Gator, Spawn Of Satan

Inverse Icarus · May 4, 2003, 12:27

alright markos, i know poly needs to make money, and i don't use popup blockers, i actively support the site when i can.

but gator just installed on my system while on poly. GATOR.

watch who you get in bed with markos, this piece of **** is a ****ing virus in every sense of the word

Spiffor · May 4, 2003, 12:31

Ugh.
Gator really, really sucks. I hope you get rid of this pest quickly

Inverse Icarus · May 4, 2003, 12:35

it's gone, but the fact that poly gave me it is wrong. bad markos, BAD!

::smacks with newspaper::

Rasbelin · May 4, 2003, 13:09

Jesus, what kind of a browser do you have and with what settings? Get a real browser any Gecko powered browser or Opera, plus set proper settings. I have had no spyware issues with Poly since I started manually handle all cookies and block any pop-up windows with Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla.

None the less, that's a bad move, Markos. In general you get very cookified nowadays on Poly, unless you handle them manually or block all cookies. qkserv.net, adserv.com, etc. Plus of course the vB cookie from apolyton.net.

Solver · May 4, 2003, 13:19

Quote:

Get a real browser any Gecko powered browser or Opera, plus set proper settings.

Never, never, never, NEVER use Opera! Not only it's a terrible browser (and I've seen it since it emerged), it also might have spyware in it... I had a nice article somewhere.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 13:23

hi ,

UberKRUX , www.zonelabs.com and www.finjan.com , both have free products to protect you , .....

have a nice day

Rasbelin · May 4, 2003, 13:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Solver

Quote:

Get a real browser any Gecko powered browser or Opera, plus set proper settings.

Never, never, never, NEVER use Opera! Not only it's a terrible browser (and I've seen it since it emerged), it also might have spyware in it... I had a nice article somewhere.

Yes, I know that article by The Register. However I have also seen the official response from Opera Software and the discussion about it. There's no firm evidence by impartial parties and Opera Software has denied it and come forward with a good explanation.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 13:50

hi ,

grc.com , steve gibson has written a coule things about it , ......

have a nice day

MarkG · May 4, 2003, 14:11

if you could give more info on how you got gator....

Solver · May 4, 2003, 14:47

Quote:

Yes, I know that article by The Register. However I have also seen the official response from Opera Software and the discussion about it. There's no firm evidence by impartial parties and Opera Software has denied it and come forward with a good explanation.

Hmm, I could confirm impartially

. Well, whatever, Opera has never done a good thing for me

.

Rasbelin · May 4, 2003, 16:03

I.e. use a Gecko browser.

ixnay · May 4, 2003, 16:07

Opera is great.

/me IE convert

orange · May 4, 2003, 16:26

almost as bad as Xupiter

Ming · May 4, 2003, 17:28

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
if you could give more info on how you got gator....

That's a good question... are you even sure you got it from Apolyton, since nobody else is claiming that they got it from here

Panag · May 4, 2003, 17:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

That's a good question... are you even sure you got it from Apolyton, since nobody else is claiming that they got it from here

hi ,

yep , it tried about 5 min ago to start , .... just a pop - up saying , do you want to install , .....

but with a simple tool like the free zonealarm it does not pop

have a nice day

Rasbelin · May 4, 2003, 18:01

That's like using duct tape to fix the problem. The problem doesn't disappear, you only try to hinder it. What is needed that the actual problem, i.e. Gator, should be removed and that people use browsers that are secure and don't cause as much trouble as MSIE with spyware.

Sorry, Panag, but that's enough Zone Alarm advertising for now. What is needed is action and finding good longterm solutions. Zone Alarm can be a part of that on the end-user level, but also ACS has to take action. Now help Markos and post any screenshots or code from that pop-up which reveals the source of it, if you see Gator. I don't, so I cannot help with that, but I can suggest good end-user level solutions instead.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasbelin
That's like using duct tape to fix the problem. The problem doesn't disappear, you only try to hinder it. What is needed that the actual problem, i.e. Gator, should be removed and that people use browsers that are secure and don't cause as much trouble as MSIE with spyware.

