Marijuanian Space Program: Declassified!!!

[Whaleboy]

The Marijuanian Space program would like to publically announce the full extent of our technological development. Kept secret for now due to operational concerns, we have now reached a state where we feel it is both acceptable and desireable for all sides to share in this marvellous advance.

Whilst working on a university thesis, a young physics student stumbled across a concept called "Transdimensional Quantum Theory". Upon working on this idea for a few months, he decided to liase with his universities computing and design department, to create the worlds first "Matter/Anti-Matter Pattern Conversion Replicator", or "MAMPhuCkeR".

This small experimental device, created out of the enormous freedoms the Marijuanian education and social system provides, enables one to take a quantity of matter, initially deuterium variant hydrogen, but now anything up to iron, and bombard it with anti-leptons. This reduces the matter into top-quarks, which can be stored magnetically.

A quantum electrical energy signature is then applied to the raw matter, which corresponds to the specifications of the desired output. Streaming the excited matter at the correct frequency through a subatomic lensing crystal (available at all good stockists) creates an anti-matter clone of the pattern. Again bombarding this with anti-leptons, although this time harmonic at the inverse frequency of of the quantum electrical energy signature, creates a normal matter clone of the original pattern.

Put simply, one takes something that one wishes replicated, a similar quantity of matter, the the MamPhuCkeR scans the subject, and converts the raw matter into a clone of the subject.

The implications of this development, from space travel, to society and economics, were highly profound, so the university faculty decided to give this information to the modestly huge resources of the Marijuanian Institude of Science and Technology, or "MIST".

Realising the full entailments of this technology, MIST agreed that the best place for testing and development for this technology was not here on Earth, but rather in the giant chemical, physical and quantum laboratory known as space. Upon this realisation, they promptly began work on a starship prototype.

The resulting MSS Phallus was essentially a sub-light speed, carnivourous computer. Developed from existing technology, mostly kindly loaned by the various private consortiums of Marijuanian orbital launchers (in return for carpeting contracts... heavy ****pile is the only substance in the known universe that MAMPhuCkeR cannot replicate), this ship made a long secret voyage to the depths of the Oort Cloud. This enormous taurus of debris left over from the formation of the solar system, stretches from the orbit of Neptune to over 2 light years from the Sun.

As the Phallus toured this giant wasteland, experimenting on different elements and rocks, the computer, using this data, and in parallel with mainframes back in Marijuania, slowly but surely calculated the ideal shape and specifications for a starship.

Meantime, back in Marijuania, in shady bars and secluded country-spots, the nations top scientists, physists, metaphysicists and other philosophers, worked together to create the technology, idealogy and methodology to make this entire endeavor work.

In a veritable feast of brain power, a flood of synaptic juices, humanity, Marijuanian humanity, was able to accomplish what no other society had done in history. Thanks to the MAMPhuCkeR, Marijuania had developed the ability to travel faster than the speed of light, transport men and material across huge distances through transportation, the ability to take worthless lumps of matter and recycle them into useful and hugely complex pieces of machinery. Not only was this a huge lump, in line with the nature of the exponential growth in technology (we were long overdue for a revalation after the half-century of technological consolidation following World War II), but Marijuania had again done something never done before.

Marijuania had escaped, at least in theory, from the iron shackles of economics. MAMPhuCkeR is a technology that can enable people to have, for all intents and purposes, infinite resources, which can now meet infinite human want as opposed to finite human desire.

However, these developments have not fed through to the population yet. However, as you read this, the Marijuanian population is now being made fully aware of these developments, to the same extend as those nations reading this.*The full theoretical information is being freed up to the population, in concurrence with government freedom of information doctrines. The power consumption of these devices is currently too large for domestic use, and society must be developed to the point at which it can use these devices. The social potential is enormous, but irrelevant here.

MIST has now carried forward its plans for a class of starships. The Nation of Marijuania is now proud to announce a fleet of 200 Challenger class vessels, named in honour of those who died in the tragic explosion of 1986. In honour of the more recent disaster, the flagship of the fleet has been christened, "MSS Columbia".

The Challenger class of starship is like nothing seen by humanity before. Its capabilities, with regards to propulsion, are similar to the "Grey's" UFO's, of probing fame. This incidentally, is the first mission of the fleet, the Marijuanian Interstellar Navy.

The transdimensional drive, actually twists the four dimensional space-time continuum, creating a wormhole through which the ship travels. The theoretical maximum speed of this ship is 8 billion kilometres per second, or 26'667 X faster than the speed of light. This velocity will likely increase with extra development.

Whereas it would take light from the sun 4 years to reach the nearest star, Alpha Centuri, it takes the MSS Columbia and her sister ships around 1 hour, 10 minutes to make the same journey. Two million years would take light to the Andromeda galaxy, whereas the Challenger class could make the trip in just under 75 years, a time that would hopefully come down in the future.

