Ultimate Power: a more pragmatic approach - Page 10

fanes7 · September 12, 2003, 00:27

Saw your reply , but I still don't know if I reloaded.

I save and load as you everyone do , I play and battle as you everyone do too . The one and only difference is I play as a deity but you play as monarch or emperor , and another , I gain much more achievement than yours.

In the everygame we can see the cheater , such as in Age of Empire or Heroes 3or4(Magic&Might ) . If you are a cheater , the game will give you a rank of "cheater", even your rank level is as high as far more 3000 . Not one can sentence someone else a cheater just because he built more wonder than him.

If the game don't want player save and load frequently , the game designer can limited the game only can be saved in some fixed time point . For example , you can only save your file at 3000BC , 1750BC, 1200BC and so on, or just as Diablo , you save & quit . If the game have not such rule like this , everyone can save and load at anytime he want.

BtW, I played CIV and all other games for a long time , I am more familiar about many games and many games' rule than you , I am more authoritative than you to judge a man a cheater.

If really there is a jury to judge my skill and save-file , I would be very pleasure to attend. And before this , if you want to advance your game skill , please trust me.

Master Zen · September 12, 2003, 00:51

fanes7,

I'm sorry but saying that saving and loading is NOT cheating is utterly wrong. Again, I am not one to tell you how to play your game, but you can't come here, boast about some amazing achievement or strategy, and not mention that it was done by doing something that is simply unacceptable to most players and doesn't reflect any great feat or skill on your part other than you have much more patience for re-playing every move than we do.

Saving and reloading just to produce better results is an unacceptable method of play in serious competitions. If it weren't, then all of us here could be beating Deity with our eyes closed. Where is the challenge in robbing the game of it's luck? Luck can be good and luck can be bad, the RNG works both ways. However, by saving and reloading you are eliminating all the bad luck for yourself.

Consequently, how can that be considered fair? It is not. It is cheating to do that in any competition game and any PBEM.

Quote:

I save and load as you everyone do

Sorry mate, we don't.

Tassadar500 · September 12, 2003, 01:00

Master Zen well said

Fanes we are not jealous of you. To criticize us and to say what you said personally insults me. I know many people who could destroy in a civ match. How do you know I don't play Deity? We have asked you at least 5 times but you never responded. Then finally you admit that you cheated.

vmxa1 · September 12, 2003, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by fanes7
Saw your reply , but I still don't know if I reloaded.

I save and load as you everyone do , I play and battle as you everyone do too . The one and only difference is I play as a deity but you play as monarch or emperor , and another , I gain much more achievement than yours.

In the everygame we can see the cheater , such as in Age of Empire or Heroes 3or4(Magic&Might ) . If you are a cheater , the game will give you a rank of "cheater", even your rank level is as high as far more 3000 . Not one can sentence someone else a cheater just because he built more wonder than him.

If the game don't want player save and load frequently , the game designer can limited the game only can be saved in some fixed time point . For example , you can only save your file at 3000BC , 1750BC, 1200BC and so on, or just as Diablo , you save & quit . If the game have not such rule like this , everyone can save and load at anytime he want.

BtW, I played CIV and all other games for a long time , I am more familiar about many games and many games' rule than you , I am more authoritative than you to judge a man a cheater.

If really there is a jury to judge my skill and save-file , I would be very pleasure to attend. And before this , if you want to advance your game skill , please trust me.

Well I enjoyed your diatribe, but it is full crap. I am sure I am a better MM player than you and maybe anyone. I know MM6/7/8 inside out and the same for Homm2/3/4, not to mention Moo1/II. If you reload, you are not playing the same as me. You are not achieving anything, but are just willing to spent lots of time to get the results you want. That is not what I would call skill, merely dedication.
You are also wrong about the games labeling you a cheater, if you reload or use an editor, it will not know.
Homm will call you a cheater if you use cheat codes, same as AoW another game I played a lot. Consider I have all day to play and always have the best machine, it is not likely you are more familar with those games than I am, but if your ae so what. I have refrained from calling you a cheater and was willing to give you respect. I now with draw that respect. I do that because you said you do not know if you reload, please, that will not fly. You have known since the get go that it would not be well recieved and you tried to hide it. Then you tried to make it personal, by thumping your chest.
It is not important to me if you are the best player in the world, but I cannot learn anything from someone that thinks it is fine to reload copiously. That is boring.
I told you from the start that I had no respect for solo players in MM8 that will reload 50 to 100 times to get a scroll, as that was the only way they could get the job done.
I agree with Master Zen that you are entitled to reload, but your are not entitled to crow about achievements after doing it.