Sorry, Panag, but that's enough Zone Alarm advertising for now. What is needed is action and finding good longterm solutions. Zone Alarm can be a part of that on the end-user level, but also ACS has to take action. Now help Markos and post any screenshots or code from that pop-up which reveals the source of it, if you see Gator. I don't, so I cannot help with that, but I can suggest good end-user level solutions instead.

hi ,

it comes after log on , after the big red pop up , .... then you get a small window asking if you want to install gator , ..... at the same time a small pop - up jumps open in about the middle of the page but nothing is in it , .....

a couple months ago the same thing happend here at poly , ....

was there not a thread or so about it then

have a nice night

Rasbelin · May 4, 2003, 18:37

Hmm... I couldn't find that thread straight away.

We did have that Xupiter thread at least.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 18:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasbelin
Hmm... I couldn't find that thread straight away.

We did have that Xupiter thread at least.

hi ,

gator download , ..... around september or so , .... there was some talk about it , .....

well i checked again and not a single other window was open except for poly ( twice ) stupid gator software

have a nice day

DrSpike · May 4, 2003, 19:12

I have seen the "do you want to install gator" message. Of course this is bad but not pushing "yes" seems to be quite an effective defence.

Panag · May 4, 2003, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
I have seen the "do you want to install gator" message. Of course this is bad but not pushing "yes" seems to be quite an effective defence.

hi ,

just tested this on a microsoftME OS and the darn browser ( ie ) freezes , ......

have a nice day

Spiffor · May 4, 2003, 19:22

The problem is that many computer-illiterates might fall for it when visiting 'Poly. And I sure wouldn't want 'Poly to be associated with gator's criminal business

Panag · May 4, 2003, 19:43

Web surfers brace for pop-up downloads

By Stefanie Olsen
Staff Writer
April 8, 2002, 4:00 AM PT

Web surfers who thought online advertisements were becoming increasingly obtrusive may be dismayed by a new tactic: pop-up downloads.
In recent weeks, some software makers have enlisted Web site operators to entice their visitors to download software rather than simply to view some advertising. For example, when visiting a site a person may receive a pop-up box that appears as a security warning with the message: "Do you accept this download?" If the consumer clicks "Yes," an application is automatically installed.

Computer security expert Richard Smith explained that with such downloads, "You don't even know why you're getting this program, and the people who do (pop-up downloads) are relying on the fact that people tend to say 'Yes.'"

"A person should (be able to) request the download" if they want it, or decline it if they don't, he said. "It's the classic opt-in, opt-out debate."

In some cases, people are not even asked whether they want the software. It just installs on the hard drive--a particularly troublesome tactic that some have dubbed "drive-by download."

Some Net users have complained of receiving downloads containing a virus that automatically redirects them to adult-related sites. Such downloads also have been known to install new dial-up programs replacing the existing accounts. The Federal Trade Commission recently brought a case against people who were using such tactics to install a dial-up account for expensive 1-900 numbers.

But those horror stories are the exception. More typically, software makers are simply using the downloads to distribute legitimate products.

One well-known practitioner is Gator, a company that makes a helper application that manages passwords and user IDs. While many people find the software to be useful, Gator also has built in some more questionable features.

The company came under fire last year for selling ads that appeared over the top of ads already existing on major sites such as Yahoo.

While Gator later retreated from its earlier practices, about six weeks ago it turned to download advertising, called "one-click opt-install," on various partner sites.

In addition, online advertising network L90 has sold the one-click downloads on various consenting network sites. Its ad network includes AllBusiness.com, The Golf Channel online and Hollywood.com, according to its Web site.