The obvious problems of relativistic time-dilation caused by this speed are countered by a relativistic driver on board each vessel, which manipulates the space-time continuum on board to keep it concurrent with the outside. When travelling at superlumial velocities, the ship is in reality travelling far far slower, as through the wormhole, it can travel accross the galaxy at a walking pace! As such, the effects of relativity are negligible.

The production costs of these vessels is suprisingly low. Marijuania does have a relatively large R&D budget, however, to develop even one of these ships, let alone 200, would cripple even the best economies in the region. Using conventional resources that is.

Use of the MAMPhuCkeR is mutually beneficial. One creates technology from theory and design, using the MAMPhuCkeR, which enhaces its own design, enabling the rate of technological growth to sky-rocket, while the cost of source materials and power remains merely industrial. As soon as the MSS Columbia was fully running, shielded from Earth's view in a Lagrange orbit around Uranus, she was able to easily and quickly spawn new vessels. Production was halted two weeks ago, as demand for crew outstripped supply.

Marijuania now has 200 stupendously advanced interstellar FTL explorer starships to her fine name, and other classes of vessel are on the drawing board.

Now onto the specifications and explanations of the ships themselves.

Firstly manpower. Each starship requires a crew of 250 to operate at peak efficiency, a figure boasted by all but 14 vessels of the line. A vessel can be run at 80% efficiency with only 65 people on board, and can complete its core functions with as low as 12. A ship can be piloted, maneuvered and engaged in light ship to ship combat with no damage inflicted to the Challenger class with one man on board. This is without the computers assistance.

The computer technology however, can greatly reduce the load on humans. Most higher command, control and maintainance functions can be controlled by computers, and the vast majority of missions can in fact be completed with no life-forms on board. However, computers have not, nor have come close, to emulating the complexity of the human mind, and so, it is prudent to have a crew on board.

The Challenger class of starship is primarily an explorer, and as such, it is equipped with a vast array of sensors, scanners, computers and laboratories. With a crew consisting of good scientists, and surroundings and phenonenon of sufficient interest, a starship is capable of equalling and exceeding the scientific output of Marijuania, one of the largest and most scientifically affluent nations in Apolyton.

Marijuania is an altruistic libertarian nation, and this is reflected in the altruistic nature of the Challenger class ships mission. To aid this, we have installed state-of-the-art medical facilities on each Challenger vessel. These medical bays are closely intregrated with the computer systems and scientific labs, so modelling and experiments are easily performed.

A ship would not be of much significance unless it could move. This is a need certainly catered for by MIST. Each Challenger class vessel has three methods of power generation. The primary is a Matter/Anti-Matter reactor. This generates the best balance between stability and power, and as such, is used primarily to power the engines. Quantum Singularity drives (articifical black holes, magnetically stored and used to generate energy via the Hawking effect) also exist to serve as a backup, but also to power the various MAMPhuCkeR based facilities throughout the ship. Nuclear Fusion reactors are also availble to power the needs of the ship, to provide a power boost to other systems, and if necessary to give a short burst of Transdimensional movement.

The engines themselves are non existent in the tranditional sense. To travel at transdimensional superlumial speeds, one needs to change the physical properties and constants of the region occupied by the ship herself. To do this, 78% of this ships surface is covered by a multi purpose layed defence and engine skin or "MuPLDES". These utilise the energy generated by the power systems to change the physical parameters of the vessel, and direct it in transdimensional flight. Thrusters and Heavy Lepton Drives also exist for slower than light (STL) speeds, the latter capable of maneuverering the ship at nearly 100'000 Km/h, though this requires some time for acceleration.

Regrettably, an important part of the ship is its defensive and offensive capabilities. In the great unknown of space, one simply doesnt know what one may face, so in the respect, we in Marijuania have decided to prepare our ships for the worst. We have taken measures that run contrary to the nation itself, and we have armed the ships and their crew, to the proverbial teeth.

The primary weapons system of each vessel are the torpedoes. These are containers of matter and antimatter, although they can be modified to include conventional chemical explosives and nuclear weapons. They also have small transdimensional engines, that can power the torps from snails pace up to 3x the speed of light, or that plus the velocity of the firing ship, with no relativistic effects.

The yield of each torpedo is determined through Einsteins famous equation E=MC^2. A standard ship to ship torpedo has a yield capable of effectively vapourising Marjuania. The highest possible yield, used for base destruction, planetary destruction and stellar damage, is an enormous torpodo aided by transdimensional reactors, with enough explosive power to destory a small planet (up to the size of mercury), and a few hits could break up a larger planet (up to the size of earth). Smaller yields can be used against unshielded space-vessels, atmospheric targets, ground targets and specific damage to areas on a vessels hull. They can also be adapted to carry agents to release into a planet or ships water or air supply, for example, antedotes to an epidemic, discovered and manufactured in the ships medical and scientific resources.

Torpedo shells are also adapted to launch sensory probes, that can go where it is too dangerous to risk a ship, or where sensors are needed at more than one place at one time.