My first thumbs down after about 6000 post.

Harovan · September 12, 2003, 03:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
Which is the reason I don't bother to count once blitz units come around. Panzers & MA are just ridiculously good at leader generation.

Yes, they are. I remember my latest Russian game, where I had the "1-ya Gvardii Tankovaya Armiya", an army with four elite* Modern Armors in it. Nothing could stop Uncle Joe (I had to replace Cathy).

On the topic of the discussion: I wonder why it's still active. The odds of winning battles, promoting units or generating leaders aren't dependent neither on the difficulty level, nor on some special skills, but are based on sole luck. Who thinks he has to increase the odds by reloading till he gets good RNG results, should do so (that's something similar to masturbation, though) and keep quiet. One can either brag or reload, but not both.

Master Zen · September 12, 2003, 05:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Who thinks he has to increase the odds by reloading till he gets good RNG results, should do so (that's something similar to masturbation, though) and keep quiet.

I wonder who brags about that in RL though...

Dominae · September 12, 2003, 11:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
One can either brag or reload, but not both.

I think that's why everyone is taken aback here: fanes7 is bragging about reloading...

Dominae

vmxa1 · September 12, 2003, 11:39

To tell you the truth, I am not even sure you could get the leaders on demand with reloads. If you could it must take massive attempts and I just have a hard time with the idea that an adult would be willing to do that in each game. I can see it now a reg warrior need maybe 16 tries to get promo to vet. It needs another 12 or more to make elite and then maybe 16 more to make a leader.
Now that sounds like fun. What if it needs more than 16 tries? I mean what if you also lose the battle, now how loads are required?

Arrian · September 12, 2003, 15:06

It actually sounded to me like he was saying that he didn't reload (in the sense he's being accused of), but rather saved the game to stop playing for a bit, and loaded it when he was ready to play again, like we all do.

I still don't believe the results he claims, but I think there may be something of a communication problem here.

-Arrian

Tall Stranger · September 12, 2003, 15:56

There may be a communication problem, but facts are stubborn things, and there is simply no honest way to accomplish the feats he claims. As Sir Ralph rightly points out, GL generation is NOT a measure of skill. Period. And Sir Ralph, I'm (quite literally) not going to touch your, er, interesting analogy!

vmxa1, you've been far kinder to this guy than he deserves. In fact, the entire forum has been more than patient with this guy, but deep down everyone knows the truth: he's a cheat.

fanes7, I'd call myself an above-average player. You may very well be a better player than I, but we'll never know, because I'll never play you and I'll never believe any claim you make in this forum about your ability. I've been an active participant in other, similar game sites/ newsgroups, and I've seen a lot of people like you who make outlandish claims about their skill. Most of them, like you, cheat. What I've learned is that the really good players are the ones who 1) let their verifyable accomplishments do the talking; 2) give support to less-skilled players in the form of logical, useful advice; and 3) conduct themselves in a respectable manner. You don't meet these criteria. The worst part is, I can't think of a less-satisfying way of playing the game than having absolutely no doubt about the outcome. Can you imagine how long his games must take, with all that reloading?

I think it's safe to say the value of this conversation is rapidly approaching zero.

[Sarcasm on]

BTW, have I told everyone about my incredible skill at this game? I can win every single battle without ever losing a single hit point. See all you have to do is....

vmxa1 · September 12, 2003, 16:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
It actually sounded to me like he was saying that he didn't reload (in the sense he's being accused of), but rather saved the game to stop playing for a bit, and loaded it when he was ready to play again, like we all do.

I still don't believe the results he claims, but I think there may be something of a communication problem here.

-Arrian

Here is what he said:

"If the game don't want player save and load frequently , the game designer can limited the game only can be saved in some fixed time point . For example , you can only save your file at 3000BC , 1750BC, 1200BC and so on, or just as Diablo , you save & quit . If the game have not such rule like this , everyone can save and load at anytime he want.