Look at me
Ads-as-downloads are the latest ploy by software makers to help aggressively distribute technology to a wider audience. They also represent the newest twist on pop-ups and other attention-getting pitches.

In the last year and a half, Net advertising has undergone vast transformations as publishers have sought new revenue sources to make up for a sharp decline in ad dollars. As a result, ads appear bigger, obscure content for a brief time, or use sound to attract attention.

And that's just on the top sites. In less-trafficked areas of the Net, the tactics are even bolder. Some Web sites have been known to launch up to 10 pop-up pages or to use tricks such as "mousetrapping," in which the site launches multiple windows when the visitor tries to exit the page. This clutter has created a haven for pop-up downloads because consumers find it hard to determine the ad's origin.

For Gator, triggering a download via an ad boosts distribution of its wallet and bundled marketing software, the OfferCompanion. To support its free software, the company sells targeted ads to nearly 300 advertisers on OfferCompanion, which delivers price comparisons.

Gator's technologies have already been widely distributed through bundling deals with other popular applications such as WeatherBug and through direct distribution from its site. With nearly 13 million users, according to the company, it's pushing saturation, and it has sought to find new modes of distribution.

"When you hit critical mass, you don't have a lot of options...It's helping expand our reach," said Scott Eagle, marketing manager for Gator.

"We're working (directly) with publishers buying various pop-up advertising; one of them is the popping up of the (security) prompt. (It) says, 'Would you like to try this application? Click here if you do,'" said Eagle, adding that the campaign is still a small piece of the company's distribution.

Several Web publishers said they have been approached by L90 or Gator to run such download ads, but they refused out of fear of a consumer backlash.

"We thought it was dirty," said one Internet executive who asked to remain anonymous. "It's the kind of thing that makes the phone ring."

One executive referred to the download as a "warhead" because it's a small file that executes automatically and always runs in the background. The software verifies whether the computer already has the software, the system is compatible, and cookies are on.

Is it too easy?
Elliot Noss, owner of 9-year-old download site Tucows, said that though he was surprised to receive a prompt for a Gator download, he's savvy to such marketing tactics and declined to accept it. But he's not so sure a Web neophyte would know better.

"An unsophisticated user like my poor mother would have presumed it was something like a browser plug-in necessary to view the site and (would OK) the download," said Noss. "But downloading software especially for unsophisticated users can cause lots of grief and pain. Before something like a download is provided, it should be very clearly requested."

Gator's Eagle said the program is an easy way for visitors to download the software, and he emphasized that they are given the opportunity to click "No." He said the company has done extensive research to find out if this is a valuable means to install software; the results have been "overwhelmingly positive."

"There's no question that there (are) programs that are more aggressive. With this, there's some measure of permission," said Eagle.

Gator buys the ads by the thousands, but Eagle would not divulge what it pays. Sources in the ad industry say the company spends between $2 and $5 per thousand ads. Typical ad rates can run anywhere from about $7 to $20 for general rotation on a top site such as Yahoo. Gator also has affiliate relationships with many sites, which it pays $1 every time a visitor downloads its software.

Gator isn't the only software maker using this tactic to add consumers. Others advertising through downloads include Activator Download and C2 Media.

Meanwhile, InternetFuel, a marketing services company, sells creative ways for software makers to increase downloads. "Does your online business application require a download? InternetFuel can effectively market your download to the user. We offer a variety of delivery options," according to its Web site.

An L90 representative said download pop-ups have been allowed on its network. She said Gator's ad ran on its network of 150 publishers--of those that agreed--and a lower-profile set of publishers called Zonfire.

Among the sites that automatic downloads have appeared on are Innovators of Wrestling, MP3Yes.com, and the Web community site EZBoard. Such sites often launch so many pop-up windows it's hard to determine where the download originated.

A representative for the Interactive Advertising Bureau said the practice is so new that the organization could not comment specifically on it. But the representative said the IAB generally endorses practices that are clearly labeled and are not deceptive.

