The Chiron Chronicle: Discussions 2

[Clear Skies]

Due to encroaching GCSEs and exponentially-increasing school workload, I am indefinitely suspending my involvement in this story.
It's been fun...sometimes...so I might be back. once the factions are a bit more evenly spread amongst the players, perhaps

[DarkCloud]

I dont complain about the pirates because I see a need for some factions to be overpowering to the others... just like the real game.

[DarkCloud]

Guardian: Just leave the dates in; it doesn't matter.

Will be hard to do propaganda in the Pirate faction as first, all the seabases are quite isolated from each other, so general communications and domestic travel is limited among those bases are limited. Each base also have more of a sence of community, as they are cramp in a limiting base. Also, they are Pirates!

As for relations with the rest of the Chiron Alliance, may acquire minor success, as there was suspicions from the rest of the alliance, especially with Planetmind nosing in Pirate affairs. Hey, they establish a free for all prison on some small island north-west from the Gaians where they don't their prisoners (Prison Island). they quickly and secretly put down the Larionov Forces who took control of Pirate Island and declared independence...known as the Larionov Rebellion. The general populace didn't even know they had a rebellion still :P of course, there is rumours about...but not as much as now.

anyway, both the Spartans and the Pirates are Power like societies anyway

-LordLMP

[Sprayber]

Not propaganda towards the pirates, but towards the rest of the alliance about the Pirates.
[This message has been edited by Sprayber (edited May 01, 2001).]

[DarkCloud]

Thank you for the authoring SMAC, we hope o have you back as soon as possible... Goodbye for now.

[Argonaut]

I could probably do basic stuff for the Cyborgs if you want, along the lines of how you guys run the Morganites etc. Just doing basic stuff. For the most part the Angels and Cyborgs work together anyway, so it wouldn't be a big deal. I don't really mind though.

[Cyber]

Whats up! Yes, I´m back again Any chance for me to get back into the game?
I was thinking of playing one of my own creations, the Spartan sub-faction, Cult of War. I´ll work out the factions details later...
I plan to move most of the cultists to the northern island, where there already is one Spartan colony, with or without the support(material) cooperation of the Spartan Federation . I think the Spartans will actually be relieved to get rid of the Cultists ...

Sprayber, you´ve done a marvelous job playing the Spartans! though it´s a shame you didn´t use the Cult of War forces at all (they reside in one of the conquered bunkers on the defensive line)

Guardian, i didn´t leave because of any argument we had, i actually enjoyed them It´s just that I didn´t have enough time to participate in the game,(and I won´t have much either in the future)

People, I´m warning you, this game will get quite boring if the Chiron Alliance has such a superiority. The Alliance members work together as if in symbiosis, and there is currently no outside force to give them a sufficient threat.I mean, normally this is very good, but this is story writing and what interesting story can you write when everything is great and there is no motivating threat. Annual budgets? Naah...
The solution is to get some rivalry between alliance members, and by that way, potential wars and break off´s.

Oh BTW, the cyborg Clayson is still on the move... being quite a while actually, and he has his commands...


[This message has been edited by Cyber (edited May 02, 2001).]

I understand about the Chiron Alliance been a bit overpowering or whatever. The Chiron Alliance is just a simple Economical and Military alliance. All factions in it are Pact with each other, so each leader of each faction is a leader of the Chiron Alliance. But never said anywhere that it is perfect, but don't want it have end up falling apart and end at going at war with each other. having war war war war war gets pretty silly, boring and can lead to problems, like this Spartan War as proven. This game is suppose to be a Diplomacy like game, not a All-out War strategy. So there will be political/diplomatic problems in the Chiron Alliance. and it has its hic-ups, and the other factions of the alliance have question the Pirates power/inluence in the alliance, they are not blind from it either. The Pirates are the only Power Like faction in the alliance, and with their pirate like ways, they are considered Roguish/Loose Cannon. So far, the Pirates hasn't done anything seriously bad which it would cause a lot of problems, but the rumours of the Larionov Rebellion, rumours of prison island, the previous "trade war" with the morganites, pirates steping on the other members authourity(like when sven contacted morganite and mentioned Morgan Banks), heavy naval build up and their military presence in almost all the seas, and so on.
The rest of the alliance can't seriously do much, as the Pirates have gueranteed naval trade, helped the data angels and peacekeepers establish a good navy, keeps the water lanes safe, support the UN Charter, believe in Freedom, supports democracy and green economy, encourages research, supports the Global Trade Agreement(despite some hic-ups in their silly Trade War with Morgan before), and so on. So its easy to see the Pirates having the most influence in the alliance, but they don't have control of the alliance.