BtW, I played CIV and all other games for a long time , I am more familiar about many games and many games' rule than you , I am more authoritative than you to judge a man a cheater."

Ignoring the boasting, he says that the game allows frequent save and loads. Yup, it sure does, but it is not meant to be abused. I love DiabloII and have no problem with the save system.
So it seems to me that that is as clear as a signal as you are likely o get that it is a reload fest. Like I have said, I have talked to people that have literally told me they see no problem with reloading 100 times in MM to get a scroll or any item they need. what can I say to that thought process?
Believe me, I know I am not the end all civ player, but I am pretty well up on it. I know MM and Homm and MOO about 10 times better than civ.

Arrian · September 12, 2003, 16:49

Quote:

what can I say to that thought process?

Sputter incoherently and walk away in disgust. But that's me...

-Arrian

fanes7 · September 12, 2003, 22:00

Haha, I saw all of your reply, but it seems no one of you can proof I was cheating, all that you talk are lucky , lucky and more luck . If you are more lucky , then you can complete this.

All that I do in the game can be recured at any time. If you want repeat my progress , you can start a savefile at 4000BC, and I will tell you every move , tell you how you can get a GL at 3150BC or more early. So all that I do are legitimate and logistic , because, if you do as I say you will get GL more early and more much. In the recured game you never need save and load , because I already find a path to get the GL , it is like a accurate route in thousands of path , all we do are find that route which lead to success .

The history can't be change, and that is why we play game, we want Columbus find America more early, we also want French can first mount to the Moon and even we want US can be win in Korean War, so that's why we want to play this game and that's why we love this game so much .

All of us want to load the history at 4000BC or other time-point and replay the history , So all we do in the game is find a right path for history , what is the most efficient , most peaceful , most civilized and most glorious route for the thousands of history path, we must choose , not the damnable and idiotic president or premier . History , past and future, is mine .

vmxa1 · September 12, 2003, 22:32

fanes7 so far all we have is your posted boast, nothing more.
You want saves, go to the AUSG101 and download it. There are several DAR's and more will be coming.
So here is your chance to set us straight, otherwise you are not going to sway anyone.
You can post your step by step with a few saves right in this thread and shut us all up. If not maybe you should understand it will be precieved as an admission that you can not do what you claim. I said before, if you make big claims, the burden of proof is on you, not us.
Frankly I would love to see it, but will not hold my breath.

fanes7 · September 12, 2003, 22:45

Haha , Maybe I should thank your vmxa1. Giving you a route to success is my pleasure , I will tell you every move , and all you do are just doing as I said and proofing my correct route.

But now I was playing Gotm23, and maybe I need a more week to finish it . I don't know if I can upload my Gotm23 savefile at this site, or , hehe, maybe I just tell you how to do ?

vmxa1 · September 12, 2003, 23:06

No need, we no where to find GOTM. Anyway you have month to play GOTM and it should not take an hour to get 40-50 turns in AUSG1.
Whats 3150 about 10 turns, not going to take very long, just minutes.
Anyway one can not play GOTM savefiles after around GOTM15 without the mods and I don't have them or want them. We can how ever read DAR/AAR and see screen shots.

fanes7 · September 12, 2003, 23:24

pls give me a savefile in the reply of this thread , ok ?

Again, my PC is very slow (cpu: 433, memory 96), so 40-50 turns means 5 or 6 hours. Now I am working, so tomorrow I give you a route , is this ok ?

vmxa1 · September 12, 2003, 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by fanes7
pls give me a savefile in the reply of this thread , ok ?

Again, my PC is very slow (cpu: 433, memory 96), so 40-50 turns means 5 or 6 hours. Now I am working, so tomorrow I give you a route , is this ok ?

Here you go:

fanes7 · September 12, 2003, 23:51

hehe, arabia, is that seem as the gotm23 ?

You should know that :

The loading and recuring is not cheating.

and the reloading and can't recuring is cheating.

In a game that RNG is saved , we are all fair, and all we do are find a correct route . Thank you , have a nice day !

