Death of Capitalism - Page 3

Inverse Icarus · May 14, 2003, 18:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
don't set ridiculous deadlines, monkspider... you can't predict the future and when you're wrong, you'll just be mocked. I can't even count the number of "end of the world" deadlines and sh1t that have been proved wrong.

but those predictions didnt have people actively plotting to destroy the world.

Sava · May 14, 2003, 18:30

Quote:

if women were nationalized and distributed by the state, the world would be a better place.

Inverse Icarus · May 14, 2003, 18:32

think of it sava. THINK OF IT.

and if you're one of those "communists are lazy because they dont have anything to work for" make women the only capitialistic currency. the harder you work, the more / better lookign women you get.

I HAVE SOLVED ALL PROBLEMS WITH COMMUNISM.

Sava · May 14, 2003, 18:33

Uber.... you are a genius

Inverse Icarus · May 14, 2003, 18:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
Uber.... you are a genius

thank you, thank you, thank you.

let the revolution begin. round up all the women and bring them to my domicile for testing / distribution.

Sava · May 14, 2003, 18:35

I'll bring the beer!

monkspider · May 14, 2003, 18:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
don't set ridiculous deadlines, monkspider... you can't predict the future and when you're wrong, you'll just be mocked. I can't even count the number of "end of the world" deadlines and sh1t that have been proved wrong.

Oh the world is not ending, not by any means! In fact, we are on the threshold of a much improved world. Anyway, If I am wrong, I give you permission to refer to me as Apolyton's official jag bag.

Here's what we can look forward to for the rest of the year, I have mentioned this in other threads, but I guess for those who haven't followed too closely, I will repeat.
Things will turn sour around August 10th-20th, something about bio weapons or radiation, and nations that were once strong allies turning against us.
Then as result of all of these , the economy tanks pretty bad around mid to late October.
Sorry I can't be more specific, but watch Bush closely over the following months.

Kidicious · May 14, 2003, 18:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
But currency doesn't have any inherent value. Once it is established it does, but alone it is worth nothing.

The barter system was in place for so long because you were trading actual resources with intrinsic values. Then we used currency as a substitute for valuable resources.

And now currency has its own value, it having been around a long enough time.

But the US dollar got its value from the huuuuge amounts of gold it has sitting around.

There are three types of value.

1)exchange value
2)labor value
3)utility value

The dollar has 1 and 3, but that has nothing to do with whether it is backed up by gold or not. The amount of gold in govt vaults has nothing to do with the value of the dollar.

Sava · May 14, 2003, 19:00

I dunno monky-poo, the biggest change that would happen is Bush getting booted out of office... and then business as usual

Lorizael · May 14, 2003, 19:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Kidicious

There are three types of value.

1)exchange value
2)labor value
3)utility value

The dollar has 1 and 3, but that has nothing to do with whether it is backed up by gold or not. The amount of gold in govt vaults has nothing to do with the value of the dollar.

Can you explain to me what those three values actually mean? I will admit my knowledge of economics is rather meager.

Oerdin · May 14, 2003, 19:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Kidicious
The dollar has 1 and 3, but that has nothing to do with whether it is backed up by gold or not. The amount of gold in govt vaults has nothing to do with the value of the dollar.

Technically the dollar is no longer backed by gold and it's value is based upon the "good faith and Credit of the United States", however, part of that good credit (and the reasons people have faith in that credit) most certainly has to do with the fact that the US government has the largest stock pile of gold in the world.

Sava · May 14, 2003, 19:25

and the faith that we could nuke the world 30 times over...

JCG · May 14, 2003, 19:28

The death of capitalism doesn't necessarily imply the (re)birth of communism though.

Inverse Icarus · May 14, 2003, 19:28

Quote:

Originally posted by JCG
The death of capitalism doesn't necessarily imply the (re)birth of communism though.

without whitey keeping us down, we pinkos can keep the rest of you down!

Odin · May 14, 2003, 20:58

The US Dollar is a fiat currency, which means that it does not have any material value, it is simply "stored production" of a person's labor, basically like a reusable check. The reason this is better than a gold-backed currency is that the value of fiat currency grows with the economy, not with the amount of gold a country has. My question is why do we need a supply of gold in Fort Knox if it has nothing to do with the curency?

Kidicious · May 14, 2003, 23:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael

Can you explain to me what those three values actually mean? I will admit my knowledge of economics is rather meager.

Labor value is the amount of work required to get or produce something. Utility value is the how much use you get out of something. Exchange value is what you can trade for it.

The thing about value is that it can mean all sorts of things. If you back up all the currency with gold then the exchange value of the currency will be equal to a constant amount of gold, but if you don't back it up with anything it doesn't mean its value is zero, because people still use it and you can still use it to buy gold or anything else.

Kidicious · May 14, 2003, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Odin
The US Dollar is a fiat currency, which means that it does not have any material value, it is simply "stored production" of a person's labor, basically like a reusable check. The reason this is better than a gold-backed currency is that the value of fiat currency grows with the economy, not with the amount of gold a country has. My question is why do we need a supply of gold in Fort Knox if it has nothing to do with the curency?

They can use that gold as a reserve the same way we have reserves of other currencies. We can sell that gold and buy dollars if we want to strengthen the dollar. So in a way it does back up our currency, but not the way it used to.

PLATO · May 14, 2003, 23:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
I also think that in order to protect "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" the government needs to provide health care and education. It should be done in a high quality, but efficient, manner.

"government needs to provide" and "high quality, but efficient manner" do not go together under any system that I know of. While Universal Health care is a great idea, I have yet to see any system proposed that would be of higher quality and efficiency than the one we have now (which is, admittedly, pretty inefficient in many ways). The "capitalist" reward given to medical professionals have caused Western health care to be far beyond anything that the world has ever known.

Quote:

No... it means, the more free the society, the more likely it will tend towards the system more culturally suitable. Or are you not paying attention to Iraq? If the US simply killed Saddam and left the people to choose their own system without controls, they'd choose an Islamic system.

What difference does it make if the system is Islamic? Perhaps what you are trying to say is "Repressive"?
My contention is that the more free a society, the more it will tend toward capitalism. I don't believe that capitalism is culturally dependent. A free Islamic state is just as likely to develop capitalism as any other IMHO.