The Chiron Chronicle- Admin 2

[Clear Skies]

I think I was the player interested in the Gaians originally, but I kinda got scared off cos I couldn't interpret the map properly - got the colours the wrong way round or something.
Anyway, how could the PKs have a base of theirs nuked? According to the tech tree, the technology required for Planet Busters - and indeed any missile - is Orbital Spaceflight. That's a L6 technology, and as far as I'm aware we're only up to Tech level 4 - (my?) Cyborgs ouldn't even be there were it not for a bit of luck with an Alien Artifact.
Continuity error? Or literary licence?
[This message has been edited by SMAC Fanatic (edited March 05, 2001).]

[Blake]

Cyber, I'm *trying* to sail over to play wargames with you

SMAC Fanatic: Base was nuked not by a planetbuster but by a self destructing ship (anyone paying attention should notice SMAX units are powered by FISSION reactors), personally I think the damage was a bit too great, reactor meltdowns tend to irradiate not obliterate, but then again not knowing how seabases are constructed even a small nuclear explosion could be able to devestate one. Altough CC is a rpg based on SMAX, it is not restricted to what can be done in SMAX.

As for tech:
Several factions have:
D:AP E5 (Does morgan have D:AP? or just using air freightors?)
SFF E4
Superconducter C4
AMA C4 (eastern continent only, I think)

The Cult has
Ecological Engineering E4
Centuari Meditation E5

But the rest of there tech is very weak (ie best weapon laser, best armour synth, no advanced economics)

And the cyborgs have the coverted position of having Silksteel alloys B4, the only level4 build tech. So, E4 & E5 and C4 techs are in fairly wide circulation now, strangly most of the advanced tech would seem to have direct military applications.

And I havn't managed to download the map file yet, I'd appreciate it if someone could e-mail it to bmw40@student.canterbury.ac.nz
I've consutructed my own detailed Cult / close gaian/believer/spartan/pk map, so I'm not playing blind

I know, was wondering how one Civilian Cruiser type Fission Reactor and two whatecer kind of Spartan Reactors stored in the cargo old could cause a big kaboom. Anyway, thats why i only made it do less damage then a Fission Planetbuster, but enough to kill the base.

and after the self-destruct of the Spartan attack foil, i am starting to wonder on how the Spartans are building their fission reactors :P

As far as i know: Pirates, Peacekeepers, Spartans and soon the Cult, if they succeed in getting their mindworm army on the east continent.
Hive will be receiving Air Power from Braddock after they keep up their part of the bargain. Morgan haves Air Power, but doesn't have a much of an air force, mainly building bunch of Air Freighters.

And Blake, thats why i post all the coordinates of bases just incase my site doesn't work, and other problems.


-LordLMP

[Blake]

Nuclear explosions are easy to make! Smax ships would have to carry spare reaction mass, because they stay out at sea for decades. To make a big bang spike the reactor chamber with extra fissionable mass then pull out the control rods... in fact if the ships reactor was big enough just pulling out the control rods would cause it to go nova.

SMAX terms self destructing a ship with missile weapon would do about 20% damage to all units in nearby tiles. That's quite a blast, definetely nuclear. Self destructing units on land would have somewhat less effect, because hills are fairly good at blocking or deflecting the shockwave.

Thinking about it chiron must have rather abundant despoists of high grade uranium, every faction sticks a nuclear reactor in anything which moves

[Natan]

If I could get a good map of my territory, that would be nice. I don't really know which of my bases are where, and the main map doesn't work. Please help. Do I have any secret projects? What techs do I have? Do I have to make all of this stuff up?

Natan, if you want to talk about it, do so in the Chiron Discussions, not in the Game Thread please. I know what you mean and I agreed. But General Kane as already been created and has already started moving Stage 2. He is into honoring his agreement with Braddock. General Kane leads the Southern Hive Forces and he is one of the best generals Hive has, so he does have some Hive units loyal to him. I thought through it and it is your faction now, but you cannot simply change what is already been done and cannot comepletly change what you have done, especially when Cyber as already replied to it. General Kane is a honorable Soldier, and not into genocide, murder, much into slavery and so on. Anyway, thats a bit contradictive to Yang's ideals anyway. General Kane does have power in the Hive Faction, enough to challenge Yang's leadership, but doesn't pursue that because Kane not power hungry and is loyal to the Hive. But if Yang decides not to honor the agreement with Braddock and joins forces with the Spartans, backstabbing almost, than Kane would have a problem with that. He already sent units from his Southern Hive Forces, which are loyal to Kane, into Peacekeeper territory. The General of the Northern Hive Forces suppose to lead Stage 1. Reply to Kane's message to Yang, in your views of what should be done and forget previous plans. Kane will challenge Yang's decision of not honoring the deal made with Braddock. Yang's sends his Security Forces to apprehend General Kane for questioning and challenging the Chairman. Kane sees this, and leaves Hive territory with the rest of his Units loyal to Kane into PK territory. Which in total, only 1/3 of Southern Hive Forces are truely Loyal to General Kane. Kane will still honor the deal with Braddock while being disowned by Yang. Kane will still believe in the Hive ways, just not into the extremes as you suggest Hive would like to do. Then, the whole story will workout. I am into giving all factions a fair chance, and sub-faction groups is alowed. Oh, do realize that Hive only has a small navy at the moment.

