Spoliers for AU 401: They came down from the Mountains - Page 2

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 00:47

My cultural campaign against Rome finally yielded its one and only dividend with the flipping of Veii in 70 AD. I started work on a forbidden palace in Basra on the neck between the Roman/Arabian starting area and the jungle opening onto the larger part of the continent, intending it to be my eastern capital when I ruled the world. Peace and prosperity were the order of the day.

Then, in 190 AD, the world changed. Evil Chinese forces reached the tiny undefended village of Yamama and burned it through the ground. Arabia immediately sought allies, bribing Rome and India into joining the war at great expense (and arranging a right of passage agreement with Rome to ensure that Roman troops could reach the front lines in a timely manner). Work toward planned courthouses in the western lands was converted to troops, mostly longbowmen, to defend the remaining western cities in the meantime.

Roman medieval infantry quickly proved themselves more than a match for the Chinese aggressors, allowing Arabia to return to its peaceful ways. Horsemen continued to be a priority, as did Leonardo's Workshop. That wonder was completed in 350 AD.

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 01:05

In 400 AD, the world changed. Ansar Warriors made their first appearancein combat, beginning Arabia's golden age. Chinese cities fell like dominoes before these new units, and in well under a century, China was no more. Interestingly, not a single Chinese Rider appeared to challenge the dominance of Arabia's mighty Ansars.

[Note: Screenshots from the playback are as of the beginning of the turn, so each turn's conquest appears in the following turn's image.]

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 01:22

The Age of Ansars was spactacular, but it was also short. Musketmen were beginning to appear, and even against pikemen, Ansars' margin of superiority was less than ideal. Arabian scientists had an answer planned, but it would take time. In the meantime, Arabia stayed at peace but continued to build up its mounted forces.

The answer came in 620 AD, and was unleashed on the world a decade later: Cavalry. These new mounted troops were just as fast as Ansars, but were half again as well armed. No defender on the planet could hope to stand against them for any length of time.

Rome was the first to fall. The Arab people still remembered Roman settlers' claiming coveted lands, and still remembered the high price Caesar charged for his help against China - help through which Rome had added a city to its empire, no less. Those gave Arabia's politicians ample tools through which to persuade the people that war against Rome was justified.

In twenty years, it was all but over. Veii would defect back to Rome and have to be reconquered before the war would end, and Arabia would gain one of Rome's island cities in the peace talks, but Arabia's cavalry were free to move on to their next target.

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 01:42

In 700 AD, Carthage became the second target of Arabian cavalry, with India asked to assist in dealing with a difficult-to-reach city. A new leader emerged quickly and moved Arabia's palace to one of the captured Carthagenian cities. (Perfect palace positioning was a prime purpose for preferring Carthage as a target.) The Ottomans quickly joined Carthage's plight, and before long, the Ottomans were no more and Carthage was reduced to a single island city. (Yes, making peace with Carthage violated a treaty with India, but India would soon have far greater reasons to be upset with Arabia.)

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 01:57

Germany would be next to fall. Once again, the war was an easy one, although Arabia gave Rome an island city that had been ceded by Carthage when Germany started threatening it. Three leaders emerged, two of them rushing Bach's Cathedral and Newton's University and a third founding a 3Xelite* cavalry army.

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 02:16

With Germany defeated, it was time to give India a much greater reason to hate and mistrust Arabs. And if a Babylonian city got in the way, so what? Who was left with the power to object?

In the meantime, Arabia had been rushing temples and courthouses in many cities. In 870 AD, our illustrious empire reached the domination threshold.

nbarclay · May 12, 2003, 02:24

Final score: 7352, thanks mostly to the bonus for winning so early. By the way, I went ahead and played a couple more turns after I officially won to remove Babylon from my continent. But going on to get rid of the Romans (who had gotten back a city through a cultural flip to leave an ugly red blot on the beautiful pink of my continent) would have been more trouble than I wanted to go to. After all, I'd been so busy building cavalry that I had no navy at all!

Mountain Sage · May 12, 2003, 06:14

Hey Arrian,

You almost played like me!

