Science Thread

Drogue · May 15, 2003, 07:04

While we have decided to go for Centauri Ecology first, I did quite a bit of planning to see what else we would like. The way I do this, is set target techs, in order, and then build in what I need for them.

This is just an idea, but if it was me, this is what I would do for the CyCon. We start with Information Networks and Applied Physics BTW.

Targets
Centauri Ecology - Formers, Weather Paradigm
Industrial Automation - Crawlers, Hab Complex
Doc Flex - Ships!
Nonlinear Math - Impact (4) weapons to attack PEACE
Gene Splicing - Nutrient restrictions lifted
Ecological Engineering - Terraforming and mineral restrictions, especially if we don't have the Weather Paradigm
Environmental Economics - Tree Farms and energy restrictions
Intellectual Integrity - The Citizen's Defense Force
High Energy Chemistry - Plasma (3) armour, ability to defend ourselves well
Synthetic Fossil Fuels - Missile (6) weapons, the ability to attack well
Cyberethics - Knowledge SE setting
Applied Relativity - The Supercolider
Pre-Sentient Algoristhms - The Hunter Seeker Algorithm
Fusion Power - Fusion Reactor

My reasoning (all just my opinions):
Ind. Auto. is needed ASAP to grow, and as others have said, it should be a priority.
Gene Splicing means we can grow, which is hard with our growth penalty. We should have Weather Paradigm by then, which would give us consensers, and we want to be able to crawl more than 2 nuts.
Eco. Eng. removes the mineral restrictions, allowing us to reap the benefits of mines and boreholes. It also let's us build them, if we missed the Weather Paradigm, which we really should go for IMHO.
H.E.C. is needed for defense, as we could come up against the Hive or someone relatively soon, and we need to be able to defend our bases.
Synth. Foss. Fuels is important for attack. If we want to sue tech steal to any effect, we need a few decent usits soon, and this would give us that. I know it takes time out from our research goals, but in conquering, it coudl help us research quicker.
Intellectual Integrity gives us the Citizen's Defense Force, important for keeping captured bases, and saving many minerals from all our bases.
Cyberethics gives us the Knowledge SE setting, which is much needed for us. We need to beat the UoP!
App. Relativity gives us the Supercolider, which we will need if we are to out tech the UoP. Whoever get's this could run the game, so this could be crucial.
Pre-Sentient Algorithms stops probe attacks, which would give us big advantage against AI with the Googlie probe tweak, and humans who use it a lot. Also would really kill the UoP, who need this.
Fusion Power speaks for itself. The Fusion reactor gives us military supremacy, and is very important and efficient.
A reason for specialising like this is that it also means that we get advanced tech early on, and will likely be able to steal or trade for the earlier techs, that other factions will have.

The reason Biogenetics isn't on there, for the Human Genome Project, is because it will be straight after Ind. Auto. because it goes into getting Gene Splicing.

Thus, the entire list to Fusion Power goes like this:

Techs
Industrial Base
Industrial Economics
Industrial Automation
Doc Flex
Nonlinear Math
Ethical Calculus
Gene Splicing
Ecological Engineering
Environmental Economics
Doctrine Loyalty
Intellectual Integrity
High Energy Chemistry
Synthetic Fossil Fuels
Cyberethics
Polymorphic Software
Advanced Subatomic Theory
Optical Computers
Superconductor
Applied Relativity
Doctrine Flexibility
Adaptive Doctrine
Advanced Military Algorithms
Pre-Sentient Algorithms
Fusion Power

This is just an idea. Please discuss.

Edit: Has been updated.

Edit2: Ecological Engineering and Environmental Economics added (restrictions lifting really helps with techs when using boreholes).

Edit3: Doc Flex added and updated.

Edit4: Non Math added and updated.

Maniac · May 15, 2003, 09:09

Well, good general plan, but most of the time I just see what happens in-game and decide on priorities based on that.

For now, I'll just stick to going to IndAut, with picking up CentEco, Biogen and SocPsych along the road.

Drogue · May 15, 2003, 09:20

Is getting Biogen and Soc Psych a little earlier worth postponing Ind Auto for another 2 techs? I would say get Ind Auto first, and then do get Biogen and Soc Psych.

