be using these names or handles are background characters, but significant. Obviously, since I don't know any of you personally, the character descriptions and personalities, will not bear much resemblance to anyone in this forum. Also, the characters may engage in inexplicable or unusual behavior that you would never, ever do. Most of these characters will figure prominently in a few chapters and then fade as we move on to other areas. However, I won't kill any of them off (as you will see, this isn't that kind of story anyway). So, let me know if you would like to furnish a character name, and I'll try to work it in.

NOTE: I've already worked Vel into the story, but I won't post those chapters until I get his permission to use his handle.

I hope you will enjoy this story line. I've been having quite a bit of fun writing it.

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

Jasonian · January 28, 2000, 14:49

OldCodger,

So, you're a new writer, huh? Well, welcome to AC-Fiction! We always like to see a new face (and a new story) show up here.

I've read the first two parts, and I must say that you have a very interesting writing voice. Most of the stories here read like books, which they are intended to be. Yours reads like a story being told to me, and me alone. It's a very personal voice, and I find it a welcome change.

I myself tried to write a solo story with custom factions, so I'll give you some advice. Make sure your readers know what this 'fogotten faction' stands for, if anything. Everyone knows the Hive, and the Spartans, and the Usurpers. But custom factions are harder. So try not to cut any corners in faction description.

Also, when you write solo, you have total control of the plot. This makes writing it easier, since you know what you're doing, but less exciting, since there are no other writers to throw you off. Try not to get discoraged or bored with it. After I finished 13 parts or so with mine, I stopped out of boredom. Don't let this happen to you!

Of course, you can use Jasonian in your story, if you wish. Some background on him: (and me in real life) He's kinda quiet and shy, and prefers to hang around in the shadows. But he knows quite a bit what's going on around him, and will tell people if they ask nicely. He's loyal, but not above using people to further his own needs. Of course, this background is optional, so turn him into a noisy rude soldier if it fits the story I know you said you wouldn't kill us off, but you have my permission to do so, if you choose.

Good luck to you, and I await part three!

Bearcat · January 28, 2000, 15:40

Well OldCodger you're free to use Bearcat as one of your names. I'm kind of a computer addict. But I'm not much interested in math or science. I kind of like ot make jokes. So you could make me a wiseguy probe or something.

Go ahead and do what you want. And good luck with your story.
[This message has been edited by Bearcat (edited January 28, 2000).]

January 28, 2000, 19:54

Sure, i don't mind if you use my handle LordLMP for character, but doubt it really, like, who would name themselves like that anyway?

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-LordLMP

Vi Vicdi · January 29, 2000, 01:02

Your story has a lot of character. It's a little cliche' [a la Stephen King], but very entertaining.

But I'm not complaining -- I'm dying to know who the "Maynards" are ...

Googlie · February 1, 2000, 12:31

OldCodger:

Love the story - it's totally different from the other fiction - keep it coming

Googlie

February 2, 2000, 12:45

love the story. sort of a shades of 'deliverance.' keep up the great work.

oh, and you can use the edgecrusher, if you like, but remember that he's a one-man probe team... should be interesting to watch him try to infiltrate their society.

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"edgecrusher" Spartan Probe Team 'angelis'

OldCodger · February 3, 2000, 01:51

For those of you following this story line, all six of you

, I plan to post a new chapter every Tuesday and Friday; at least as long as I can stay a couple chapters ahead of the posting (much editing is required....).

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

President Jakjon · February 3, 2000, 19:29

Another great chapter! Though it might be nice if you explained why the Spartan weapondry itself is a tad inneffectual. Maybe the Maynards/(erm... their kin) have unusually tough skin? I'm seriously thinking of whipping up a custom faction based on them. A few stats welcome to comment from everyone:
GROWTH +3/4 (Big families.)
SUPPORT +2/3 (Plenty of Soldiers.)
TECHNOLOGY -2/4 (Not into book learnin')

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--President Jakjon
--Datalinks

OldCodger · February 4, 2000, 11:21

President Jakjon,

I had actually been thinking along similar lines--i.e., social engineering settings--myself. There should definitely be a large plus on growth. I didn't think of support, but I have to agree with you there. Morale should also get a +1.

On the negatives, right now I'm thinking maybe a -1 research and possibly a -1 on industry, but that may be too much.

Also, I would think that the faction could not choose Police State politics; they are simply too individualistic to tolerate that kind of control.

Now for a little foreshadowing: I would not name the faction the Maynards. Sometime around chapter 5 or 6, you will find out who they really are...