So your Kane message sent to Braddock would be fake one. Braddock would of received the fake one and the real message from Kane via his secret comm links to Braddock. Braddock would wonder whats going on. With a chunk of southern hive units leaving Hive, Hive will not be able to attack the Peacekeepers right away via the Planetneck. Yet, Hive may decide to restart attacks on the Free Drones with the Northern Hive Units.

is this agreeable Natan? will happen anyway, can't go backwards and change things and no more OOC only messages in the Game thread.

-LordLMP

quote: Originally posted by Natan on 03-15-2001 06:30 PM If I could get a good map of my territory, that would be nice. I don't really know which of my bases are where, and the main map doesn't work. Please help. Do I have any secret projects? What techs do I have? Do I have to make all of this stuff up?

I will send you gif pic of the Hive territory when i get access to my home comp again this weekend. if you check the admin, i posted a list of bases and their coordinates of all factions. The Hive bases are already there.

The best weapon tech Hive has at the moment is Gatling Lasers and as for defence, Plasma steel. they don't have Advanced Military Algorynths, no AAA and so abilities. They don't have Doc: iniciative either yet. neither Industrial Automation. Hive are bit behind in tech. For the rest, you can make it up.

The Hive military is seperated in various districts of Hive territory. The Northern Hive Forces, Southern Hive Forces(before being disowned, commanded by General Kane), Western Hive Forces and their Central Hive Forces, and there is the Yang's Security Forces spread all over the Hive territory. And they have a small navy. The Hive military is mostly comprised of cheap units, meaning, Laser to Gatling Laser infantry units with no armor and Laser to Gatling Laser rovers with no armor. The Base Garrisons do have Armor and so is the Security Forces maybe. You can't easily mass produce Strong Units, they are expensive.

You do have to pretty much make things up for the Hive, as they were not worked upon much since there was no players playing them and they weren't involved much in the story, except in History like War for Unity Sea and the Hive War. I suggest you read all the Chiron Chronicles related threads in the last 6 or more months. Game started in August.

-LordLMP

[Christantine The Great]

Do we have a map?

yes we do, just my site suck. figures, geocities you know.

-LordLMP

[XWaste]

Ok - has the hive been taken now??- was waiting a bit because there didn't really seema spot for them without complicating the story too unnecessarily...would think chairman yang would be content to watch the eventuauting war (from what I had read so far was happening) and see what opportunities arose

guess not

[Cyber]

Xwaste, the Hive has been indeed taken. But there are atleast a dozen of other factions available including the Cult of War, a sub-faction in the Spartan Federation. So pick one and hop into the game!

[Guardian]

Peacekeeping Forces

The Peacekeepers are currently in the middle of a full-scale mobilization for the war against the Spartans. They are not really happy about this, but they're doing it, most of them believing that they have no choice. The earlier distinction between the "pro-peace" and "pro-war" Peacekeepers is now ignored for administrative purposes (except for their values...), but these two sub-groups still exist under the blue and white banner, mostly representing two different approaches to the task of defending the U.N. Charter. The "pro-peace" people generally want to believe that all people are "good at heart" and that things like war and hatred are usually caused by gross misunderstandings and "fear of the unknown". They feel that "if we could all understand each other, then we would all get along - or at least be able to live with each other", and so they have much faith in diplomacy, communication and free flow of information as the tools of choice and the solutions to most problems.

The "pro-war" Peacekeepers argue that this diplomatic approach is not fit to defend the principles of the U.N. Charter because some people are just plain mean and evil, and mere words will not stop them. Therefore, if justice is to be done, the U.N. must be ready and willing to back up words with military force whenever somebody won't listen to reason. One could say that their focus is not on being the Peacekeeping Forces, but on being the Peacekeeping Forces. Also, they argue that the U.N. should be Peacemakers as well as Peacekeepers, meaning that a full scale military intervention is acceptable if one or more of the parties in a conflict won't listen to reason. I.e. "go in there and kick ass until they've had enough and are ready to talk".