It is interesting to note that no torpedos or explosives are kept on any ship at any time, thus reducing the risk of an accident. Using MAMPhuCkeR technology, they are instead manufactured by the launcher at any any time they are needed. A reserve can of course be built up.

Direct, light speed energy weapons are also available to any Challenger class vessel. Primarily these consist of subatomic disruptors, used to violate energy shields, break down matter either for tactical purposes or for the use of MAMPhuCkeR. Compared to the torpedoes, they are relatively low yield, yet still capable of packing a huge punch by the standards of today. The power of each disrupter varies from that of a shotgun, to a small tactical nuclear warhead (the case of the latter would burn out the weapon after a short period. Such high discharge levels are not recommended, these weapons are a bugger to replace).

When linked with the highly advanced scientific sensors, they are capable of tracking tiny areas on the ground. If for some reason, they need to deal with a land army, they can pinpoint an individual and vapourise that person, with no excess heat, and no damage to the surroundings. In space, they represent the most accurate and commonplace weapon available to the Challenger class, and as such, they can often form the backbone of any defence, shooting down enemy space-fighters and torpodoes.

These weapons are integrated with the MuPLDES and as such are located all over the ship. They have a variable firing arc, and as a result, there is no areas of the ship left uncovered by at least one weapon, down to a distance of a mere 14.3 metres from the hull.

The heaviest weapon available to the Challenger class starship is the Photon Cannon. Due to the sheer destructive power of this device, most of the details regarding its operation are classified, and because they are not essential to the operation of a spacegoing vessel, we are not obligated to provide them to the Apolyton Space Programme. What is known is that this technology is independent from MAMPhuCkeR, only its production was aided by that technology. The idea behind this weapon was being explorered long before MAMPhuCkeR.

Each Challenger class ship possesses two of these fearsome weapons, and some small auxiliary shuttlecraft attached to each Challenger can be outfitted with a small version of this weapon. Its yield is classified, but it can be assumed to be greater than that offered by the torpedoes. Integrated with the scientific capacity of these ships, it surely helps to make these vessels formiddible in combat, should such an undesireably situation occur.

Each vessel also has a number of purely defensive systems. That consists of the energy shield and the MuPLDES. The former is a simple one-way 5-dimensional energy forcefield generated by the particle repellor. It can block out energy discharges, torpedoes and matter/anti matter impacts. Its tolerance is unknown, but we can assume it be capable of taking a lot of punishment. It is known to have been tested by a Challenger against a Challenger in wargames.

The MuPLDES, apart from the subatomic disruptor described earlier, also consists of a thick layer of ablative armour, designed to vapourise thus carrying away the energy of an energy or explosive weapon. The cloud of vapour created, is magnetically attracted to common forms of energy weapons (namely lasers), and can further disrupt the beam.

Needless to say, the hull and bulkheads of the entire ship and very thick and give the ship fantastic endurance in battle, even when its defensive systems are disabled.

The final major role of these vessels is transportation. The vessel has three docking ports, one on the upper arc, and two on the engineering section. These simply enable other vessels to dock.

The ship is also equipped with MAMPhuCkeR-based transporter devices. The BMUS (Beam Me Up Scotty) model, now in standard use, is capable of turning people and cargo into energy, and beaming them anywhere on the ship, or in the surrounding vicinity. The range of these devices is a mere 20'000 Km, meaning they are only suitable for short range use. This distance is shorter than that of geostationary orbits, so these devices are best for ship-to-ship or emergency transfers.

The mainstay of the transporation system of Challenger class vessels, are the shuttles. Two classes are availble, the first being the Prometheus class, the second being the Aquarius class.

The latter is a transportation shuttle, with a large section of the back suitable for any type of goods. Medical facilities are also available on some refits, of which each vessel has two, and the ability to create more. Each Aquarius shuttle is heavily shielded, but unarmed. Modified versions can carry armaments. All shuttles are capable of atmospheric and underwater flight and landings.

The Prometheus class shuttle is really an attack/defense fighter. Fast, small, agile, heavily shielded and very well armed, they are ideal for defending the mothership, or for escorting other vessels. They are typically computer controlled, but human-flyable variants are available to each ship. The weapons consist of subatomic disruptors in the MuPLDES, one-forward and one rear-firing torpedo launcher, and one forward-firing small version of the photonic cannon. They also carry a unique hybrid of all three weapons, four pulse cannons. Details are unclear about this, but it is known to be a rapid-firing weapon, capable of firing a ball-like pulse of energy towards a pre-set target, that the pulse will follow magnetically. The yield and mechanism of this weapon is still classified, as is the information as to whether it is provided on the hull of the Challengers.

Each Prometheus class shuttle is powered by a singularity reactor and is capable of 3000 X light speed for 12 hours.