The things which other factions can attack politicly/diplomaticly/propagandaly/etc the pirates:

-their Large naval presence, Naval Power
-Morganite accusation that the pirates have a Monopoly on naval trade (Global Trade Agreement is against monopolies)
-Prison Island, after one confirms its existance
-Pirate, Roguish and Power like ways
-their passive distrust for the cyborgs
-their distrust of factions operating under Knowledge
-accusations of the pirates intent of controling Chiron's seas
-occasionally steping on other authourities
-doing something without others general consent and so on
-political situation of the pirates supporting the independence of Blast Rifle Crag under the Chiron Alliance flag, without discussing with the rest of the members

I do expect factions who have a problem with this chiron alliance to attack politicly/etc the Pirates.


Other things.... thinking of have a Colonial/etc race at Isle of Deiamera, especially when i bring in the Alien Center in the middle of the island which at the moment is still unknown about as the island is still not fully explored. And Antimind doesn't have complete control of the island, just have a small fungal base there.
Could also have a arm race and space race once we acquire orbital spaceflight (won't have actual spaceflight until Advance Spaceflight tech), like start shooting up Hydroponic/Comm sats, later Defence Pods.
of course, thats after more than two factions acquires Orbital Spaceflight.
Also, can have Antimind become a Serious threat...there is still that fungal patch between War Outpost and the Great Dunes, where there is a Fungal tower that is growing and generating mindworms. (only have this started if players are interested, as it may lead to alot of unconventional/psionic/fantasy like combat.)

as for the peace talks, better that we do them in holo, more like comm messages back in forth :P like the Planetary Governor election and so on at the beginning/dring of 2180, will useless drag to long. Pirates will agree to the any peace agreements which does effect the pirates in any serious way, like University's silly proposal of disbanding some units :P
Because Lal is Planetary Governor, Guardian is technicly responsible for things to happen and voted upon quickly, or else it will drag on and eventually abandoned/forgotten/lost interest/etc. So now there is two motions that needs to be voted upon: have all factions to establish a embassy in each others Capitals, instead of an armed presence and establishing the Interfactional Peacekeeping Force that will be patrol the specified DMZ between the Spartans and Peacekeepers(including through the fungus patch in the middle) and then vote who will command the IPF (no faction leader. suggest General Kane as a candinate which the PKs could nominate ).

as part of the peacetalks between spartans and pks, the option of spartans giving back Data Acquisition so the Combine Army can have safe passage back out of PK territory. Combine Army is currently cut off from the res of sparta.

Spray, the combine army would be one third or half the pre-war size by now, counting the losses to get through the defence lines, fighting the Kane's Hive units, capturing Data Acquition, PKs destroying the rover unit and artillery unit further north at the defence lines, cutting off the Combine Army from rest of sparta and then having spartans fighting spartans. And the combine army is comprise of rover units...so if the crews kill each other, there would be a shortage of crews for the rovers.

[Sprayber]

quote: as part of the peacetalks between spartans and pks, the option of spartans giving back Data Acquisition so the Combine Army can have safe passage back out of PK territory. Combine Army is currently cut off from the res of sparta.

It will be one of the things offered. As far as the rover episode goes. Well, it had to be dramitic. And crews can be found. The may not be elite but they are Spartans after all.

quote: Other things.... thinking of have a Colonial/etc race at Isle of Deiamera, especially when i bring in the Alien Center in the middle of the island which at the moment is still unknown about as the island is still not fully explored. And Antimind doesn't have complete control of the island, just have a small fungal base there.

Who all has bases there? Drones, Morgans, Spartans(cult of war)and who else.

What ever happen to the Cult of Planet?

[This message has been edited by Sprayber (edited May 03, 2001).]

