Stupid patriotic Americans - Page 7

Ned · May 11, 2003, 23:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

As well as every other "bad" regime in history right?

I wonder who's going to solve the problem of a "bad" US government...

The are a lot of Americans who promised us that they would leave the US if Bush got elected. They are still here. All of them. But they, like you, see no good in the United States. Our internvention in Iraq is evil, to them, because Bush did it. Bush, a Republican.

I only wish these Bush bashers, like Sean Penn, would visit Iraq now and see how long they even survive. I bet angry mobs will tear them limb for limb because they supported a brutal dictator.

Master Zen, on the issue of Latin America not wanting us, I bet they do want us when law and order completely breaks down and mobs are wandering the streets. The people who want us are the avearage folk who simply want good government that will protect them and their property. The people of Latin American who do not want us are the communists and their allies who want to impose an egalitarian dark age on Latin America in the mold of Castro's medieval nightmare of abuse.

Think about it.

Why are you, Master Zen, taking the sides of brutal dictators, theives and communists against America? Are you one of these?

Sava · May 11, 2003, 23:58

thats right... if you aren't with us, you're against us

what a crock of sh1t

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 00:00

Ned, you haven't even been to Latin America most likely, who the hell are you to know what they want and need???

YOU are the narrow-minded one who seems to brand everyone a "communist" if he doesn't share the US view of the world. Communism is dead buddy, it's dead everywhere in Latin America. Castro is the last one and he will surely be gone. You don't know squat about Latin American politics, ideologies, etc. all you are doing is blasting nonsense based on no fact whatsoever. I dare you, I really do, to come over, spend some time and then repeat exactly the same things you have been saying.

No I am not a communist, but thanks for asking

I am a person who dislikes US interference in the foreign affairs of others. If that is "communism" to you, look in the mirror and see who's the one who's been brainwashed.

Kramerman · May 12, 2003, 00:01

USA! USA! USA!

Sava · May 12, 2003, 00:09

right on Master Zen... America is infected with a large group of ignorant people that don't know what goes on outside of their own little worlds. Politicians have these sheep brainwashed into thinking the world is black and white. And it's unfortunate because these people also vote...

"Democracy requires an informed public" -- Thomas Jefferson

But our information is controlled and fed to us with the goal of selling more commercial time and getting higher ratings. Rags like FOXnews make their money by preying off of real, sacred emotions like patriotism and twist it into a blind following IDENTICAL to the kind of fundamentalism Osama bin Laden perverts from the religion of Islam.

Felch · May 12, 2003, 00:09

USA USA USA !!! WOOOOOOOOOO

Better watch out Ming or this'll turn into an American babe thread. I am fiercly committed to preventing any criticism of my country and will defend it will google searches of the hottest girls in America.

USA USA USA

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 00:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman

USA! USA! USA!

VIVA MEXICO

OUR GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF CRAP!!!!

(I mean it)

now THAT's patriotism

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 00:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava

right on Master Zen... America is infected with a large group of ignorant people that don't know what goes on outside of their own little worlds. Politicians have these sheep brainwashed into thinking the world is black and white. And it's unfortunate because these people also vote...

"Democracy requires an informed public" -- Thomas Jefferson

As long as 1 person sees the truth...there is hope

Sava · May 12, 2003, 00:15

Quote:

I am fiercly committed to preventing any criticism of my country

build a time machine and go back to Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia... this is America... we don't need any more freedom-hating wolves in disguise...

Kramerman · May 12, 2003, 00:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

VIVA MEXICO

OUR GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF CRAP!!!!

(I mean it)

now THAT's patriotism

yes, your governemnt is crappy. Are you doing anything about that?

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 00:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman
yes, your governemnt is crappy. Are you doing anything about that?

Is it any of your business?

MichaeltheGreat · May 12, 2003, 00:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
It believes in certain general principles such as democracy and human rights. We patriotic Americans are willing to fight for freedom, for ourselves for the sake of others.

Then why has the US just as, if not more often (let's avoid a count

) supported dictatorship and oppression, when the dictators and oppressors were friendly to US ideological and/or commercial interests?

Quote:

Our patriotism is a belief that we can do good and have done good in liberating Iraq. When we succeed in liberating a people and bringing them freedom and justice from oppression and murder, we are proud. Such is American patriotism.

Then why is it that many of the people who espouse this line immediately find excuses for making Iraq a one-off exception, and finding reasons why we can't (won't) ever do anything about it - Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Sudan, dozens of other countries. Most of the same people who spout the "goodness" and "liberation" pablum also rationalize the relatively low pace of engagement and low level of financial commitment in Afghanistan by "we were only there to get rid of the Taleban and al Qaeda, anything else we do is a bonus." So why are these "good" "noble" "inclusive" folks looking for excuses to avoid having the invasion of Iraq become part of a consistent human rights doctrine?

You can't do this:

1. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
2. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
3. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
4. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
5. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
6. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator, oil, nobody likes him
7. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
8. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator
9. Human rights abuse, nasty dictator, no oil, but nobody likes them either and they have terrorists

and say, "Hey, lets go get number 6 and number 9, because we're really nice guys who hate human rights abusers" and expect anyone else to believe that nonsense.

edit - fixed number

Joseph · May 12, 2003, 00:50

Just reading through.