The operational guidelines for these 200 ships are very clear. They are independent of the Marijuanian government, and thus do not form part of any army. Marijuania itself has no military of any kind. The people, culturally, would rise up to defend this nation against attackers, but that is neither encouraged nor welcomed by the government, who wish to see no civilian deaths. The ships themselves are under the juristiction of the independent and private MIST (Marijuanian Institute of Science and Technology), and in the field, all actions are down to the captain, who will follow out the orders of his superiors.

In the event of an agressor attacking Marijuania, that nation can request the military assistance of the MIN (Marijuanian Interstellar Navy), but they are in no way obligated to provide it. Legally, it is similar to a nation asking another to come to its aid. Should the ships decide to come to the aid of Marijuania, which of course they are culturally inclined to (but not officially or obligatory), then any attacking army facing this technology would face a very difficult struggle.

Marijuania itself has no army, and the ships are under a mandate never to attack, and only defend when necessary, according to the Mill Limit. Despite the military might of these vessels, Marijuania aims to be the most pacifist nation in Apolyton.*

[Whaleboy]

Marijuania has asked MIST and the MIN to assign five vessels to the Apolyton Space Programme, and the former have concurred. We await the agreement of the ASP. The MAMPhuCkeR and MuPLDES technology is being made available as of now to the ASP, on the condition that it is not developed further outside of the ASP or Marijuania, until we deem fit. We do not want this technology falling into the hands of people or nations who are as yet, unprepared for the implications of this technology, and by doing this, we are acting in the best interests of all nations involved. This technology has been released at this time because we believe the ASP to be ready for this technology, as an entity in its own right, though no other constituent nation is ready. Marijuania hereby pledges all the help we can offer, sociologically, psychologically, philosophically, intellectually, and to an extent, scientifically, in helping other nations deal with the implications, costs and benefits of MAMPhuCkeR.

Having said that, we have again agreed with MIST and the MIN that they should assign a contingent of two ships to every nation in Apolyton, increasing to five ships to members of the pacifist alliance, a body we intend to join. Assuming that other nations agree to this, we will allow a contingent of representatives from that nation to become part of the crew, to liase between the MIN and that nation. We do this in the hope of better diplomatic relations with all. By distributing the ships in this manner, we hope to unify the region under the banner of scientific discovery, as we aid the Apolyton Space Programme take its tentative steps into the magnificent desolation of the universe!

The following is a key to the attached blueprint of the MSS Columbia, a Challenger class vessel.

(1) Main Bridge
(2) Engineering
(3) Matter/Anti Matter reactor, Main singularity drive
(4) Main shuttle and cargo bay (Aquarius class shuttles: 10, Prometheus class shuttles: 60, escape boats [throughout ship]: 200 [seats 6])(5) Triage and Brig
(6) MAMPhuCkeR Transporter Centre and sensory analysis/scanning/tracking/communications/astrometrics labs (below)(7) Singularity drive (x3)(8) Particle Repellor
(9) Crew and guest quarters
(10) Primary Photon Cannon
(11) Main computer core room, and computer science/cybernetics/nanotech labs
(12) Secondary Shuttle Bay (Prometheus Class shuttles and escape boats only)
(13) Main science labs (below) and observation/recreation deck (above)
(14) Medical Bay and Medical labs
(15) Secondary (backup) computer core. Each key area has its own server, and is capable of total redundancy at the cost of efficiency, should the system go down (which it wont, its running a heavily modified version of linux ;-)
(16) More labs. Each is configureable with various purposes. Practically every major scientific field is catered for.
(17) Mid-forward torpedo launcher (x2, 1x port, 1x starboard)
(18) Upper-forward torpedo launcher (x2, 1x port, 1x starboard)
(19) Upper torpedo and Sub Atomic Disruptor (SAD) turret
(20) Upper-rear torpedo launcher (x2 1x port, 1x starboard)
(21) Lower-rear torpedo launcher (x3 in a cluster)
(22) Lower torpedo and SAD turret
(23) Secondary Photon Cannon
(24) Lower-forward torpedo launcher) (x2 1x port, 1x starboard)
(25) MuPLDES hull skin. Covers most of the ship
(26) Mid torpedo and SAD turret
(27) Fusion drive
(28) Small arms locker (many of these throughout the ship, for use in case of boardings or the need to land troops. This one near the bridge is the largest(29) "Crackerjack" system. In the event of severe damage to the upper hull, the ship would eject the damaged sections, then the captains yaught, escorted by heavily armed Prometheus shuttles would escape, catching the enemy off guard and leaving. This system, as well as other shuttles acts as part of the evacuation system for the ship.

[Whaleboy]

Who says I'm incapable of doing RP?

[Drogue]

Nobody has. I will read this later. You know my feelings about ubertech and massively over advanced nations. Like the NS rules state, it is generally considered a Things like photon cannons, sub-atomic disruptors, and simply the fact that one of thsoe would cost so much. I mean, the US has nothing near that, and even their space shuttles, that are much much smaller, have much less weaponry etc. cost billions, and thus they have only 6. You claim to have 200 of these. That surely would cost many many trillions. I mean so much that non of our nations would have that much, even if it didn't have any education, healthcare, defence at all.