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

February 4, 2000, 12:05

buh.. buh... YOU CAN"T DO THAT! ... oh wait... i suppose you can. excellently done. just... differently.... perhaps my national pride is getting in the way. hey... when's the banjo duel coming?

edgecrusher, probe master.

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i've felt darkness closing in on me
chilling shadows surrounding me
i've had the poison leak into my skin
and it corroded my heart away
bled away.
cut away.
dark night of my soul

February 9, 2000, 12:17

headlines the next day read "rednecks bent on world domination..."

Jasonian · February 9, 2000, 18:16

Hmm... I can understand why the Spartans are declining, since their morale just took a death-dive. But why the Usurpers?

Man, these rednecks are tough! Guess I'll have to just wait and see... keep it comming!

President Jakjon · February 10, 2000, 20:27

Ah, the plot gets... stranger and stranger. It's a great relief from the usual. I just can't see Santiago growing a moustache, but that could be because I don't WANT to see Santiago sporting a moustache. (Crud, I forgot how to spell moustache. I hope my dad's spelling is right. After all, he has one.)
As to the stats, I can't see them having anything less than -3 research. They have to be worse off in that department than the Believers, at least. (Speaking of which, the title of my third chapter is "Enter the Believers." It's not very imaginative...) I was considering just giving them some ludicrous defense bonus. I can't really imagine them trooping off to an enemy base and just ripping apart the perimeter defenses with their bare hands. However, a +1 morale would be reasonable.
As to social engineering: They evidently have some sort of social pecking order based on physical force (or the threat thereof) so I believe that a police state wouldn't be beyond their ken. (But they're your creation, so I yield to your judgement. This freedom-loving aspect should be brought out more.) However, their lack of general organization suggests to me that a planned economy would be impossible. Referring to the above "social pecking order," I think they might be particularaly attracted to "Power" social values.

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--President Jakjon
--Datalinks

OldCodger · February 11, 2000, 09:58

The thing about Santiago's moustache is a "nod" to a discussion we had several months ago back on the old OWO forums (before they were taken down by The Powers That Be). We had one of those threads about "which faction do you most enjoy crushing?", and the Spartans ended up winning by a large margin (Miriam was second as I recall). This was before SMACx came out, so I don't know if that would still stand true.

Anyway, the thread twisted into a discussion of what makes Santiago so hard to get along with, and then it was suggested that she had a drug addiction problem, "crack" or something like that, and then I suggested that the addiction was correct, just the wrong substance. I offered the suggestion that she was actually addicted to testosterone (anyone who uses steroids heavily is prone to excessive aggression). After that, the discussion pretty much degenerated into the sublimely silly. The moustache was simply my way of carrying that line of silliness to a "logical extreme".

EdgeCrusher's speculation about where this story is going is not too far off. However, there will be no dueling banjos. Unless I can work it in in some completely unusual and unexpected fashion.

The nature of writing a "serial novel" like this demands that much of the story be left to the reader's imagination. To write the level of detail that a "real novel" would demand requires far more time than I can give to this project. Thus, the actual details of how the Maynards and their kinfolks beat the Spartans is up to you to decide. But here is how I see it happening. First, the Spartans were arrogant and did not do a proper job of recon and intelligence. Second, Major Payne's report was actually pretty accurate. The odds were heavily against her, the terrain--lots of fungus, trees, and underbrush--reduced visibility and hence weapons range. Third, they had no idea of the kind of fight they were actually in. I don't see that there were alot of people killed on either side. I see a lot of wounded, especially Spartans, and I see them holding to their military honor and never leaving a fallen comrade, bring your wounded buddy out, etc., and then I see their ability to fight evaporate rather quickly as their support structure collapsed from the number of wounded and all the other confusion.

What I see in this story line is that it represents something entirely different from most of the other fiction in this forum. In saying that, I also want you to understand that I *LIKE* the other fiction in this forum. I've very much enjoyed reading the other stories and would like to encourage our blossoming crew of writers to continue their efforts.

I won't tell you how to "enjoy" this storyline, if in fact you are enjoying it at all. I will tell you this much: this story will focus on some "highly creative" problem solving, i.e., nothing will ever seem to turn out the way you would expect. Try not to take it too seriously. I'm already having enough problem with that aspect of writing the story, i.e., I keep wanting to take it too seriously myself.