Tassadar500 · September 13, 2003, 00:28

fanes7 you are actually wrong. If you put Random Seed off you are able to reload. And it's too late to have that signature. Panag already took it.

vmxa1 · September 13, 2003, 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by fanes7
hehe, arabia, is that seem as the gotm23 ?

You should know that :

The loading and recuring is not cheating.

and the reloading and can't recuring is cheating.

In a game that RNG is saved , we are all fair, and all we do are find a correct route . Thank you , have a nice day !

I know that, but I have no control over either. I did not create them. It is just a coincidence.
I do not know what you mean by recurring? Recurring means to happen again or repeatedly. I already told and I am sure you know that you can defeat the randon saved seed or RNG. So it does not mean all that much, but it is a deterent. It will make it unlikely to alter the outcomes in a drastic way. If you reload and take the exact same action, then it will repeat. If you do not take the same actions in the exact same order, it will not always repeat. We figured that out before you could choose to preserve it or not.
I am sure you grasp that the first time I mentioned it.
So lets not beat that dead horse any longer.
Anyway as I said it is easy to just lay it out in a detailed AAR with a few approriate saves and the whole this will be resolved. You will be proven correct or not. If so, then I for one will be more than willing to eat all the humble pie you wish to throw at me. I am like that, if you show me where I am wrong, I am willing to smile and acknowledge my mistake. I have been known to make them from time to time.

fanes7 · September 14, 2003, 08:01

I load the savefile you give me , and occur an I/O error , the file is bad.

Pls give me another savefile.

fanes7 · September 14, 2003, 08:05

Quote:

Originally posted by fanes7
Haha, I saw all of your reply, but it seems no one of you can proof I was cheating, all that you talk are lucky , lucky and more luck . If you are more lucky , then you can complete this.

All that I do in the game can be recured at any time. If you want repeat my progress , you can start a savefile at 4000BC, and I will tell you every move , tell you how you can get a GL at 3150BC or more early. So all that I do are legitimate and logistic , because, if you do as I say you will get GL more early and more much. In the recured game you never need save and load , because I already find a path to get the GL , it is like a accurate route in thousands of path , all we do are find that route which lead to success .

The history can't be change, and that is why we play game, we want Columbus find America more early, we also want French can first mount to the Moon and even we want US can be win in Korean War, so that's why we want to play this game and that's why we love this game so much .

All of us want to load the history at 4000BC or other time-point and replay the history , So all we do in the game is find a right path for history , what is the most efficient , most peaceful , most civilized and most glorious route for the thousands of history path, we must choose , not the damnable and idiotic president or premier . History , past and future, is mine .

I explained very clear in upper , we are consistent as a player in the game.

Cort Haus · September 14, 2003, 10:13

Poor old Mountain Sage. Is this the thread-jack of the year?

Panag · September 14, 2003, 11:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
fanes7 you are actually wrong. If you put Random Seed off you are able to reload. And it's too late to have that signature. Panag already took it.

hi ,

, what , the " have a nice day " , .......

anyone can post that as a sig , in fact the more people the better

have a great sunday afternoon

Theseus · September 14, 2003, 13:12

Jesu Christo...

fanes7, play 40 turns of ANY of AU game 20X or higher, and post the result.

Otherwise... well, about to flame you, but I will restrain myself. People here at Apolyton know that I am a pretty calm sort, but there have been two posters in the past who have similarly made me blow my top (HappySunShine and the leet guy).

Show me... or go away.

vmxa1 · September 14, 2003, 14:55

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=83557

Here you can find all the AU games, help yourself.

vmxa1 · September 14, 2003, 14:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Poor old Mountain Sage. Is this the thread-jack of the year?

Nah, we are still trying to get to the UP. It is just a very esoteric portion of how to do it, that is being debated.

Cort Haus · September 14, 2003, 15:35

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Nah, we are still trying to get to the UP. It is just a very esoteric portion of how to do it, that is being debated.

I see, and the debate has shifted to the role of CTRL-L in UP. Or not.

vmxa1 · September 14, 2003, 18:01

NO we are trying to ascertain if it is in fact possible to get all wonders in one city, legally and if so how. I think you would agree that would go a long way towards UP, if you could get a leader by 3150 every time.
Anyway my response of "Nah" was meant to be a mild jest.