Maniac · May 15, 2003, 09:34

I don't know.

Most of the time I try to go straight for IndAut as well, but usually that doesn't work as my desired techs aren't up for picking, so I'm forced to pick another second-choice tech anyway. So most of the time I'm not postponing IndAut. Only my personal experience of course.

It's also related to which strategy we will use to get our first SP. Usually I dedicate one of my first most mineral-rich bases to build an SP, right after I've rushed a rec tanks (for the +1 min) and a rec commons (to be able to grow without problems, thus have more minerals). For this strategy you need Biogen and SocPsych, and usually I'm able to complete my first SP without (m)any extra crawler rushes. I guess another strategy is just to research IndAut without any possible delays, then build a bunch of crawlers, and rush a project in one turn. I'm not familiar with that tactic, so I can't really tell what's best.

Drogue · May 15, 2003, 09:45

I do your method for SPs usually, however I have seen others better than me play the other way far mroe effectively. Thus I would sugest going for Ind Auto ASAP. While the tech is available, chosing one that doesn't help get Ind Auto would be postponing it. If that tech was not available, then yes, I would agree to choose it. Thus I wold say Ind Base or Plan Net. Should I poll it, or just hope someone else comes for their opinion? Can we reach a compromise. I want Ind Base, you want Soc Psy, so how about going for Plan Net?

Maniac · May 15, 2003, 12:32

Our HQ would make a great SP base.

2-2-2 from the monolith, 3-2-2 when we build a forest on the nutrient bonus, another bonus from the mineral bonus tile (+3?), and +2 mins from the base tile if we build a rec tanks. At size 3 our capital would produce 9 mins yearly. With a planned economy, we could finish a SP in twenty turns, less with crawler rushes. This enforces my idea that we could complete a SP faster by researching the prerequisite techs for rec tanks and rec commons first and rushing those facilities after we switch to SP building, than by researching to IndAut straight away and use crawlers.

Drogue · May 15, 2003, 12:42

That is very true, it is a great SP base. However, I disagree with the last part. If we don't bother building a rec tanks, it takes only 22.5 (rounded to 23) turns. It will take us 5 turns (IIRC) to build a rec tanks, thus we get the SP quicker if we build that first. Also, we might build it before we hit 3 people, and then we don't need the rec commons. Thus if we go for Ind Auto, we will be able to crawler rush it, and have it far earlier than if we postpone that, do not crawler rush and build those facilities. Even if we do get Biogen first, it may be quicker to get the SP first, and then build the rec tanks.

Maniac · May 15, 2003, 12:44

I'll try to make some calculations when I have the save.

Drogue · May 16, 2003, 16:57

After playing a game with the CyCon today, I think we should put Nonlinear Math up there somewhere, since we can get a lot with relatively early tech steals.

What do people (especially Book Upsilon Mu, the Science Adviser) think of this plan? What would you change? Should we have a plan at all? I think a plan is logical, and this is what I use, but I need to know what others think of it. Thank you

Method · May 16, 2003, 17:40

i'd rather stay on the build path and only move to a more warlike tech path if we know there's another faction nearby. thus:

centauri ecology
industrial base
industrial economics
planetary networks
industrial automation
biogenetics
social psych

the two after the bold tech can be inserted in case one of those techs is unavailable

Drogue · May 16, 2003, 18:16

So the same as I had in my first post?

I agree about the military actually. Although having an impact rover to go out early and explore, and take any base it finds could be useful

Although maybe no so much as getting to Gene Splicing quicker.

Method · May 16, 2003, 19:32

no, i switched industrial economics and planetary networks

Maniac · May 16, 2003, 20:08

TKG, would you really research IndBase (synthmetal) first while we can research PlaNets (planned, probe...) now?

Method · May 16, 2003, 20:15

yes i would. though perhaps as the cyborgs the strategy of going FM ASAP isn't going to work as well. planned would seem like just as good a system with our effic bonus. whatever.

Drogue · May 16, 2003, 20:58

Personally, though I would go FM eventually, I would start of Planned. We need the Growth, and the ability to explore, at the start. Maybe FM in 60 or 70 years? That is what I would do.

Edit: Please vote in the Tech Poll for our first tech to research.

