Comparison fight US Apolyton vs. German league. - Page 8

DrSpike · May 30, 2003, 14:59

These debates are always fun.........but I usually see what I think are muddled ideas.

As far as I can see Rah has it right with his turn comparison in the last post. A free 30 shields is worth less at 2x, that is indisputable.

What makes the debate interesting is War's last point about compounding...........because that could change things.

My feeling on this is that land in particular is not as crucial at 2x (though restarting till it's fairish is my preferred solution since I think 1x is more balanced than 2x), and huts can be more important in 1x.

But it's not easy, I can be swayed..........War how does your compounding story go?

rah · May 30, 2003, 15:15

The compounding is all relative. If you have 2 cities in 1x producing 5 shields each and extra city producing 5 shields is 10/15 or a 50 percent increase.
In 2x at ten shields a city it's 20/30 or the same 50 percent increase. So relative value after received is the same. It's the initial value is where the advantage is recieved.

War4ever · May 30, 2003, 16:13

YES THE BASE INCREASE IS THE SAME IN EITHER, BUT WITH MORE PRODUCTION FOR THE SAME COST OF RAW MATERAILS, YOU CAN PRODUCE MORE IN X2 THEREFORE THE XTRA 50% BSE CONSTRUCTION HAS MORE VALUE B/C OF ITS ABILITY TO HAVE SAY TWO EXTRA WARRIORS ON THE BOARD UNCOVERING MORE LAND, AND THAT IS BEING CONSERVATIVE .......

rah · May 30, 2003, 17:13

Whoa, glad I learned my math where I did. They would have fired me a long time ago using that type of logic.

IT"S RELATIVE.

But we'll let others discuss the merits since it seems we won't agree.

War4ever · May 30, 2003, 17:40

a third city in x2 production allows you to build anything quicker.....its not relative b/c the costs of warriors/sets are the same but your double production makes it easier to build them...

how can it be relative....?

i am sure anything in x2 compounds far more than it does in x1

either way...both give the player an advantage early in the game.

but i still think compounding things in x2 gives a bigger advantage....

as for the post above..i think i am explaining it poorly

rah · May 30, 2003, 18:42

Two cities kick out a warrior in 1x vs
three cities kick out a warrior in 1x 2 warriors/3 warriors. increase of 50% in warriors.

In 2x (in the same amount of time)
two cities kick out 2 warriors, for 4
and three cities kick out 2 warriors, for 6, or 4/6=2/3
an increase of 50%
That's relative.

The only difference is the initial cost of the settler, hence more valuable in 1x.

War4ever · May 30, 2003, 21:22

or the other way to look at it , is you get more sets on the board even faster b/c of the third set in x2 meaning you populate the board quicker.

the build cost stays the same,, your speed is greater in x2 , therefore the third settler has more importance early in x2

Ming · May 31, 2003, 03:53

Sorry... I agree with rah... at 1x, it takes longer to kick out a settler and make up for hut luck.

At 2x production, you can make it up quicker.

While it is all relative, it's still a matter of catching up... and that can be done quicker at 2x production than one time.

Cobra · May 31, 2003, 08:15

Back to topic:
SmartFart and me started our game. Now we are 1100 AD and the end is open. SmartFart is a fair und very good player and it´s a lot of fun to play him. Even if i´ll loose.

woke · May 31, 2003, 09:24

I've been beating up Makeo a little. 3-0 for the germans.

SmartFart · May 31, 2003, 12:36

Makeo,my friend

You should contact me for some free lessons in deity x1x1 before embarassing Apolyton in such a hard way

Cobra...I sense this will end with Fighters,Cavalry and Artillery. I am really enjoying this game and am eager to continue our game ASAP.

Woke...care to continue our duel sometimes?

Jes...care to continue our duel?

Take care gentlemen. I really missed Civ in last 6 months of my absence. This is what I am calling having some fun.

SF

War4ever · May 31, 2003, 18:37

well done guys...wish i had the time right now, way to busy...but when i get back from vacation we shall see what we can do

jes · June 2, 2003, 03:02

hi smart! yea, id like to continue our game.
your game with cobra shows me, it wont be easy to beat you

Makeo · June 2, 2003, 04:16

heh heh

jes · June 2, 2003, 04:43

wow, i just see the result of woke

. great, im glad we have a player like woke :R

Makeo · June 2, 2003, 05:27

i'm just lulling him into a false sense of security.

Hydey · June 2, 2003, 07:26

good thinking Makeo

Now crush him.

atawa · June 2, 2003, 19:21

I doubt that on 1x1x Deity.

/me Cheering for Makeo anyway

jes · June 3, 2003, 01:52

i had good luck and beat winzity

War4ever · June 3, 2003, 09:53

woke26 · June 3, 2003, 10:19

sure smartfart, i can continue this friday or saturday.

Cobra · June 26, 2003, 06:16

SmartFart, we´ve had no contact for about 2 weeks. Are you in a training camp, in order to sweep me away from the map with a new trick? Or was our last session so exerting that you drove into vacation?

Makeo · June 26, 2003, 06:28

actually i think it was his game with me that was so exerting.

Cobra · June 26, 2003, 06:42

btw: I am very pleased that some people of Apolyton now are also interested in the German league. I will try to translate at least the rules in English so that you get along faster.

Makeo · June 26, 2003, 07:19

winzity made me join. i think he wouldn't play on if i didn't.

since he is winning the game.

Cobra · June 26, 2003, 07:33

Winzity is hard in takes and a fair player. If he brought you to us, you will have the same characteristics

. I am available today starting from 9 pm CET over ICQ, if you want to play a game (perhaps with winzity, too?).

Makeo · June 26, 2003, 07:35

thanks. but i'm at work.

winzity · June 26, 2003, 07:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
I would say the same... I'm not a big fan of games at lower than Deity settings... And I can't stand what 2x movement does to combat... Cats that can land off a ship and attack on the same turn just seems SOOOOOOO unrealistic

I have played in a number of the RAH groups games (your game group) playing 2x1x deity, but have stopped.
There are 2 reasons:

1. The game session ends before the really interesting things happens in the game. And your game group never resumes games... (:

2. 2x production makes the game a completelly different game! And worse RAH and some other exploit it to maximum... I am here to play Civ 2 nothing else

Therefore ONLY 1x1x deity never more waste time on something else like 2x1x or Civ 3...

It's not so hard to figure out why Apolyton is known as a 2x site, it's because RAH and Ming posts a lot here and people read the posts and made comclusions upon it

atawa · June 26, 2003, 14:03

Quote:

Originally posted by winzity
2. 2x production makes the game a completelly different game! And worse RAH and some other exploit it to maximum... I am here to play Civ 2 nothing else

Sounds like you got the living **** kicked out of you

But was that the reason you didnt like it?

Its all just different mods of the same game, and minor at that. Making you alter strats slightly.

I rather enjoy playing different settings, playing almost the same game over and over again gets kinda

War4ever · June 26, 2003, 17:13

i agree ATAWA......real civers learn to win on different settings...tho i must admit my x2xs2 king skills are weak