The question I would ask people, is is this possible in RL? If you say yes, then it is not ubertech, if you say no, then I feel it is. IMHO, this is ubertech, as even the designs look to be taken from Star Trek, which is 500 odd years in the future. Too far IMHO.

Nice RPing though

[Whaleboy]

lmao, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to see the similarities to star trek! However, I have negated to include the dorsal/ventral views of the ship, but when I show them, you will see how dissimilar the vessel is from star trek vessels.

Read what I wrote about MAMPhuCkeR, R&D costs, production costs et al are largely irrelevant. All one needs is raw matter and energy, the computers do the rest. Producing 200 Challenger class vessels costs less than to built 50 ocean-going ferries.

It is not Ubertech, the vessels have weaknesses, many have been destroyed and replaced in testing. They may be tactically superior to anything we have now, but they are not invulnerable to anything we have now. From what I have read about the Akirian army, you do have the capability to breach the shields of a Challenger with a sustained assult. Hope you dont though, the peace thing!

Nothing presented is beyond reasonable doubt. The technology we have today, in secret areas like area 51, is ambiguous. This is a fantasy game, it does not have to be truly representative of RL, look at the Akirian army, we dont have anything like that (that we know of) today. Speaking as someone who follows developments in theoretical physics, it is physically possible, and I was careful when designing the ship to make sure that every piece of tech and every concept was within the world of present physical theories (albeit far fetched for some of them), but I would expect the same from any other nation.

In this respect, everything here is possible in RL, albeit improbable, but then, this is a fantasy RPG, FAIAP, and this kind of technology is not a huge leap of the imagination away.

If I claimed to have 432632874632846326432 ships, each capable of destroying a galaxy, then yes that would be taking the mick, but the capabilities of these ships while they may appear extreme, are all backed up by physics.

[Whaleboy]

... also consider that were it not for areas affected by MAMPhuCkeR technology, then the rest of the ship would be on about the same level as the rest of Marijuanian or Akirian technology (assuming yours is similar to mine). The real issues is MAMPhuCkeR, and it is a small device. Dont be fooled by the size and power of the ships, MAMPhuCkeR is the cause, and if you going to talk about ubertech, talk about MAMPhuCkeR. Also note that this technology is already in research in RL, and is, theoretically at least, sound.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by elijah
It is not Ubertech, the vessels have weaknesses, many have been destroyed and replaced in testing. They may be tactically superior to anything we have now, but they are not invulnerable to anything we have now.

It doesn't have to be invulnerable to be ubertech. As you said, it is far more advanced than anything anyone else has. That is ubertech IMHO. Look at the page I sent to you, written by kitsylvania (sp?) and the NS FAQ on god-modding.

Originally posted by elijah
From what I have read about the Akirian army, you do have the capability to breach the shields of a Challenger with a sustained assult.

Yes, but my military spending is enormous. The point I made yesterday, a nation with less education (according to the UN) less R&D spending (according to you) that is younger and with a much smaller population and military, be able to create that. I think it is ubertech, and is a textbook example for that given on NS as ubertech.

Originally posted by elijah
look at the Akirian army, we dont have anything like that (that we know of) today.

Actually, if you see a nation the size of China with the US military budget, it is pretty much Akiria. According to the UN I have the 2nd largest military per capita in the region, which looking at nations, is US like. I have the same spending per capita as the US on military, but with 5 times the population, and thus 5 times the army. If the US was the size of Akiria, with current spending plans, it would have a military the size of Akiria (actually bigger, since Akiria's army is R&D as opposed to person orientated, in size, it is only 3 times the US size).

Originally posted by elijah
Speaking as someone who follows developments in theoretical physics, it is physically possible, and I was careful when designing the ship to make sure that every piece of tech and every concept was within the world of present physical theories (albeit far fetched for some of them), but I would expect the same from any other nation.

Then how come no nation on Earth has used replicator technology? If it is possible? I think if it was possible, someone would have done it.

Originally posted by elijah
In this respect, everything here is possible in RL, albeit improbable, but then, this is a fantasy RPG, FAIAP, and this kind of technology is not a huge leap of the imagination away.

But not possible at the moment. there is no RL precident for this.

Originally posted by elijah
If I claimed to have 432632874632846326432 ships, each capable of destroying a galaxy, then yes that would be taking the mick, but the capabilities of these ships while they may appear extreme, are all backed up by physics.

Well, maybe backed up by theoretical physics, but that is like letting renaissance Italy have a fleet of planes, just because Da Vinci showed it was possible to fly. It took another 500 years to get military planes. It was theoretically possible in the 1500s, but was not practically possible, and thus did not happen.