[Sprayber]

Don't worry Cyber. The Spartan are just getting to where we will have some breathing room. Us and the Hive will be working closly in the upcomming months and years to bring a new vision to Chiron. I was going to be using the cult in the upcomming civil war on Helzburg's side. But if you want to take them to the northern contienent. That will be fine. We have determined that we cannot simply fight them on the ground. Sparta will need to become a sea and air power. That will take a little time. But it will happen. If the mods don't have any objections, i don't care if you take the cult. Kessel has not love for the cult and would be happy to let them leave. He would really like to destroy them. But he wants to avoid that if necessary. He is waiting to release the Combine Army loose on War Outpost.

He is right about the cozy relationship among the alliance. When the Spartan threat appears to die down, there will bound to be some increasing tension between the members. I think lal has started down that road already in a way. The Pirates may be getting a little carried away with their power. It is lal afterall that is the planatary gov.

Also we do need to speed things up a bit on the peace talks. Will there be a face to face meeting or maybe a holo meeting somewhere. Helzberg may try and disrupt the talks in some way. Maybe try and convince one of the faction leaders that he is the legitmate government in Sparta and not this upstart Kessel. Would lal be intested in a meeting with Kessel? That would make history, wouldn't it?

And about Clayson. It might give one of my reluncted hero's at ruby ridge an opporuntiy to play the martyer. who knows. I think Braddock would be extreamly impressed if a Spartan died saving his life. don't you all.
[This message has been edited by Sprayber (edited May 02, 2001).]

At the moment, the Morganites, Data Angels, Free Drones and Spartans(Cult of War) have bases on the island. And the Antimind fungus base, which was on the island for awhile. Also there is a pirate base or two near the island :P When i bring up the alien center, i would think there would be a race for it...as it may be connected bringing the aliens to Chiron :P (Alien Center = Subspace Comm Center :P)

-LordLMP

And Blake, who plays Cult of PLanet, haveen't posted for awhile :/ may try emailing him to see if he is still playing. All email Chris, who plays Planetmind.

-LordLMP

Its further south, the one near Assassin's redoubt...actually, the base is in the channel! :P can't see how the Spartans would suffer if a base is right there :P so they don't have a serious need to get out of the channel.

-LordLMP

[Cyber]

That´s good enough. Make atleast some problems within the Chiron alliance so that there is even a slight chance for some other faction from outside to fight and defy the power of the alliance.Give us a chance!

Sprayber, the cult of war has dug its roots deap into Sparta, meaning there are many cult members amongst the population. So, a massive population movement might need large investments(like more colony pods and other stuff...)Anyways, i was thinking that Sparta could establish atleast two more colonies, so that the Cult can act fairly independent on the island. Still, the Cult and Sparta will have close relations and a strong pact, of course. The Cult will always stay as a sub-faction.
You can imagine the cult being a religious movement, bound to either convert or eliminate. So its resembles the believers in a way.
BTW, the western army (3War rovers, 2Msl rovers) still resides in War Outpost.
I´ll move the three Cult of War units( in the conquered PK bunker near UN Haven City)back into Spartan territory. Though they officially obey the highest Spartan authority, the real ones they listen to are the priests. The Priests already know about the cease-fire, and now their main concern is to get some forces backing them, as they don´t like Kessel either The units will probably go to War Outpost, where they´ll meet Halzburg( Generals correct name)

[Guardian]

Just one minor point... If the Cult is going back up north now, they'll have to go through Commander Cooke's forces...

[Cyber]

The cease-fire is still on, right? The cultist still wear Spartan symbols, and besides the peacekeepers don´t even know about the existance of the Cult. Of course they´ll circle Cooke´s forces, but i don´t see any other problems...
[This message has been edited by Cyber (edited May 03, 2001).]

[Guardian]

Oh, that's right... I forgot... yeah, we've been fighting them for months, but no, we really don't know that they even exist... Does that make sense to you? -And what makes you think Cooke would leave his forces all neatly stacked in one place? Oh, I forgot again... he doesn't know that the enemy force he was sent to surround even exists, so how could he possibly surround them...?

Hmmm... what's wrong with this picture...?
Sorry to seem like an ass, but come on, get real...