At the moment, it is the "pro-war" gang who seem to be getting their way, with the "pro-peace" followers mostly sitting back in resignation and saying, "Maybe they're right about the Spartans..."

The PK society is based on the idea that all people are free to pursue their own goals as long as they don't hurt each other. In other words; if it feels right for you and you won't be hurting anybody else by doing it, then it's okay! Others might think it's weird or they may not approve at all, but so what?! It's your life and your freedom, and as long as you're not causing problems for anybody, it's none of their business! In this society, the law exists to protect the righs of each and every individual, not to limit or control them. -Or at least that's how it's meant to be, but it might not always work that way...
Also, like in any democracy, it is not totally unheard of to sometimes sacrifice a few for the benefit of many, but "the few" will usually volunteer themselves and receive some sort of compensation.

Now, it might sound kind of like these people have very little respect for authority, but this is not entirely true. They will respect their own government, or indeed any government that has the support of its' people and generally seems fair and just. It's only when they feel authority is being abused that they will turn against it. Also, they respect other factions' right to build their own social structures, which may or may not be different, but only as long as nobody's human rights are being violated. That is, in their eyes, a social structure that will inhibit or restrain individual freedom is legitimate only if people choose it by their own free will, and those who do not want to be part of it are left alone or at the very least allowed to leave. (In other words; the governments of Hive and Sparta have no right to exist! -They use force to keep citizens in line...)

Anyway, their society is based on mutual trust and respect. Anyone who breaks this code will earn their contempt and can some times be dealt with kind of harshly without anybody really objecting much. Some people even argue that individuals should be considered to waive their own rights by violating someone else's. However, the authorities will usually try to "rehabilitate" those who "go astray" and return them to the happy family they think humanity ought to be...


Social engineering:
This is a Democracy with Green economics and Knowledge values.
The "Pro-war" Peacekeepers (on the eastern continent) have Power values, otherwise the same.
Energy distribution: 50% Research, 50% Economy


Diplomatic relationships:

Planetmind: Probably their best friend in the universe!
Pirates, Cyborgs, Data Angels, Gaians: Pact (Chiron Alliance partners)
Cult: Military pact (Politically they have little in common, but cooperate against Spartans)
University, Morgans: Not much of a relationship, but effectively, these are enemies because of their alliance with the Spartans and hostility towards Chiron Alliance members (Angels and Cyborgs).
Spartans: Definitely their worst enemies in the universe!
Hive: Hostilities have ended and a peace treaty is in place. Ideas about further cooperation are being discussed, but the Peacekeepers do not really trust the Hive all that much...
Free Drones: No real contact yet, but it is quite possible that they could be friends. However, as stated above, Planetmind is probably the Peacekeepers' best friend in the world...
Believers: Don't know them at all...


Base operations / production:
Haven't gotten too far with this stuff yet, but with their current social settings, there are no modifiers on morale or industry, so what they have is what they get. Support: Only 1 free unit per base. The rest will cost mineral resources to keep. Efficiency is great, research very good, but they are vulnerable to probe team action. Also, they have a very good relationship with Planet.

The "pro-war" bunch are a little different because of their power values... (Better support and morale, not so cool industry and research.)

I am assuming every base on the Eastern Continent has a Command Center, so that all ground units formed here will start out as commandos. The bases at PK Island don't have command centers (except UNHQ), but they do have a pretty decent industry, which allows them to build stuff faster than the bases on the Eastern Continent...
The U.N. Navy currently consists of 18 Missile Foils and 4 transport foils.
The U.N. Air Force is still pretty small, but they can hold their own against the Spartan Air Force, which is all they're trying to do at the moment...

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited April 05, 2001).]

[Natan]

Thanks a million, Lordlmp, for the map.

I'm not sure how to do population numbers for my bases. Most people's numbers have hundreds of thousands of people per base. Most of my bases show up as size one on my map, I don't know how to translate that into an absolute number though. Additonally, none of my bases have terraforming of any sort. I think this is a little unrealistic, unless the terraforming was just left out for convenience. However, I will post the following. Once I get more data, I will add to it.

The Hive

The Hive is a police state running a planned economy. Growth and industry are both very good, with the latter being on par with that of the Drones. There is no inefficiency since no attempt is made to provide more than the minimum necessary for survival and productive work to the citizens. Most citizens are ideologically pure, those who are not are either imprisoned in forced labor camps or killed. The higher productivity of the majority who are dedicated to the Hive's ideals makes up for the resulting loss of workers.