[Drogue]

If you can do that, then every nation with spending as high as yours could say they have a massive, ubertech army. This would cause havok, and be comopletely unrealistic. If everyone stated that they have ships like that, our region would be a) far more powerful than all other regions together, and b) a laughing stock, as people just wouldn't accept that kind of ubertech.

That is why I don't accept it. RP must be based not just on what is and is not possible, but on what has been done, what others have done, what your nation is like, etc. to make it even and realistic.

[Whaleboy]

" Then how come no nation on Earth has used replicator technology?"

Because Earth is complacent. Marijuania eliminated much complacency in its population a long time ago, if we can, could and should develop it, then we would. This does not happen in other societies.

If it were not for our pacifist, idealistic nature, we could have had this tech ages ago. In Marijuania, Da Vinci flew!

" ry spending is enormous. The point I made yesterday, a nation with less education (according to the UN) less R&D spending (according to you) that is younger and with a much smaller population and military, be able to create that. I think it is ubertech, and is a textbook example for that given on NS as ubertech"

This may be a help for you developing this tech before me, but does not mean for certain that you will. Read my post. One guy working on a theory, one Uni, one stroke of luck and we change the world! Its no unrealistic, look at Einstein. He wrote 6 papers including special relativity, and each spawned a new scientific field (dont ask me to remember them all ).

"it is far more advanced that anything anyone else has"

Perhaps, but that is not my fault. We intend to bring everyone up to this level in due course (but privately, please allow me to explain my RP plans before you rush to a knee-jerk judgement). The ships have developed from a simple advance which was in turn created from existing technology. I am not making quantum leaps here (excuse the pun).

"but not possible at the moment"

Au contrare, thats my point. It is very much possible as I said. It is the complacency on Earth that holds such developments back, but a theme of my nation is the elimination of complacency, alongside the implimentation of the Mill Limit.

As I said in my post, the Mill Limit is a futuristic society that could not work with 20th/21st century populations. Does that make me some kind of Ubersociety and thus illegitimate on Apolyton? I think not! If this society creates technology, then it is ludicrous to suppress that simply because other nations insist on sticking to 20th/21st century technology.

With regards to your complain that your arms and R&D budget has failed to create this, while a mere underdog has, consider the question of cryptography. I can create an algorithm that will take my computer 10'000 years to crack, with a 100% probability.

It is entirely possible that I can crack that code with one iteration, the same probability as the trillions of other iterations involved.

Just because you have a more powerful computer doesnt necessarily mean that you will crack the code faster in one instance, only on average. But Marijuania is one society, Akiria is one society.

Nothing I have is physically impossible within the 20th/21st century context, and with the elimination of complacency, it is probably not suprising that I can develop this stuff faster, despite a lesser R&D budget.

The only thing that might be pushing it on my ships is the Photonic cannons, but I been working on those for ages and the theory that I havent published is all sound.

"that is like letting renaissance italy have a fleet of planes just because Da Vinci showed it was possible to fly"

Indeed it is. The only reason Italy didnt was because of complacency. If they had seen the potential of some of his ideas, and devoted even a modest amount of resources, then the Mayflower may have looked more like a 747!

We took the idea of a man, worked it with modest resources as we saw the potential, just as flight had potential in the middle ages, and took full advantage of this tech, because we are NOT complacent. If you need huge R&D budgets to compensate for complacency, well, you would probably be better off devoting all of that money to education, and for the elimination of complacency in your society, just as you have largely eliminated violence (safest nation report).

I doubt very much that we would be having this conversation if I had RP'd simply MAMPhuCkeR instead of this ships. Yet the ships were a direct consequence of MAMPhuCker. However, I intend to share MAMPhuCkeR tech with the entire region, as soon as I deem each individual nation capable of using this tech without destroying themselves.

Whilst on that point, I would like to announce that Akiria is ready for this technology, and thus we are freeing up the secrets of MAMPhuCkeR to Akiria, providing both nations sign a non-aggression pact (all those robots are scaring me ).

As such, you need not feel left out or threatened, you will still be able to maintain your position as most powerful nation in this region, I wont be in a position to help you. The weaponry of course will remain the intellectual property of Marijuania, but if you dont know my extreme pacifism by now, you never will.

Lets also remember that this is a fantasy game! We are not wholly tied to 20th/21st century technology. Look at Akiria's army! No RL nation has that today. Artificial intelligence to this extent represents a simliar technological development to MAMPhuCker, except the latter is able to extend itself into other areas. Its a game, lighten up!

But like I said earlier, cut me some slack on this one, you wont regret it .

Oh, and by the way, there is RL precidents for all of this, albeit in the labs. MAM replication technology have successfully transported and resequenced matter, in a simple fashion but the idiots havent grasped the idea of SEQUENCED MAGNETIC CONTAINMENT!!! its so simple, an 18 year old British student could figure it out!!

[Giovanni Wine]

Hey elijah, did you notice what century this is? it's the 21st century, and it is just the start of it... I mean... your space program seems a bit too much advanced, in my very humble opinion.