Besides, would the Cult really give a hoot about the cease-fire in the first place?? I'd suspect not. So, they wouldn't stop shooting at the Peacekeepers in spite of repeated warnings, and so after a while Cooke would be authorized to move in with the intent to destroy them all...

And before you go overboard with the "atrocity" with that rover, all the Peacekeepers did was gather the most mutilated bodies after a battle and load them on a rover, which was then sent back to Data Acquisition with a little message thrown in for good measure... No, it wasn't a nice thing to do, and certainly not something you'd expect from the Peacekeepers, but no harm was done to anyone who wasn't dead and blown apart already...

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited May 03, 2001).]

[Cyber]

As I said, they are wearing Spartan ground troop symbols. If some very daring probe team hasn´t infiltrated Spartan top-secret files about the Cult and the position of their troops, then there is no way they can know that the Cult has actually gathered up sizeable military units, and sent them to the front. The only thing they know about the Cult is what they did in Janissary Rock in the rebellion.
Are you really sure they are going to shoot at Cooke´s forces?.First, the cultists know about the cease-fire, and they aren´t going to start breaking it now. Their main concern now is how to handle the new political situation in Sparta, so they don´t need some PK´s shooting SoPo at their backs.Second, are they really so stupid as to attack a force four times bigger than theirs? I don´t think so...
Besides, we´re not talking about some hothead rookies trying to make a kill, but highly trained and disciplined soldiers who won´t start disobeying orders, and taking the situation into their own hands.
So, now it´s up to Cooke... will he break the cease-fire?

The "atrocity" rover is a perfect propaganda weapon . Kessel won´t surely use it, but some other elements like Halzburg (or the Cult at a later stage) would die to get that tape. Who cares if the Spartans were already dead when stuffed into that rover. It´s gonna be damn hard for the PK´s to prove that . In the light of the evidence, the PK´s shiny reputation is going to have a nasty dent.And thats enough to make some more friction between the Alliance members...

[Sprayber]

*sigh*

I changed Commander's Keep to Assassin's Redoubt. From the way I understood it they were farther north. But it's still cool the way it is. Take less time to get to the base now anyway.

[Guardian]

Cyber: You say it's gonna be hard for the Peacekeepers to prove that those Spartans were already dead... Well, it's gonna be even harder for the Spartans to prove that any Peacekeeper was ever anywhere near that rover! Excuse the pun, but the way you've been f@?!ing up their integrity, it's gonna look like the Spartans manufactured the whole thing themselves! Lal will say he knows nothing about it, which will be the truth, and his allies will believe him. Braddock will say he knows nothing about it, which will also be true. Commander Grafton and commander Cooke will say they know nothing about it, and that will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... Corporal Johnson (Kyla) will know nothing about it and she certainly won't suspect her own people when there are Spartans involved... See where I'm heading? They're all gonna think the Spartans did this to their own people...

As for the Cult, it seems we're back where we left off... No agreement in sight!
And yes, commander Cooke will blow them half-way back to Earth if they try to go through one of his units, and you can't say he attacked you if you were the one who was moving, ignoring warnings, etc...

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited May 04, 2001).]

Whoa there.

Cyber, game reality check... there is no such thing as a SINGLE bunker in one square...there is a clusters of bunkers in a area of 500km x 500km square. Also, i doubt that three cult of war units out of four survived the half a year or more stretch out bunker command like warfare in one square. I don't care if they are "supernatural" , the majority cannot survive. They were outnumbered by PK and Cult of Planet units/mindworms...sure they took losses and the stretch out battle ws brutal, but doubt that the majority of the Cult of War units survived. Not like that took one bunker out of a cluster and stayed there while the PKs/CoP did nothing to them in period of atleast more of a half a game year! no.


Just stating the reality check and don't bother trying to make anymore simulations with SMAC, no no no. I tell, i'm sure if i done the simulation, and reprogramme the game to allow Real Time instead of turns, wouldn't be so easy.