All Bases have the following base facilities:
Recycling Tanks
Recreation Commons (no recreation here, more of a ministry of propaganda or an internal security/secret police HQ) I'm not sure about this one though, because if my bases are really mostly size one, than I will only have these in the larger bases and rely on the military police everywhere else.
Children's Creche
Network Node
Perimeter defense (due to bases being built underground)

All bases have the following units:
2 AAA plasma garrisons (just finished upgrading to this)
one 6-1-1 missile infantry.
one probe team
These units are relatively cheap and easy to build, so I feel that I can afford three per base. Additionally, each base has a former and then some other units, which I will discuss seperately. In most cases, these units are basically green or disciplined.
ooc: I added a little to this when I saw there were some things my bases would have had that I forgot to mention.

Additionally, we have the following forces outside of those present in each base.
At Laborer's throng and fecundity tower, the missile infantries have plasma armor and there is a X 5-1-2 gatling rover with nerve gas at both bases. There are an additional two non nerve gas gatling rovers at society grid. These units are hardened from previous battles with Spartans and Drones.

The planet neck and the square next to it on my side of the border are honeycombed with bunkers, garrisons, and artillery. 3 AAA plasma garrisons and three 6-1-1 nerve gas artilleries, plus two nerve gas gatling rovers. These units are disciplined.

At the hive, there is a 6-3-1 nerve gas missile infantry instead of a 6-1-1 normal missile infantry.

The Hive navy consists of four 4-2-1 foils, three on the west coast and one on the east. They mostly stay in port and are responsible for coastal defense, although on the east coast they are more daring and engage in coastal bombardment at times.


This is my first admin post, so I'm sorry if there's something wrong. Please tell me if I made a mistake anywhere, and try to answer my two questions at the top. I would also like to know if the amount of production I am doing is reasonable, whether it is too much or too little, and if there is any sort of formula for production. Thank you.

edit: More on the Hive's social and military structure

The Hive maintains a very high growth rate. Every women who is able is expected to have a child every two years between the ages of 16 and 46, unless her skills are needed more than her womb. This means that the growth rate is very high, around 5 or six percent per year. Once nutrients become insufficient to feed the growing population, the extras are sent to the army or are used in brutal slave labor. After birth, the child is raised in the local children's creche with no real family except the other children and the caretakers. They do not form real emotional bonds with their caretakers, nor with most of the other children, until the time when they are put into selective training in secondary school, at which point they bond with those other children who are slated to become their co-workers. Generally, the Hive citizen follows the advice of the government, which is not to bond with a single person but with the spirit of humanity as a whole and with the Hive government, which represents this spirit. This makes the citizenry extremely loyal, despite the fact that it is treated as machinery. In fact, it embraces its role as a machine in the service of the greater group.

Industrially, the Hive is a powerhouse. Since no money is wasted on luxuries, more is available to be spent on security and industry. With the current planned police state, the Hive has +2 industry as well as +2 support and police. With children's creches, growth is at +3. Must Hive products follow the basic principal of strength through simplicity. Each product is simple, this means that although it may not be the most effective, it is easy to teach even a common drone how to use and is highly reliable. If they can be had at the same price, it is better to have two products which together are as good as one than the reverse, because the two products can be spread out, and if one breaks, the other remains intact. Generally, user-friendliness, safety, and elegance take a back seat to effectiveness and simplicity. This is especially true of weapons, which brings us to the next point, Hive military structure.

The average Hive unit is an infantry one, a 6-3-1 or 4-3-1 unit, generally armed with nerve gas. The soldiers are divided up on the basic Maoist triad system, in which three man sections join to form 9 man squads, and in which three squads form a platoon, and so on. In addition, at each level above section, new weapons are added. Thus at the squad level, machine guns can be found, and at the platoon level, heavier machine guns, anti air-craft weapons, or wire guided anti-tank rockets, and at the company level, mortars. At the battalion level heavier weapons of these kinds are integrated along with a headquarters, and at the regimental level there is still heavier artillery and an engineer unit.
The average Hive infantry man is highly motivated and ideologically pure. He performed well in his youth group, and showed great loyalty to the Hive, as well as good physical abilities and although not the most intelligent, he is savvy. He is probably armed with a sturdy but inaccurate submachine gun, excellent at close ranges but highly inaccurate at long ones. If he has proven himself to be a good shot, he may be armed with a semi-automatic rifle which is accurate but has a low rate of fire. This was found to be more efficient and less wasteful of ammo than equipping every soldier with an automatic weapon. He probably also carries a cheap rocket launcher capable of firing anti tank or anti personnel grenades at medium ranges. It is a cheap tubular weapon capable of firing ten shots before the tube becomes worn out. It owes more to the world war II panzerfaust than to a wire guided anti tank weapon.
If he is a better soldier, perhaps he has been intrusted with a light machine gun or an anti-aircraft gun, or even one of the precious guided anti tank weapons. The Hive soldier is an excellent soldier on the defensive. He is an expert at digging trenches, at taking cover, at suicide missions, at the use of land mines, and at overlapping fire zones. One would not want to meet him in a prepared bunker. But on the offensive, he is reliant on nerve gas, with which he loves to smoke his opponents out of their hiding places and to terrorize civillians. He delivers it by mortar, when he can spare the mortars from their task of pounding enemy troops. The mortar is his favorite weapon for all times, whether he uses it to fire guided anti tank rounds, numerous anti personnel fletchettes, napalm, or nerve gas. The mortar is simple, cheap, and reliable, all the traits of a Hive weapon. The Hive soldier is a very good walker, and he can march more about 30 kilometers a day. He is adept at long trecks even through bad terrain to launch surprise assaults on unsuspecting enemies. He is a primitive low tech soldier, but a very good one.