With that thought in mind, you will start to see more "character names" from the forum start to show up in the storyline. I think there are four or so in the very next chapter. To a small degree, I tried to follow the character preferences expressed in this forum. To a large degree, I took considerable liberty (as I promised or threatened, depending on your point of view). Many of your "handles" which were not included will show up later.

I want to get back to the discussion on SE settings, but I have to leave for an appointment and will return to this forum later to do that.

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

OldCodger · February 11, 2000, 14:15

Well, I'm back. My appointment went pretty well. At least nobody wound up drunk and no shots were fired. But I digress...

When considering SE aspects of the "Forgotten Faction", I'm still a little puzzled myself on what those should actually be. Definitely a plus on both morale and growth. If we follow the stereotype for people like this, i.e., a bit on the lazy side, then that might translate into a minus on industry. However, I don't think the stereotype applies all that well.

I hadn't thought much about "Planned" economy, but I think Jakjon is correct on that. Neither "planning" nor efficiency seem to be real high at the moment. Nor do I know if efficiency is going to change much. Planning most probably will remain at some state near to chaos.

Research actually has me a bit puzzled. I honestly can't say at this point whether there is a strong aversion to "book learnin'" or simply a lack of opportunity. They are actually going to do a little bit of work along those lines throughout the course of the story, but not in a "formal environment" such as a university or research center. But they are very curious and like to "figger things out". If the Believers are a "-2" on Research because of a strong distrust or antipathy toward "worldly science", then at worst I would give the "Forgotten Faction" no more than a "-1". Also, I don't think I would stick them with the inability to choose "Knowledge".

I hadn't thought about their optimal Values setting until you raised the question. Actually, I don't think any of the game settings, Power, Knowledge, or Wealth, apply as desired settings or aversions either one. That probably makes them a hybrid faction. Usually, the warmonger and builder factions have particular values settings they either want or avoid. Usually, the hybrids can move among the three with equal ease, depending on the situation.

At this particular point, I would be inclined to give them a "-1" for efficiency and a "-1" for police. This could be a particularly troublesome combination at the beginning of the game, especially as they tried to expand. I would give them a "+2" for growth, a "+1" for morale, and possibly a "+1" for support. I think I would accept any political setting, but give them an aversion to a Planned economy (actually, the more I think about it, the more "correct" that sounds). If they get a "+1" for support, I might be inclined to give them a "-1" for research. I'm not sure I would alter any of the other settings.

The other interesting questions are: (1) What is their research agenda? (2) What starting tech? (3) Are there any favored SE settings? (4) What is their personality?

I'm not sure I have a clue on how to answer these questions yet, except to say they are definitely erratic in personality. As far as starting tech, I would probably choose Social Psych, so they can build a Rec Commons fairly early. They haven't done much Exploring, Building, Discovering, or Conquering, so maybe they should use double-blind research?

As soon as we get this nailed down, I shall be forced to go into the faction editor, build them, and then play them a while. From the storyline, the factions that they will be most involved with are: Spartans, UoP/Cyborgs (pick one), Morganites, Usurpers, Caretakers, and Believers. That will be a pretty decent mix.

Any other thoughts or comments?

A couple of comments on chapter 5:

There actually is (or was) a town in West Virginia named Stonecoal.

The character of "Gayle Storm" was outlined the way she was written from the very beginning, though the name was selected from the forum. The name is an alias for the (in)famous "Googlie". Her assistant, Paula Forbes, was originally outlined as a male character, but I changed the gender to female so I could use the name "Paula Forbes", which is another penname for "Googlie". This in effect makes Googlie Googlie's assistant, and that was just too good to pass up. We'll have to see if this has strange psychological ramifications of some sort.

The Progenitor character was unnamed, and the name selected just seemed perfect to me. I would bet that Jakjon never saw that coming.

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

President Jakjon · February 11, 2000, 19:32

Uh... yeah, you could say that. (:-] (My personal smily- I call it grunt smily. Note the helmet "(" ) You've captured quite a few aspects of myself, actually. Before I got put on Adderall, I'd sleep a lot in school. My body got trained to take 40-minute naps to correspond to the lengths of the periods.
I agree with your social modifiers. (I have this bizarre tendency to make really large modifiers mostly because they let us do that.)
As to their preference, if it isn't power, than I think they would lean towards "Frontier-Survival-None-None." But we cannot choose that. So I wouldn't set a preference.
Technologically, if they like hunting and fishing, they might like boats and guns- explore and conquer. But then again, I can't imagine a bunch of them going to sea on a Cruiser packing a Chaos gun and fishing USING the gun.
Maybe they should just get an automatic rec center at each base, due to the fact that their lifestyle involves having fun hunting and fishing, and they don't need to build a rec center to do that.