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:33

I chose the Zulus. As this was an AU game, I concluded that it would be very hard on Deity. Looking at the Roman's starting position, I was probably right. Since I was player Emperor, Industrious was out of the question. It was a pangea so I thought expansionist might be good. Specifically a low-landmass pangea means that conquest is going to be the best option so the Zulus seemed reasonable.

I accidentally didn't use the AU mod so this is unmodded.

For some reason, I missed one of the wheats so moved the settler twice to get I higher chance for an early settler from a hut. I'm not going to be able to convince everyone that expansionist is a good trait if every AU game I get a settler as early as possible. I'm not this lucky normally. Honestly, no restarts:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:35

When I discovered the Romans were so near, this was obviously settlerless archer-rush territory so Zimbabwe stopeed building scouts in favour of barracks.
Of course the Zulu's are a brave people and so stick to their build order whatever any weak-willed civ might do

:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:36

You can see in the above screenshot that Rome has no spearmen. When Rome dropped to size 1 for the second time, just 2 archers were ready. Well, if they'd failed, they wouldn't have deserved to live, right?
The AIs just aren't as ruthless as the player can be

:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:38

Edit: change of plan. This should have been attached above.

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:41

Now this is when I become unforgivably lucky. After taking Veii in 2190BC. The Romans respawn very close by. This gives me 100 gold, 2 workers and the next target.
I've researched the Wheel and Horseback riding by this stage and have been able to trade for the starting techs. So I've started researching the usual mathematics.
I built a granary in Zimbabwe, intending to REX from there. But the Roman respawn could give me yet another free core city so I started the Pyramids. I've noticed these go well with loose city spacing which the Romans forced on me.

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:43

When I got Mathematics, I was able to to trade for the 2nd tier of techs (Iron Working, Writing and Mysticism as well). The Roman's don't have contact with anyone! Time for the Arrian deception on a pangea. Just 7 turns into peace, I declare war on the Romans, mostly to bring back any scouting units. With 3 archers and 2 recently upgraded swordsmen, I manage to take Antium the turn after it expands. By this time they've founded Cumae on the ivory just 4 tiles from Zimbabwe.

I started researching Philosophy in 1625BC. Normally at this stage I'd research Currency that the AI might miss. But I wanted to be in Republic as long as possible before Feudalism comes into play.

I'm now just about to build my first settler! With five cities and a certain capturable sixth, this is a decent REX all the same. None of the former Roman cities are that corrupt even in Despotism.

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:46

I added slaves to Zimbabwe until it was size 10. It's obviously a great game when your capital not only builds no settlers and workers but actually has them added to it. Of course this meant 50% lucuries for I while but with 2 MP and Ivory and wine hooked up as well as furs, that became a more reasonable 20%.

Even with no bonus production squares a capital on a river can give decent wonder production as well as good commerce. You just waste all that zero corruption by turning it into a settler pump.

So philosophy was discovered in 1375BC. The ottomans got it first but luckily I was still able to trade it for the more expensive code of laws and mapmaking. Time to start Republic. In 1150BC Zimbabwe built the Pyramids.

The Gerams declared war on Carthage. I hoped that would lead to a stalemate between two of the civs who judging by their tech were doing well.

This is a 1000Bc minimap. Blame Kon for putting the Indians next to the Babylonians. If you can tell the difference you'll notice that I'm bigger than anyone else. With one city that was about to reach 15 production and the Pyramids that should be good. I'd started thinking about horseman and roads through jungle.

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:49

Researched Republic in 725BC. I was into it by 670BC and started on currency. In 570BC, I got currency but again the Ottomans beat me to it. I was able to trade for Construction and polytheism. Although everyone else was still in despotism, the Ottomans had feudalism.

Although I only had a couple of swordsmen and archers and 7 horsemen, I decided that peace would have to end some time so I declared war on the Indians in 530BC.

