The US should switch to metric - Page 4

St Leo · May 15, 2003, 22:49

Should we try "people should stop smoking crack" next?

People smoking crack aren't hurting me. People using Imperial are.

Skanky Burns · May 15, 2003, 22:52

People stealing from me to pay for their crack are hurting me. Some bastard broke into my fiance's car last night looking for money.

Urban Ranger · May 15, 2003, 23:13

Push Howard to legalise drugs. The bottom will fall out of the market.

Skanky Burns · May 15, 2003, 23:30

Nah, I'll just put an alarm on her car. My car which was parked right next to hers didn't get touched.

TCO · May 16, 2003, 02:17

Why haven't you Euros gotten time metricized. Hours and minutes are so archaic.

alva · May 16, 2003, 02:24

Wouldn't mind if they did. You're forgetting about days/weeks etc. btw

Skanky Burns · May 16, 2003, 02:39

Because time isn't easily forced into base 10 units. But for time < 1 second it is all metric.

el freako · May 16, 2003, 04:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Because time isn't easily forced into base 10 units. But for time < 1 second it is all metric.

What an absurd statement.

So how come you can't divide a day by 10 eh?

What's really amazing is that we still use this ancient babylonian system of time measurement that is around 4000 years old. (actually considering the age and spread of the system maybe it's not that surprising)

MikeH · May 16, 2003, 04:56

A day is 86400 seconds, 1/10 of a day is 8640 seconds.

There are very good reasons for having the second as the scientific unit of time. It's just unfortunate that the earth doesn't rotate in a convenient number of seconds.

VJ · May 16, 2003, 05:05

If you have problems, try swatch-beats.

VJ · May 16, 2003, 05:22

Quote:

A day is 86400 seconds

...so year is approximately 31 556 736 seconds, then?

MikeH · May 16, 2003, 05:29

Yes, I always use pi * 10^6 as an approximation.

Urban Ranger · May 16, 2003, 05:37

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
Why haven't you Euros gotten time metricized. Hours and minutes are so archaic.

It has already. The second is the SI unit for time. Bigger units are just retained for the sake of convenience.

VJ · May 16, 2003, 05:40

Quote:

Yes, I always use pi * 10^6 as an approximation.

Thanks, that'll come handy during the following physics exams...

MikeH · May 16, 2003, 05:43

Yeah, it's really handy to remember that if you are doing order of magnitude estimates (and sometimes it conveniently cancels!)

Harovan · May 16, 2003, 05:50

Days and years are the true feeled time units. There are not many things I do per second (not even breathe), but a lot I do daily and yearly. Unfortunately, both are variables due to rotation anomalies and orbit disturbances, and a matter of definition anyway. Both are the time for a rotation/revolution, but relative to what? Every possible coordinate system is moving as well, like other stars (own movement), the center of the galaxy (moving within and with the Local group), the astronomic poles (precession) etc. etc.

So days and years are not very convenient to serve as basic time unit. Since they aren't (not even nearly) decimal multiples of the SI unit second, it would be a mess to work with kiloseconds and megaseconds.

It would be acceptable, to break the mean astronomical day or the tropical year in decimals, like the day = 10 or 20 new hours per 100 new minutes and 100 new seconds each. But due to the variability of their length, any re-definition of the second would drift away after a time and this way be useless.

So I think we have to live with the hexagesimal/duodecimal system for a while more.

Dauphin · May 16, 2003, 08:28

Are Stardates decimal by any chance?

Dare I ask a Trekkie how that is supposed to work.

Harovan · May 16, 2003, 09:22

There is a kind of date (Julian Day, JD), which is indeed expressed in a number and decimals of day. The 5th decimal is about a second. It is widely used among Astronoms, because it makes it easy to calculate with dates (and especially differences of them, like how many days between Apr 29, 1986 and Feb 13, 1997?). It is used to compute orbits and such, too, and the epochs of ephemerids are usually given in round JD's.

Rogan Josh · May 16, 2003, 09:39

We should really be counting in base 12, since 12 is divisible by 1 (obviously!), 2, 3, 4 and 6. Must better than 10's puny 1, 2 and 5. It would make mental arithmetic much easier.

We even have words for them. We could go from 'twelve' to 'oneteen', 'twoteen' etc and have 'twenty-eleven' and so on. 'Eleventy-four' sounds cool

Urban Ranger · May 16, 2003, 10:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
We should really be counting in base 12, since 12 is divisible by 1 (obviously!), 2, 3, 4 and 6. Must better than 10's puny 1, 2 and 5. It would make mental arithmetic much easier.

