Hidden Nationality

CrONoS · May 7, 2003, 14:26

Hi!

Does someone try to create a unit with the Hidden Nationality flag ON?(ground unit)

If yes, how the A.I. Players use this units? Do he's use properly the units with no nationality?(or he just use this unit like any other units).

If I create a units with hidden nationality, do you think the Guerrilla can be a good units?
6/6/1 90 Shields...maybe I can rise the shields to 100??? (A tank 16/8/2 cost 100 shields!)

What do you think about that?

Nice day!

Purple · May 7, 2003, 14:33

I can't answer specifically, but you might inspect the properties of the Privateer unit, which has this quality.

Also, posting this question in the Creation forum might get you a better response.

Panag · May 7, 2003, 14:36

Quote:

Originally posted by cronos_qc
Hi!

Does someone try to create a unit with the Hidden Nationality flag ON?
If yes, how the A.I. Players use this units? If the A.i. use well this new units?

I was thinking about that and remember Civ2 and the units with no nationality.

If I create a units with hidden nationality, do you think the Guerrilla can be a good units?
6/6/1 90 Shields...maybe I can rise the shields to 100??? (A tank 16/8/2 cost 100 shields!)

What do you think about that?

Nice day!

hi ,

go to the editor , units , bottom left , unit specs , look for "hidden nationality" , flag it , thats all

have a nice day

CrONoS · May 7, 2003, 15:00

panag: tanx, but I know how to do that! I just wanna know if the A.I. use well the hidden nationality? If he know how to use it properly?

Thanks!

purple: yeah I better go in the creation thread!

trevor · May 7, 2003, 18:29

Yes, yes they do. I had made a bandit unit for a mod, and the AI used it to conduct a undeclared war in my country.

Louis XXIV · May 7, 2003, 23:16

I've heard that the AI use it great

They even raise cities so you don't know who were the attackers

The problem, Humans can capture the city and the AI doesn't know what happened

pedrojedi · May 7, 2003, 23:55

Hey, that sounds fun!

CrONoS · May 8, 2003, 01:08

Louis XXIV:

hahahha, that was my question. What happend when you capture a city with your "hidden nationality" unit!!! I will conduct some test in one of my game!

Thanks!

Willem · May 8, 2003, 08:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Louis XXIV

The problem, Humans can capture the city and the AI doesn't know what happened

That's not entirely true, capturing a city with one will have a serious effect on your diplomatic relations with that civ. That would probably take it from Polite right to Furious. The AI knows the unit belongs to you, it just can't do anything about it.

Willem · May 8, 2003, 08:30

Quote:

Originally posted by cronos_qc
panag: tanx, but I know how to do that! I just wanna know if the A.I. use well the hidden nationality? If he know how to use it properly?

Thanks!

purple: yeah I better go in the creation thread!

Although the AI does use them fairly well, it's not as good at them as the human player. But then the same is true with bombardment.

There's also an eye for an eye attitude with them, the more you use them, the more it will produce. Be sure to protect your Workers and Settlers that are near the border, they're a prime target for the AI's hidden nationality units.

Tattila the Hun · May 8, 2003, 10:19

Despite the hidden nationality, ROP agreements affect these units too, as demonstrated by the "secret agent" in double your pleasure. Very good for worker-napping...

Panag · May 9, 2003, 04:12

Quote:

Originally posted by cronos_qc
panag: tanx, but I know how to do that! I just wanna know if the A.I. use well the hidden nationality? If he know how to use it properly?

Thanks!

purple: yeah I better go in the creation thread!

hi ,

yes they do

its great to give a defense and attack of 1 or even 2 to an explorer , reduce its movement and start a scen to see what happens , ....

have a nice day

problem_child · May 9, 2003, 09:31

Geurilla

7.7.3 (ignores mountains, hills, forests and jungles), cost 10 to build, but cannot take cities or capture workers (they merely kill them)

problem_child · May 9, 2003, 10:05

I've also noticed the AI is quite good at employing hidden nationality Geurillas, engaging in secret wars like it gets the idea.

Louis XXIV · May 9, 2003, 11:03

Quote:

Originally posted by problem_child
Geurilla
but cannot take cities or capture workers (they merely kill them)

How do you manage to make that?

CrONoS · May 9, 2003, 13:45

Louis XXIV:

You just have to Unflag the capture option in the civ3 : ptw editor!

Willem · May 9, 2003, 13:57

If you do that though, the Offence/Defence flags for AI strategy become greyed out. How does the AI respond to that?

Panag · May 9, 2003, 14:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
If you do that though, the Offence/Defence flags for AI strategy become greyed out. How does the AI respond to that?

hi ,

well sometimes they AI goes bananas on it , .....

not a good thing , .....

just see how the AI uses a unit with the defense flag , .....

then yet again , the AI sometimes attacks with defensive units , ......

have a nice day

Louis XXIV · May 9, 2003, 15:52

:Cool:

I miss a lot of things with editors (nice to know)

CrONoS · May 10, 2003, 04:50

... i was doing some test this after noon, with the capture option unflag, and the a.i. dont seem to use the new units... because the offensive/defense ai strategies are greyed out... the ai do not see any utility to this new unit.