The cream of the Hive forces is the rovers. They are unarmored, but highly effective. They are built like oversized jeeps, highly reliable, even if unarmored. They carry a turret mounted missile launcher for heavy fighting and two impact machine guns for anti-personnel use at closer ranges. There drivers are well trained, and they also have mortars mounted on their vehicles. They also find nerve gas extremely useful, and are adept at relentless and daring assaults on their enemies. They are mass produced and highly effective in combat, but attrition rates are very high.

OOC: I'll continue this later.

Edit: more on the Hive. I have also updated some of the hard info.

The life of the average Hive citizens begins at 00:00, the first hour of the day being synchronized to the hour of roll call. It is barely light out. The buzzer rings, and he tumbles out of bed. His room is just a sleeping chamber, three meters by three meters by three meters. It has a bed and nothing else in it except his personal worksuits, gas mask, and a few other vital pieces of equipment. He races down to the collective shower room, much like the shower room of the public pools in non-Hive towns. There is a small amount of foamy cleanser, which serves as both soap and shampoo on rack jutting out of the wall below the shower head. As he walks in, he is sprayed with a mist of water. When he reaches his shower station, he lathers the liquid over his body and and turns on the water, quickly rinsing it off. The whole process from the time he walked into the door has been less than three minutes. The water is at best lukewarm, as no attempt is made to heat it.
He and his comrades practivce gymnastics until they are dry, at which point they put on their work suits and walk to the subway station, which they eat breakfast on while it brings them strait to their jobs, where they get right to work. If his job is an intellectually stimulating one, then he works at it exclusively for eight to ten hours, if it is a menial factory job, he converses with his co workers while at work. But he does not converse about frivolous subjects. They talk about philosophy and the Chairman's latest works, or about how to increase efficiency at the factory or in some other aspect of life. Unapproved conversations can be punished by a caning from the supervisor, or more likely by re-education. Not that that matters much, because after three generations of selective breeding and education, the average Hive citizen is extremely loyal. Midday through work the workers take a twenty minute break to eat a meal, usually rice, soy, and some kind of fruit. After work, he either takes the subway to an adult education center or whatever extra duties he may have that day. They may include work at a nursery, working at tasks which need to be completed on a fast time table, or base security. Or, he may have no such duties at all. Afterwards, he takes the the subway back to his sleeping quarters to catch six hours of sleep before the next work day. This monotony is interrupted only by the two days out of the ten day week devoted specially to self improvement and and other duties outside the factory.
The average woman in the Hive lives a somewhat different life. Her living quarters are segregated from the mens, and she is expected to have a child every two years. Only the best males are allowed to reproduce, and a somewhat looser but still harsh standard applies to females as well. If the woman has shown special aptitude at some useful skill her child bearing duties may be relaxed, but this is relatively uncommon. She is expected to keep working through the ninth month of pregnancy, although generally her work is light, so as not to harm the fetus. Typical jobs include working in nurseries and cleaning buildings.
[This message has been edited by Natan (edited March 25, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Natan (edited April 01, 2001).]

[DarkCloud]

Well I am now back...

XWaste the believers are still free-
I could do a neat thing with you on that front; I have a religious idea of a faction within the University having a religious riot and the University attempts to put the religious people down, who are then funded by the Believers,

Guardian, No faction has Neural Grafting yet...well, except the cyborg sort of, which naturally have a limit tech of it until fully properly researched.

[Guardian]

OK, well I kind of wondered about that...

Anyway, let's just say that the pro-war PKs have power values instead of knowledge, then. That seems to fit their description better anyways...