Sorry for being a pain like before, but just stating the reality and do edit any posts you made concerning "three CoW infantry units that survived, even in the red status" Measuring the force by quantity, in total, not wether how many Unit Commands that survived. writing this before checking the Game thread

-LordLMP

Another note, the pks at the defence lines may not have complete information on the Cult of War or the name, but during the bunker command like battle, they have succeeded in retaking some bunkers from the CoWs...so pretty much found disgusting evidence of "Evil Gothic" like rituals and so on, which labels them as complete monsters and the PKs there becoming fanatical about it, so ended up in a very brutal bunker command like command. (Infantry vs Infantry/Mind worms/Artillery units). I'm sure the Cult of Planet took some mind worm losses there. And since you mention that the CoWs heard about the cease-fire a bit late, as if they would just stop fighting. The PKs at the defence lines may hesistated a bit since they definatly got the news about the cease-fire, but its hard to do that when the CoWs are still fighting them! but would have slowed down a bit, especially if the CoWs took heavy losses by the time of receiving orders to move to War Outpost. So because the fight still continues a bit longer after cease-fire was declared (Kessel declared it, which he has no control of the CoWs) and that Cooke's Units is currently in the pre-war PK/Spartan border area and in CoWs way, doesn't no problems will arise. Again, squares are 500km X 500km! so stop thinking of it in game terms! Cooke's units would be spread out and the CoWs, minus the heavy losses, will not be able to "Overpower". General Kessel has mentioned that the Spartans is currently having internal problems, which pirate infiltrators can confirm. And the Peacekeepers along the defence lines would be informed of it, so they will still definatly fight any "rogue" spartan units.

The only real sensitive area which would definatly effect the peace talks is the situation at Data Acquisition, as the peacekeepers know Kessel does have some control over the Combine Army.

also Cyber, i'm sure you mentioned that the Combine army was comprise of North and South armies, but later reinforced with the Western Army.
The Main Army which Helzburg currently controls is pre-war size minus losses to Cooke's Units, plus rover reinforcements, minus 4 rover units.
Blockade Guardians under Kell's command following Kessel minus 2 msl rovers of pre-war size.

The base at the island is not big enough yet to produce any units, including infantry with the small population there. Don't want any heavey military combat at that island, except a few platoon size units combat thought, after i bring in the Alien Center to the story which will begin a race to reach it.

anyway, no more Overpowering! and do edit post Cyber to match with base on the reality i mentioned

-LordLMP

[Sprayber]

To be honest about the cult of war. I was going to let them die off down there. And have some inside Sparta to start causing trouble about the time Helzburg/halzburg made his move for Sparta Command. Kessel does not like the cult. He is totally against the very concept of the cult being put over the regular soldier and milita men. My original concept was for Kessel to lead a coup against Santiago for that reason and for a few others. But LMP already had a story going so I took that route instead. In fact he would rather see them exterminated if he could get his way. There was going to be some news of executions to be leaked to the outside. And now since there is going to be this big land rush for the Alien Center the cult of war base becomes extreamly important for the Spartans. Maybe enough to temporary "allow" Blast Rifle Crag to stay the way it is . I think that makes it much more important that the factions that already have bases there all be controlled. I know it's hard to get people though.

LMP: What is the plan for Blast Rifle Crag? I thought maybe Pontas would announce that it would become a free city along the lines of the Planatery Council Base. Like a place where everyone would be welcome. And a demilitrized base except for the defense. Of course the Spartans won't be terribly pleased at this. But really can't do anything about it with the situation in the south and eventually the land rush. Pontas would perfer this than living under the Alliance. A subtle difference maybe, but in international politics small differences can sometimes mean a lot. Maybe even a place to meet for future diplomatic events. Any concerns or objections?

No problems with it I originally planned to take control of Janissary Rock, but Cyber moved the Blockade Guardians there so shifted my focus to Blast Rifle Crag, which is better. Take a base where they can base the Battle Dragons and the Gaian Reinforcements, so providing the Spartans a two front war. But do to the cease-fire, Svensgaard or the Gaians cannot follow up on their plan. But because the Base declared independence, gives even more reason to have a Chiron Alliance presence to support them.

Do as you wish with Blast Rifle Crag Spray If the peace talks is finish and a DMZ is established, the Gaians would leave for the DMZ to patrol it... which either requires them to cut through Spartan territory or get back in their transports/IoDs to down to Haven City, with Pirate escort of course I will only bring the Alien Center thing after peace talks and the IPF/Embassy ideas are delt with.