Immeadiately, I signed an alliance with the Babylonians. In the 2nd combat, I got a leader. Traded Republic and 35gpt(to cathage) for Monarchy, Feudalism and Engineering. I started researching invention in the hope of building Leo's and having a large(40 or 50 odd) horseman upgrade which could be game-winning. But I still need to road the jungle:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:51

Hoping to get another leader before a decent FP spot, I rushed Sun-Tzu's in 490BC. It didn't get rid of the AI prebuilds however as the Hanging Garden had not yet been built. Liturature had not even been discovered.

In 410BC, I triggered my GA using an Impi. Only an ancient UU can give you a non-despotic GA much before Knights. This GA allowed me to build enough horseman and have enough commerce for a decent Knight upgrade.

In 290BC, I got a second leader which was saved for a decent FP spot.
At that stage I was still along way from completing a road so galleys were used to attack the Indians near their capital (even on a pangea they can be very useful.)

190BC Invention, traded for Literacy and Monotheism. Chivalry started. Zimbabwe was 1 turn from the Hanging Garedns when Invention was discovered.
150BC FP in Bombay. While that's a decent central position, the game was going to be effectively over by the time a second core could be built.

In 70BC, I discovered Chivalry. I had 53 horsemen by then but Leo's was still at least 5 turns away.The Indians were down to 1 city forcing me to sign peace. China still didn't have feudalism and were small enough to virtually eliminate before Knights.

I suppose it's time for a screenshot. FP in Bombay, yellow spreading like the plague:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:52

In 30AD, I made peace with China for a city putting them down to two, one of which is on my island (which wasn't worth colonising. On the same turn the Ottomans declared war on Carthage. Neither the Ottomans nor the Germans had Iron hooked up and their war with Carthage could delay this indefinately.

At this stage, I only had 48 horsemen and 7 of those were elite
In 70AD, Leo's was finally built. 43 knights headed through Carthaginian territory to enlighten the Ottomans.

In 90AD, I decided that some science might be a good idea and started researching Gunpowder in the hope of getting a lead on where the saltpetre was hopefuklly stopping somone from linking it up. I had Chivalry and the Babs had Theology. The Ottomans,Carthage and Germany had neither but everything else. China and India were now irrecoverably behind.
In 110AD, I signed an alliance with Carthage against the Ottomans. They didn't manage to hook up the Iron. So this is a 190AD minimap:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:53

In 210AD, despite our alliance, Carthage wanted to be the next target. Well that's O.K. by me. I got gunpowder and set science to 0%. Who needs cavalry or Education? I think that some rushed Knights might be more useful.

The mercs prove to be able to inflict some losses and to cause cities not to fall unpredictably. But by this stage, it's not going to effect the outcome of the game.

In 280AD, the Babylonians complained that they weren't invited and tried to gatecrash the party. Everyone will join the fun eventually so they might as well give me negative war weariness. Republic is good even for rabid warmongers.

By 310AD, I have a decent portion of the middle of the map:

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:55

The Babylonians did have pikemen which slowed me down a bit.

In 340AD The Germans eliminated the Carthaginians. Not to be outdone, in 360AD, I eliminated the Babylonians and Ottomans. I then declared war on the remaining Germans, Chinese and Indians. None of these had pikes. In 380AD, the Indians were eliminated.

That turn I took China's last city but they had a settler/spearman pair that I couldn't get a Knight to. In 390AD they founded a city and got lots of free units! I'd not seen that before and the bastards were able to take Carthage for a turn depriving me of the HG!

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:57

But by 420AD, it was all over and I had a conquest victory.

Nor Me · May 20, 2003, 20:58

Now that was fun

. As has been said before, if you're sufficiently far ahead all you have to do is build units.

This was easy at the end. Only the Carthaginians and the Babylonians had defence 3 units. No AI discovered Gunpowder and the Great Library remained unbuilt. It helped that the AI civs' wars meant that 2 of them were unable to connect their Iron. Spearmen just don't stand a chance against Knights.
I don't even think I was that lucky after the start. I only got 2 leaders out of about 80 elite victories.