The IAB recently signed off on a Gator initiative, called online advertising "rules of engagement," which espoused the importance of clearly marking advertisements and the origin of ads.

"Consumers want control of their PCs," Gator President Jeff McFadden said in a statement. "They're confused as to who is responsible for displaying these high volumes of uninvited pop-ups and pop-unders, and they are becoming frustrated. This is hurting ad responsiveness and is giving a black eye to the online advertising industry."

hi ,

found that here > http://www.cexx.org/gator.htm

have a nice day

Ming · May 4, 2003, 19:49

Now let me get this straight... UberKruX is whining about software HE AGREED TO INSTALL...

In the future UberKruX... when somebody asks you something... it's ok to say NO.

Skanky Burns · May 4, 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally posted by ixnay
Opera is great.

* ixnay IE convert

Oh and Ming, there are *other* virus addons for IE that actually bypass the "asking for permission" stage and install new viruses directly into IE just from visiting an infected page. So he didn't necessarily say yes to this one.

Ming · May 4, 2003, 20:19

But it sure looks that way... Nobody else here seems to have the same problem he has...

I only chuckle at people who click yes when they see pop ups like that...

Panag · May 4, 2003, 20:39

hi ,

Mark , some info on the bug ; "precision time / datamanger , free 10 second GAIN ad support

the thing is marked at 27.03.03 19.49

verisign 2001 - 4 CA

this is it field > http://webpdp.gator.com/v3/webpdp_v3...=HIC_RydiumINT

visit the above link for more info , .....

from that link ; This is the advertising spyware module. It is responsible for spying on your Web browsing habits, downloading and displaying pop-up ads, and transmitting (personal?) information to Gator.

have a nice day

pop up that causes it > the access my pc from anywhere , ...???

optimus2861 · May 4, 2003, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
I only chuckle at people who click yes when they see pop ups like that...

This seems to be something of a poisonous attitude of a site moderator to take, toward a user complaining of potential spyware (or worse) infestation on his computer, possibly arising from advertisers affiliated with the site.

I would think you'd want to take it more seriously, perhaps double-check on your current advertising partners and make sure there's no spyware attempting to "drive-by download". There's no faster way to ensure your site's users will put up ad-blockers then to wind up affiliated with the leeches of the internet.

UberKruX, and anyone else who's interested in locking down your IE security settings, have a look at http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/resource.htm#IESPYAD You can download a file of sitenames of many of the known junkpushers of the net, that get added to your "Restricted Sites" list in IE 5.0 and up. Keep the security settings for your Restricted Zone set to High, and the scumbags can't set cookies or attempt ActiveX downloads at all on your computer. This does not block the ad itself (thus not drawing the ire of site admins), but does save you from harmful side-effects.

Ming · May 5, 2003, 00:43

Quote:

Originally posted by optimus2861

This seems to be something of a poisonous attitude of a site moderator to take, toward a user complaining of potential spyware (or worse) infestation on his computer, possibly arising from advertisers affiliated with the site.

I would think you'd want to take it more seriously, perhaps double-check on your current advertising partners and make sure there's no spyware attempting to "drive-by download". There's no faster way to ensure your site's users will put up ad-blockers then to wind up affiliated with the leeches of the internet.

First... If he was silly enough to click YES to a pop up... I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for him.

And second... I'm only a moderator... not a site admin or owner. They are the ones that work with the advertising partners... and in the past, the owners have shown their willingness to not work with partners that cause problems. Many times they have listened to their members and dropped partnerships...

But get real... people who click yes when a pop up appears need to rethink their own security issues. It's like somebody saying... I thought the gun was empty...

Spiffor · May 5, 2003, 02:48

Ming :

Well, UbeKrux knows how to use a computer, so it is surprising he ever clicked yes to an ad popup

However, we have many people here who are not computer whizzes, and who can fall under the category of "people who'll simply click on yes" (the aim of such popups).