-LordLMP

[Cyber]

Okay, i´ll edit the post and the troop size... its just that nowhere was mentioned about the bloody bunker battles( and they should definately been atleast mentioned!) before you told me, so I assumed the Pk´s had for some reason left the CoW´s alone. Is 1.5 CoW units small enough?
About the western army, i definately remember placing them into War Outpost and they should still be there. One of the motives placing the army there was to guard that PK forces would not circle the Spartan attacking armies and attack War Outpost, thus cutting the supply lines and ending the campaign( and because of antiminds fungusfield near the base )

Guardian, am I sensing anger? If that is the case, I apologise for angering you. Don´t take this so darn seriously.

Yes, I f*cked up the Spartans integrity, and if I wanted, I could have f*cked up the PK´s integrity real good too( or maybe they would have all been slaves now, if I hadn´t taken them away to that island). Instead, i created the Chiron Alliance with them, and your damn Pro-War PKs.
The point is, this is just a game, and every player has the right to do whatever he/she wants with a faction. Am I not right? So, chill out...

About the "atrocity" rover, yes the PK´s won´t believe it and will start denying about knowing any of this, but don´t think that every other faction will support the PK´s in this. Afterall, the Spartans are people who live for the military, so they would never do this to their own soldiers. Even the other factions should figure out this. Not all other factions share the same view as PK´s...


[This message has been edited by Cyber (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Guardian]

Yes, you did sense some anger back there, and no, I really shouldn't be angry about a game, but it is kind of annoying when one player keeps acting as if everyone else has to follow rules, but he can just go about doing whatever the heck he feels like... Maybe it's not intended that way, but that's the impression I keep getting.

As for the "evidence" in regards to the "atrocity" rover... there is no evidence!
All you've got is that a rover came in with a truckload of mutilated bodies and that it had a PK flag on it, which could have been placed there by ANYBODY! The Spartans can't prove squat.
I'm not saying nobody's going to ask any questions at all, but it's not like everybody's going to freak out and say "look what those horrible evil Peacekeepers did to the nice, innocent, honorable Spartans!!!" Not in a million years and not on this side of the universe!! Yes, it will probably come out eventually that it was a PK unit who sent that rover, but in any case, this is an isolated incident and nothing more. Hence, it is light years away from "proving once and for all what hypocrites the Peacekeepers are" and all that cr@p. Of course, this is no excuse for that kind of behavior, but as far as the PK's reputation goes, there's not a lot that could happen which a public investigation and a court martial can't fix. -At least that's my opinion...

Now I'm gonna have to go, so I won't be posting anything in the story today, but I'll try to get somthing in there tomorrow. Going to be a busy weekend, so I might not be back until Monday. Not sure though... Anyway, have a nice weekend!

[DarkCloud]

OOC; Thanks Argonaut; Welcome back Cyber.

Cyber, 1.5 is okay and i have mention the stretch out bunker command warfare in OOC and in discussion. both or one of them...anyway. Better to explained what they have been up too, as that area of the defence lines as been ignored :P and the PKs won't just stand there and don't do anything, or expect the CoWs to take a single bunker and stay there :P they were sent to keep the defence line north of Haven City busy after all, and Guardian indirectly mentioned in the game about it once or twice or more.

Darkcloud, Zarya-Sunrise as already been placed since we restarted the game to 2180, and have mention it and have posted the coordinates. Since you haven't said anything against it then, i left it there. Cyber got some Spartan Probe teams to University via Zarya-Sunrise, and you haven't complained then. Since the existance of Zarya-Sunrise has been mentioned in the game, can't simply say it doesn't exist anymore, sorry Can say its a small base, where the core bases are the big ones. Zarya-Sunrise has a strategical value, navally and economicly(trade). Also the closest University base to the Hive and the Planetary Council. And some Research experiments would be better off doing away from most of the population too...especially Retroviral Engineering for example Other small bases are to keep watch on the Data Angels, isolated communities for the retired scientists, or hidaways and so on :P

-LordlMP