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--President Jakjon
--Datalinks
[This message has been edited by President Jakjon (edited February 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by President Jakjon (edited February 13, 2000).]

Googlie · February 12, 2000, 02:14

Great, OldCodger

(from another old codger)

Googlie

Vi Vicdi · February 14, 2000, 02:46

Chap. 5: LOL!

OldCodger · February 14, 2000, 17:20

If you come looking for the Tuesday, Feb 15, edition of "The Forgotten Faction", you will find that it is not there.

Unfortunately, I am a bit behind in my writing. I anticipate posting chapter 6 in Friday, but it hasn't been completed yet, so I can't promise anything.

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

Jasonian · February 18, 2000, 12:51

Chapter 6: HAHAHAHA!!

This story is great! Keep up the excellent work.

Vi Vicdi · February 20, 2000, 22:25

The "log chain around the axle trick" ... LOL!

February 22, 2000, 12:05

ummm... i'm not dead, am i...?

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i've had the poison leak into my skin
and it corroded my heart away

OldCodger · February 23, 2000, 10:15

EdgeCrusher,

I guess you'll just have to keep reading and find out, won't you?

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

President Jakjon · February 25, 2000, 02:32

The latest chapter is excellent! (Though I would have thought that Res-3 axles were tougher...? Maybe they're unarmored. Yes, that's it.)

I'm actually a catatonic drunk... I just stare at the bottle thinking, "I seem to have drunk a lot. I should stop drinking. I can't move. I can't drink more."

But that was hilarious! So, violins make progenitors drunk... interesting. And this bit about the radios, well, it suggests recording technology, but also a generalized lack of economic unity...

If there was some way one could give a combat bonus against just alien factions, that would be good, because of the violins, of course. Keep going! Those of you who haven't checked up on my personal thread: chapter four is up!

(PS: It's 1:36 AM and the dextroamphetimine has worn off, which is why I am jabbering and making little sense, I think.)

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--President Jakjon
--Datalinks

OldCodger · February 26, 2000, 01:50

Some brief comments on chapter 6. First, the name of the faction has finally been revealed. In case you missed it, they are the Hillbillies. Second, you can deduce where the chapter titles come from. They are all candidate names for really bad country-western songs. If you have any really bad song titles you'd like to share, please feel free to send them to me. I can't guarantee they will get used, but if they do, I will credit the title and offer my most sincere thanks.

Overall, the story is progressing a little slower than I originally thought. Once one gets into the process, the characters seem to take on a life of their own. They are trying to "bend" the tale into something different than I had originally outlined. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens...

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Old age and treachery: the perfect cure for youth and ambition...

President Jakjon · February 26, 2000, 19:45

Another great chapter! Keep them coming!

I know that everyone has their own style, but the Hillbillies seem a tad casualty-proof. (Maybe they should get an even bigger defense bonus than I was thinking about...) A chaos gun is rather powerful, having eight times the firepower of, say, an automatic grenade launcher. If someone hosed my brick-and-stucco-and-stone house with a grenade launcher, it would be more that "a little shot up." So, it seemed a tad odd that a wooden structure suffered as little damage as you described.

I also think that the Usurpers wouldn't lie about the battle. They don't dig competition. They also have an even more disciplined military culture than the Spartans. Of course, they would bend the truth to their own ends. Their report would probably be that the Hillbillies "disabled" the rover.

However, as I said before, if these elements are an essential element of your writing style, then keep them. Your story is hilarious and fascinating, and I look forward to the next chapter.

As always, I would like to take this chance to push my own thread- chapter four, titled "Fifteen Minutes" is up.

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--President Jakjon
--Datalinks
[This message has been edited by President Jakjon (edited February 26, 2000).]

February 26, 2000, 23:53

at least i'm not dead...

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i've had the poison leak into my skin
and it corroded my heart away

President Jakjon · February 27, 2000, 00:46

"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic." -attributed to Joseph Stalin.

Don't be too sure. After all, the Believers control that console. Perhaps the real message was "The Walrus was Paul" which means "I'm about to die."

Or something like that.

(:-|

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--President Jakjon
--Datalinks

March 3, 2000, 11:44

**poke poke** hey, are you done with the next chapter? or what?

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i've had the poison leak into my skin
and it corroded my heart away