There's a thread out there about never losing after an archer rush but this archer rush was so successful it enabled me to walk through the rest of the game.
Did I mention 420AD?

lmtoops · May 21, 2003, 14:16

Great game Nor Me!!

5 cities with no settler produced, how can someone loose with that head start. Of course you have to have the balls to do the early early war.

Arrian · May 21, 2003, 15:23

Now THAT's how the Zulu should be played. Day-am!

Good games all, but wow, Nor Me.

-Arrian

Mountain Sage · May 22, 2003, 06:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Nor Me
But by 420AD, it was all over and I had a conquest victory.

I spent 12 hours and won only in 1772AD

I *probably* need some more experience with Domination victories

Dominae · May 22, 2003, 23:38

Nor Me, what kind of improvements did you build, and in what frequency (can you say that in English)?

If you say: "None other than Wonders", you've understood what it is to be Zulu.

Dominae

Chemical Ollie · May 23, 2003, 02:54

Now that's a nice game, Nor Me.

What was your score?

I skipped this game, as I was involved with an epic large map as warmongering Zulus. Now I see that I could have done something similar here...

Nor Me · May 23, 2003, 08:58

Quote:

Originally posted by lmtoops
5 cities with no settler produced, how can someone loose with that head start. Of course you have to have the balls to do the early early war.

That depends how late you have those 5 cities. The question is whether I'd have been able to do the same without the free settler in 3900BC.

I replayed the start with the Iroquois and although not getting the early settler made it much worse, I'm still convinced that even a non-militaristic civ with one city should archer rush the Romans before building a settler.

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre
What was your score?

9526 (Only Shaka the Magnificent). A decent early finish but a low landmass standard map is never going to compete with a milked huge map.
I had a histograph screenshot but this page took long enough to load already for its interest

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
Nor Me, what kind of improvements did you build, and in what frequency (can you say that in English)?

If you say: "None other than Wonders", you've understood what it is to be Zulu.

I've seen "and with what frequencies" enough times but never "in" whatever relevance that has.

No! I'm still a builder. After all, there was a large gap between effectively eliminating the Romans and fighting the second war against the Indians.

I thought I'd built too many courthouses because I'd been put off by Despotic corruption since I'd captured medium distance cities early. But looking at it, none is less than 15% corrupt with a courthouse in Republic and from the formula, building a courthouse in Republic is always going to give you at least as many shields and arrows as the switch from Despotism to Republic. So I may have been right.

I've got 5 matketplaces around my core, all put up before the Knight rush for which cash was limiting. I've two temples, one in Zimbabwe which was big early and one in Veii which the Romans inconveniently put between 3 cows with the best city spots not getting them for free.

What were less useful were the libraries. I had 4 around my capital and 5 around the FP. I only researched 2 techs after trading for Literature and one of those was started straight away. Some could have been replaced by temples but I'm too used to libraries being much better from longer games. But then what can 60 knights handle that 50 knights can't with decent reinforcements? A back up cavalry or domination plan might have been more reasonable if resistance was far more than expected. For either of those, libraries would have been good.

I'm still not sure why Konquest02 and Theseus start so many temples in places and times I wouldn't think of in the SG. I had to change a lot to horsemen.

I'm thinking of starting a thread on improvements and why to build them. It might even include a list of them since I've not seen one despite the many lists of civs, their traits, UUs and other units.

Dominae · May 23, 2003, 09:14

Nor Me, I'm surprised you did not participate in the No Improvement Challenge (NIC) with badams52 and I.

Dominae

Arrian · May 23, 2003, 09:42

Hmmm.... Improvements and when to build them...

That's worthy of a thread.

I'm still much more of a "builder" than you, Nor Me. Like Theseus & Kon, I bet I start a lot of improvements when you would be pumping horsemen.

The one improvement I spend a lot of time & effort on and am convinced I'm right about is the courthouse.

I build more temples earlier than are necessary (Dominae and I have had a good discussion about that), but that's because I'm almost fanatical about keeping my people happy. I don't think I can or want to change that. NIC, for instance, sounds like Civ hell for me.

-Arrian