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 00:51

Great post MtG but I fear Ned has been permanently brainwashed... one more poor soul lost to FOX news...

Kramerman · May 12, 2003, 00:59

Quote:

and say, "Hey, lets go get number 5 and number 9, because we're really nice guys who hate human rights abusers" and expect anyone else to believe that nonsense.

did you mean 6 and 9?

Ming · May 12, 2003, 01:03

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 01:06

How to know you have lost a debate: Rule #1

Note the technicalities. Ignore the substance.

Kramerman · May 12, 2003, 01:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen
How to know you have lost a debate: Rule #1

Note the technicalities. Ignore the substance.

I agree with his post, it was a genuine question...

Hmm... I shall note that you said this, and will be sure to bring it up... as you break down to this often...

EDIT: i wasnt even debating anything

Kramerman · May 12, 2003, 01:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

Is it any of your business?

does this mean no? true patriot you are indeed...

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 01:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman

Hmm... I shall note that you said this, and will be sure to bring it up... as you break down to this often...

yeah...ok...whatever. Put it on your sig so you won't forget

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 01:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman

does this mean no? true patriot you are indeed...

Did I say no? Nope. Enemies of the state do not reveal their plans, much less to citizens of other states.

Ted Striker · May 12, 2003, 01:17

I don't see what Gene Hackman and Will Smith have to do with this muchacho.

Kramerman · May 12, 2003, 01:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

Did I say no? Nope. Enemies of the state do not reveal their plans, much less to citizens of other states.

In that case good luck. your gonna need it to turn Mexico into anything decent.

MichaeltheGreat · May 12, 2003, 01:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Master Zen, on the issue of Latin America not wanting us, I bet they do want us when law and order completely breaks down and mobs are wandering the streets.

We're doing just fine without Yanquis imperialism thank you.

Quote:

The people who want us are the avearage folk who simply want good government that will protect them and their property.

The US has never been involved in providing either. Partly cleaning up ****ups of your own creation (a la Noriega) doesn't count.

What you have done is horseshit like in El Salvador, where the Salvadoran people were used as pawns in cold war proxy games, and once the US lost interest, the thugs armed by the US and the thugs armed by the USSR got together as criminal gangs because they outgun the legitimate authorities. Or Nicaragua, which was invaded numerous times to keep things in line for United Fruit. The true ******* leaders of this hemisphere - Stroessner, Peron, Pinochet, Papa Doc, Batasta, Trujillo, etc. etc. have all been ******* buddies of the US government and commercial interests.

Quote:

The people of Latin American who do not want us are the communists and their allies who want to impose an egalitarian dark age on Latin America in the mold of Castro's medieval nightmare of abuse.

And everyone else, with the exception of a very few who've benefitted directly or indirectly from some form of colonial or neocolonial theivery or corruption. The middle class doesn't want you. Most of them would be happy to tell you the gringos what to do with their pinche Monroe Doctrine - "you Europeans **** off, we're the only imperial power allowed in this hemisphere"

BTW, Castro isn't appreciably worse than Batista was, and in a lot of ways, he's better. Trouble is, Batista (and his wife) were paid whores of United Fruit and M. A. Hanna, and sold off Cuban resources for a song (and a 10% kickback for he and his wife). Castro nationalized what had been taken by graft. Therein the difference lies as far as the US is concerned - otherwise, they couldn't tell one banana country's brown skinned uniformed leader from another.

Quote:

Think about it.

The only thing I'm wondering is if this BS is just a troll.

Quote:

Why are you, Master Zen, taking the sides of brutal dictators, theives and communists against America? Are you one of these?

Any foreigner in his right mind has good reasons to be opposed to US arrogance and the US notion that it has the God-given right to do anything it wants to anyone in the world, if it's perceived to fit Yanquis interests. Saudi Arabia is the most oppressive regime in the ME by far, and the US has had it's nose up the Saudi royal's collective asses for decades, because they're our boys. Human rights and the Saudi people be damned. It's the same in the rest of the world - the US is interested in exact proportion to it's own strategic and commercial interests, no more and no less.

Ming · May 12, 2003, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
the US is interested in exact proportion to it's own strategic and commercial interests, no more and no less.

Yes, the US is guilty as charged... Just like most other countries...

MichaeltheGreat · May 12, 2003, 01:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman

did you mean 6 and 9?

Yeah, I typoed it. When LTEC! is working on the real computer upstairs, I get stuck with this little crap computer with a normal straight keyboard, and I'm used to the more spread out ergonomic keyboards.

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 01:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Kramerman

In that case good luck. your gonna need it to turn Mexico into anything decent.

Luck is just a point in a probability curve. What is needed to turn Mexico, and EVERY other country for that matter into truly decent places is for their citizens to be educated, informed, and to stop buying all the BS they hear from the propaganda-machines of their country and any other.

Sadly, I don't see how some of you are contributing to your own country's welfare by thinking the way you do.

Ted Striker · May 12, 2003, 01:30

That doesn't sound very Machiavellian to me though.

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

Yes, the US is guilty as charged... Just like most other countries...

but no one has a bigger mouth than the US in boasting itself as the savior of freedom and democracy. No one is saying other countries are innocent, but no one beats the US in spouting such BS rhetoric.

Master Zen · May 12, 2003, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
That doesn't sound very Machiavellian to me though.

It is so un-machiavellian its machiavellian