Drogue · May 26, 2003, 19:44

Have updated. Will hold new poll. What do you think? I've play tested this a bit, and it seems good. The thing I noticed though is that as soon as I start going to war, getting nonlinear math early, I gain much power. We are a great force to attack, especially pre-FM/Wealth. That is a different subject though.

Edit: If we cannot get Cent. Eco. again next time, what should we research? I would say Ind. Base, Ind. Econ. and then Ind. Auto., since then we get Synthmetal, FM and crawlers

Obviously inserting Cent. Eco. as soon as we can

Drogue · June 3, 2003, 07:20

Have updated again, forgot environmental economics (energy restrictions and tree farms) last time

Will poll for this as a basis, and for the next tech.

Googlie · June 3, 2003, 09:42

And given that Random Events are possible, don't ignore building the Special Project the Planetary Energy Grid

It's available after Adaptive Economics whose prereqs are Industrial Economics (you are going there anyway) and Field Modulation (after Prog Psych) which as a by-product gives 3-res armor, better than Plasma 'cos of its +25% against mindworms, etc. (and is cumulative with trance giving awesome base defenders)

With "Stockpile Energy" being permitted, this bonus gets doubled with an Energy Bank in a base.

So if your science beeline gets stalled at any time, consider Prog Psych. Field Modulation and Adaptive Economics as possible alternatives

Just a thought

G.

Drogue · June 3, 2003, 10:10

That is a good idea. I had thought about it (this tree was based on the one I used with SMAC) so I might take our plasma, and put prog psych, field mod and adapt. econ. in instead. Or usually the AI go for field mod early, so we could trade for it, and get the planetary energy grid. Not only does it save much production time, it saves 1 Ec per turn per base we want to build an energy bank in

Would be useful!

Method · June 3, 2003, 16:34

aw, crap. i always forget about the PEG. it's really a great thing to have, i just forgot about it again. anyways,

to adaptive economics

Cedayon · June 3, 2003, 17:45

I'm still worried the drones and/or hive are going to snatch up all the good SPs, those industry bonuses can be brutal. We'll have to get a lead by getting the tech earlier than they.

Corellion · June 3, 2003, 21:38

I agree with Cedayon... the way we're going to survive in this world is to get the tech lead and keep it... at all costs. We shouldn't let our techs out (without very good reason), and especially not to the PUT. We need to exploit this advantage for all we've got. If the Hive attacks us with their hoards of impact rovers, we'll needlejet them to their graves. If the drones try to snatch the WP from us, we'll laugh, because we were 1 turn away when they finally traded for the tech. If the pirates attempt to destroy our navy, we'll surprise them when our subs sneak past their defences. And if Miriam attacks... we pound her scout patrols with our gravships!

Cedayon · June 4, 2003, 01:51

And if Googlie's uber-daemon-locusts show up?

Googlie · June 4, 2003, 02:00

Even Gods are not immune to double posts .......

Googlie · June 4, 2003, 02:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Cedayon
And if Googlie's uber-daemon-locusts show up?

LOL - you have more to fear from Roze's flotillas of cruiser probes - and she'll gang-probe you as well, with more than one probeteam visiting any exposed bases (in the playtest - not as the CC, though - I had a probe in a coastal base and was feeling quite smug, then I got visited by 3 cruisers - the first one took out my probe, the second took a tech and the third took the base.

Had to pick my jaw up from the floor after that one.

(And I never did manage to infiltrate Roze, from any of the factions)

G.

DeathByTheSword · June 4, 2003, 04:59

this roze fucntion needs to be dealt with....quickly

Drogue · July 2, 2003, 16:49

Has been updated and Doc Flex added to compensate for current conditions.

Corellion · July 3, 2003, 02:50

This gets the Internal Affairs Seal of Approval...

...for now.

Drogue · August 12, 2003, 06:05

Has been updated for Non Math, since, IMHO, we need impact foils ASAP. If the Internal Affairs Function starts a thread for his office, then I will formally request that he switch our Science towards this end.

Let us be proper 'Borgs - If we don't get what we want from diplomacy, we simply take it

Maniac · August 12, 2003, 07:23

I just noticed: where is Doctrine: Air Power in that list? In all PBEMs I've played D:AP is researched quite early, so it would be quite inprudent to be the only one not having it.