Surely something like that would be very hard to achieve with an imploded economy.

I must agree with Drogue, this is ubertech technology, it is a very nice RP indeed, but frankly you are giving your nation to much credits, don't forget that your nation has an imploded economy, mostly devoted to Welfare, Education and Enviroment. And by that description you don't have much access to Information Technologies Industries (you have the lemonade thingy).

Oh and BTW, I highly doubt that Italy (which at the time we were just a bunch of city-states) even if had they seen the potentials of Leonardo's invetions, could afford many resource to be placed in it.

"the Mill Limit is a futuristic society that could not work with 20th/21st century populations. Does that make me some kind of Ubersociety and thus illegitimate on Apolyton"

No society, no matter how advanced it is, can ever be perfect, it could be near it, but not perfect, it will never happen.

"If this society creates technology, then it is ludicrous to suppress that simply because other nations insist on sticking to 20th/21st century technology."

As I said you society might be better, but not perfect, after all they are always 20/21st centuries people, with a futuristic social system, not a futuristic society. Therefore your technology could be better, but not that much better, and even so, you would still have the problem on where to find the funds for such a big space program.

Saluti

[Jack_www]

elijah this is what we like to call God Moding. Or ubertech for others. We are playing based on 20/21 century tech, not future tech of space travel. Yes maybe with the next 70 to 100 years we may start using anti matter as a power source for space craft, but from what I heard they would only be space probes, and would most likely only travel half the speed of light.

Please do the same tech as the rest of us, or just deal with other nations that have the same tech level. On nation states there are some nations that are space faring nations with ships going around the galaxy, but these are very very few and they stick to themselves.

If you conitnue with this then Jackson will be forced to ignore your nation.

[Urban Ranger]

Interesting bit of pseudoscience glooberdeglooob for sure. However, seeing that you learned most of your physics from Star Trek, elijah, I will let it slide instead of making a great big mess out of it this time. For example,

This small experimental device, created out of the enormous freedoms the Marijuanian education and social system provides, enables one to take a quantity of matter, initially deuterium variant hydrogen, but now anything up to iron, and bombard it with anti-leptons. This reduces the matter into top-quarks, which can be stored magnetically.

Bombard matter with anti-leptons does not reduce it to top quarks. It merely will cause small explosions when anti-lepton-lepton pairwise annihilations occur. I will not point out the difficulty in creating anti-leptons in particle accelerators and the greater difficulty in storing them in any quantity. I will also not point out the amount of energy required to reduce matter into quarks.

Now, please limit yourself to 21st century science and technology, maybe a bit ahead of current status, even by 20 years or so.

[Drogue]

UR: While I think this is ubertech (which is part of Godmodding Jack) elijah has shown that it *could* be possible in our society, theoretically. It may take enormous reserves of energy, but that doesn't make it impossible, merely very improbably. And he didn't learn physics from sci-fi, I can attest that he is a good (if idealistic) physicist, having already done part degree course work, when still 16.

While I agree that he shouldn't use that tech, he has made a point, if it is possible in 21st Century Earth, is it allowed? I disagree with Marijuania, because I don't think it's possible inhis nation, or in any of ours, and mroe importantly, if we don't all have the same tech level, it creates biased RP. Thus I have to agree, carry on with the RP, but reduce the size and number of ships, remove most of the weaponry, and reduce the speed. Akiria has advanced spacecraft for this day and age, since we were in space a long time ago (before Xmas) and we would be happy to share technology. However we have 10, which are ever so slightly more advanced than current day US ones, due to our higher R&D spending. All our space R&D research will be shared with any ASS nations.

[Whaleboy]

Due to safety and operational concerns, the Marijuanian Institute of Science and Technology have been forced to redesign the Challenger-class vessel.

Due to some unforseen problems with the ...anti-matter reactors, the technology behind which is in existence today, we have been forced to reduce the maximum superlumial velocity of these ships to 400 km/s, or just over 1.3X the speed of light. We are looking to safely increase this speed.

The output of the MAMPhuCker has also been revised, and is now only capable of producing material, up to the complexity of a computer. Multi-cellular life forms are now out of the question due to.... radiation.

We have also been forced to de-install and destroy the Photon Cannons, and all the research surrounding it has been encrypted, so that with the current exponential growth in computer tech, the average cracking time is 150 years. This has been done on the grounds that it may make the ships appear to others as warships, precipitating a conflict that we would not wish occur.

The other armaments, defensive, sensory, scientific and computer tech remains the same.

It would also appear that a rather embarrasing error at the Marijuanian Beancounters Society (typical me, blame it on the accountants), has caused us to provide erroneously overrated figures for the number of starships. 200 vessels was way out, the actual figure is 5, produced mainly, thanks to the MAMPhuCker, at a relatively low cost to the Marijuanian Institute of Science and Technology, a PRIVATE organisation

"It merely will cause small explosions when anti-lepton-lepton pairwise annihilations occur"

Not if they are kept separate, which the magnetic sequencing system does (the gluons are arranged in a pre-ordained fashion... and no, I dont know how this would be done, otherwise I would not be posting this, instead rolling in my million$ with many naked bisexual redheads.)