... so i will put the capture flag "on" an set the unit to 1/6/1(+ all terrain like road). And see how the a.i. will use the new units. I want to create a unit who pillage, like "saboters" with hidden nationality.

I'll check tomorrow if the A.i. use well the new units.

See ya everyone!

Louis XXIV · May 10, 2003, 09:35

You should try making a unit (maybe call it a spy) with invisability, hidden nationality, and treats all terrain as roads.

Make its stats 0.0.2 and upgrade from explorer

bobbo008 · May 10, 2003, 21:55

wouldnt the spy need some sort of chance of being caught? also, what happens if youre in their territory and one of their units tries to go on the square your spy is on? took me a while to realize when moving ships in the ocean that when i tried to move to certain squares and it said it would cause war with whoever, that they had a submarine there.

i've been wondering about using guerillas for a while. maybe, going maybe too far here, but having hidden nationality units be more privateerish. you know, lets say you actually pay units to attack, but you arent controlling them. they could be like barbarians or you could do the same with barbarians too

Louis XXIV · May 10, 2003, 21:59

Ooh

Almost forgot

You have to give Spies "radar" ability (sort of a counter-espionage)

BTW, with a 6 move, you have to make sure they won't get caught, as they aren't loyal and will defect

bobbo008 · May 11, 2003, 14:07

radar wouldnt work, i do not think. later in the game, when the whole civ is covered with railroad, you could check your entire civ over every turn, and that would get quite annoying...

Tacit_Exit · May 12, 2003, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Despite the hidden nationality, ROP agreements affect these units too . . .

Not in PTW 1.21f, I believe.

bobbo008 · May 12, 2003, 22:07

"Despite the hidden nationality, ROP agreements affect these units too . . . "

yeah, the latest patch (or whichever it was) doesnt affect hidden nationality units anymore, like tacit said.

problem_child · May 13, 2003, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by cronos_qc
... i was doing some test this after noon, with the capture option unflag, and the a.i. dont seem to use the new units... because the offensive/defense ai strategies are greyed out... the ai do not see any utility to this new unit.

... so i will put the capture flag "on" an set the unit to 1/6/1(+ all terrain like road). And see how the a.i. will use the new units. I want to create a unit who pillage, like "saboters" with hidden nationality.

I'll check tomorrow if the A.i. use well the new units.

See ya everyone!

What unit did you test on? In my scenario the AI builds the geurillas (even if it didn't it'd still have to upgrade its Longbowmen and Medeival Infantry) And Galleys have offense/defence grayed out, but the AI still uses Galleys to attack...

Anyway, the AI seems to recipricate the use of certain units (nukes and hidden nationality) so if you send geurillas to pillage and kill workers, the AI shuld do the same (I'm currently at the stage of the game where I'm just about to get geurillas myself, but have seen geurillas in the cities of more advanced nations...)

CrONoS · May 13, 2003, 09:54

I've take the Guerilla set to 1/6/1( + all terrain like road).

I've use them some time in the enemy territory, but I never see the A.I. use them. I will do some other test this week, and try differend combination.

See ya

problem_child · May 13, 2003, 11:59

ah, 7.7.3 is better in my opinion, they are militarily useful for hit n runs and softening-up targets, and sometimes even holding cities (or give you one more chance to hold that city...

Or use em to just stand there on a mountain in enemy territory, very useful for keeping workers from redeveloping territory, (so long as the nation in question is too bedraggled to send in troops and clear em out)

And they aren't too powerful (infantry can usually beat em) but not too weak (infantry can get slaughtered assaulting un-softened geurilla positions that are well dug into mountains or hills, especially if they are elite) I've even seen 7.7.3 Geurillas sucesfully resist modern armour, but only rarely, I think 7.7.3 is a really good representation of guerilla effectiveness. I made it so they can't take towns because I think of them as militias, armed paramilitaries and nationalist gunmen, they don't have the support, the administration or the co-ordination to take a city and occupy it, (hell the US and British armies found it difficult enough to hold cities in Iraq, so I wouldn't rate the chances of a bunch of Armed Factions full of dubious characters adorned with politicaly contraversial tattooings, terrorist leanings and gangster connections doin so, and they can't capture workers which is good. I kept having games were HN Geurillas could be used to steal huge numbers of workers from neibouring countries.... geurillas are not known for a habit of doing that.

I don't think there's any point of representing 'bandits' or something, only units of strong national significance... workers represent workforces consisting of thousands of people, either hordes of slaves or industrial projects employing thousands, military units tend to represent battalions or divisions, (even geurillas) so having bandits or something come and jump even a worker seems... silly to me (noffense)

Tacit_Exit · May 14, 2003, 00:45

Quote:

Originally posted by problem_child I made it so they can't take towns

How, pray tell, did you achieve this?