Base-60 is even better. It's divisible by 2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15,20, and 30. So there

Az · May 16, 2003, 10:19

Ok, what would be the digits? rules:

1) must be easily presentable on calculators.
2) must not be A,B,C.

I don't think that base 12 would be much of a problem, IIRC, babylonians used base 6, albeit their math was much more primitive.

Panag · May 16, 2003, 10:26

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
Why haven't you Euros gotten time metricized. Hours and minutes are so archaic.

hi ,

next you gonna want them on sub days aswell , ...

now that would be fun

have a nice day

TCO · May 16, 2003, 10:33

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
Wouldn't mind if they did. You're forgetting about days/weeks etc. btw

Nah, I thought of them. The day has an intrinsic value as a unit. So does the year. So we are kinda stuck with that 365 day years with leapdays except on centuries yadayada. But the hours, minutes, weeks, and maybe months could get reworked.

I think one of the big problems is that the second is a defining unit for a lot of physical quantities and for the metric system itself. So it would be hard to change it even though it makes sense. I do think we should get rid of AM/PM times and have something with no chance for confusion.

St Leo · May 16, 2003, 10:46

IIRC, the metric system came from the French enlightenment, and as such I come from the country which is most used to the metric system.

I never once encountered a non-metric unit in my eleven years in Latvia.

I think one of the big problems is that the second is a defining unit for a lot of physical quantities and for the metric system itself. So it would be hard to change it even though it makes sense. I do think we should get rid of AM/PM times and have something with no chance for confusion.

What's wrong with:
3:00 AM = 3:00
9:00 AM = 9:00
3:00 PM = 15:00
9:00 PM = 21:00
?
As long as you say "fifteen thirty-six" for 15:36 instead of that military craziness, it remains clear.

TCO · May 16, 2003, 10:47

I haven't done the math, but something like a 10 hour day with 100minutes each of which has 100-seconds would be a nice system. We could use all the digits in a time. 9:78:66 would be a legitimate time. HAving 10 hours instead of 24 would eliminate this silly AM/PM thing. (You could try millitary time, but some people refuse to do that. Better to change it all.)

TCO · May 16, 2003, 10:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

It has already. The second is the SI unit for time. Bigger units are just retained for the sake of convenience.

There is no fundamental reason for the second to exist. It's just a part of the MKS system and people don't want to mess with it. Silly metric people clinging to an anachronism. I don't care if we pull this prop out and have to change everything else.

TCO · May 16, 2003, 10:53

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeH
A day is 86400 seconds, 1/10 of a day is 8640 seconds.

There are very good reasons for having the second as the scientific unit of time. It's just unfortunate that the earth doesn't rotate in a convenient number of seconds.

No. I don't think there is any fundamental reason for the second. It's just that the other pieces of the house of cards are linked to it. I'd feel better defining a scientific "day" as an earth rotation. (yeah, I know it's slowing down.) Than make a second 1/100 of a minute which is 1/100 of an hour of which we have ten. Just change all the Newtons and stuff if you need to.

TCO · May 16, 2003, 10:56

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
IIRC, the metric system came from the French enlightenment, and as such I come from the country which is most used to the metric system.

I never once encountered a non-metric unit in my eleven years in Latvia.

I think one of the big problems is that the second is a defining unit for a lot of physical quantities and for the metric system itself. So it would be hard to change it even though it makes sense. I do think we should get rid of AM/PM times and have something with no chance for confusion.

What's wrong with:
3:00 AM = 3:00
9:00 AM = 9:00
3:00 PM = 15:00
9:00 PM = 21:00
?
As long as you say "fifteen thirty-six" for 15:36 instead of that military craziness, it remains clear.

1. They won't do it. Better to change the whole hour system so they have no chance to backslide. I want 10 hours in the day.

2. The military silliness is just like you say. We say fifteen, thirty-six.

Panag · May 16, 2003, 11:04

hi ,

just a Q , why change something that has been around for so long , ....

as for months and year , try the Jewish calender , .....

GP , what about sub days , ....

18 hours to a day

have a nice day

Urban Ranger · May 16, 2003, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
There is no fundamental reason for the second to exist. It's just a part of the MKS system and people don't want to mess with it. Silly metric people clinging to an anachronism. I don't care if we pull this prop out and have to change everything else.

Fundamental reason? What fundamental reason? These measurement units are all artificial constructions. Why use the metre or kilogram? We could have some other units instead.