"Bombard matter with anti-leptons does not reduce it to top quarks"

shhhhh!! I wont tell if you dont!!!! It sounded better than photons.

ALRIGHT!!!! It "could" be interpreted as Ubertech, so I have drastically reduced the capabilities and numbers of these vessels as has been seen. Due to the "accounting errors", I have to withdraw my offEr of two and five starships to all and pacifist alliance apolyton nations. Instead, two ships will be assigned to the Apolyton Space Programme, and the Apolyton Space Station. All technology disclosure agreements stand.

Satisfied??? jk

"nd BTW, I highly doubt that Italy (which at the time we were just a bunch of city-states) even if had they seen the potentials of Leonardo's invetions, could afford many resource to be placed in it"

IIRC*, much of Italy at that time was dominated by a group of stupendously rich merceneries, the one who took Da Vinci in (I'll be damned if I can remember his name), could easily have afforded a demo aircraft, and perhaps a small number of them.

*No I wasnt there :| Dont anyone start accusing me of senility! jk

You should also consider that the NS rankings on the economy are rather, shall we say, vague. In the normal state of my nation (economy is in recession ATM), I could have spectacularly good IT, science and weed industries, but everything else be lame.

[Drogue]

It could, but if it did, it would say "has a sector". It says you have lemonade by the sidewalk IIRC

Looks good, the

just over 1.3X the speed of light

Might still be a little far, as folding space is quite a bit ahead of us ATM, but reduce that to 0.8 or 0.9 (still unrealistic, but possible with current tech) and I would let it slide. I'm also a little apprehensive over "MAMPhuCker", and defensive forcefields. But hey, I'll leave it up to the others to read that and decide, I skimed it, and really don't have the inclination to read it thoroughly

[Whaleboy]

Ah take it or leave it! Besides dont you have defenseless, innocent nations to be violating... like ME?

Peace

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by elijah
Due to some unforseen problems with the ...anti-matter reactors, the technology behind which is in existence today, we have been forced to reduce the maximum superlumial velocity of these ships to 400 km/s, or just over 1.3X the speed of light.

Speed of light is 300,000 km/s

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drogue
UR: While I think this is ubertech (which is part of Godmodding Jack) elijah has shown that it *could* be possible in our society, theoretically. It may take enormous reserves of energy, but that doesn't make it impossible, merely very improbably.

Theoretically, bombarding matter with anti-leption will not reduce it into top quarks. Matters are supposed to be composed of leptons and quarks. Leptons are particles such as electrons and neutrinos. Quarks make up particles such as protons and neutrons. If you fire a position (a type of anti-lepton) at a blob of matter, it'd just go going until it hits an electron, then causes a small explosion in pairwise annihilation.

Originally posted by Drogue
And he didn't learn physics from sci-fi, I can attest that he is a good (if idealistic) physicist, having already done part degree course work, when still 16.

Hm, that makes it even worse.

[Urban Ranger]

The main problem with Ubertech is once a player is allowed to have it, everybody else wants it. Hey, it's just make believe and off to an imaginary arms race we go.

[Drogue]

Exactly my point, much more eloquently put

Thanks

[Whaleboy]

Just below 3*10^8 m/s.

It was meant to be 400'000 Km/s sorry!! Having said that, 400km/s would be more realistic, so I'm thinking I'll adopt that figure.

" Theoretically, bombarding matter with anti-leption will not reduce it into top quarks. Matters are supposed to be composed of leptons and quarks. Leptons are particles such as electrons and neutrinos. Quarks make up particles such as protons and neutrons. If you fire a [positron] (a type of anti-lepton) at a blob of matter, it'd just go going until it hits an electron, then causes a small explosion in pairwise annihilation."

I do know that, but there was no way I could really say it using truly real physics. Are you one of those people who watch sci-fi programmes, writing down the technical errors to send off to the producers, and keep getting the same letter in return? jk, you're alright!.

I do know that they have achieved the results, both theoretically and experimentally, but I'm not too sure how (I have ideas but I'm probably wrong.... dont you just love tachyons... way to defeat heisenberg!). If I did know, then again, instead of writing this on my day off, I would be somewhere over the North Atlantic, taking a trip to New York to buy the NYT, because its too much of a hassle to walk down to the shops!

"The main problem with Ubertech is once a player is allowed to have it, everybody else wants it. Hey, it's just make believe and off to an imaginary arms race we go."

OK, I concede that (I'm not too experienced with RP), even on my third day of being active here, Drogue goes and declares war on me! (or at least the guy behind Drogue, all these alias's are too confusing).

I will redesign the ships to have something of a more contemporary feel. Still going to have some nice toys to play with, but advanced to a realistic level within my lifetime.

STOP THE WAR!!!