New Eight Civs analysis: just the facts ma'am - Page 3

dexters · May 18, 2003, 19:50

Quote:

Originally posted by The Templar

I know that and you know that. I was thinking of Age of Kings (an old RTS game) where trebuchets blew the cannon units away (of course, they might have been very primitive cannon units). I just don't see much of a role for these In the game as it stands. If there is a glaring gap in this game, it remains in the Swordsman line. There needs to be a unit between medieval infantry (and longbowmen) and guerillas. Guerillas should be a modern unit (look at that assault rifle!) and a lot tougher.

Unfortunatelly Civ 3 is NOT age of kings. Cannons were technologically further down the road from Trebuchets. They were the technology that replaced the Trebuchets.Trebuchet dominance ended with the introduction of Cannon.

I suspect Trebuchet would be a 2 range catapult.

Getting back on topic, I really hope Firaxis cut back on the Euro civs. They've already added 3 in PTW, and the ratio of Euro to non Euro civs is ridiculous. More Civs from Africa, Americas, and Asia are needed.

Jethro83 · May 18, 2003, 20:10

Quote:

Originally posted by TOUGHUSAGUY
THE ONLY CIVS SHOULD BE WESTERN CIVS CAUSE THATS WHERE THE IMPORTANT THINGS INVENTS AND HAPPENED IN!

Ugh! That would be a nightmare on a real-world map if only western civs were included. On most world maps, Lisbon would overlap Madrid, Amsterdam and Brussels would overlap each other, Paris and Berlin. And I could go on and on like that. A list that is purely western belongs in user-made scenarios. Not the actual unedited game.

Anyway, where's the variety in that? And why does the real-world time-line really matter in a game where your actions, and the actions of your CPU or human opponents write a FICTIONAL timeline in a FICTIONAL world?

While great achievements should play a part in deciding which civs go in and which get axed, it shouldn't really be that high up in the list of criteria. Geographical distribution and cultural diversity should be of much higher priority in the criteria list.

So I say its a good thing that the Americas are no longer forsaken, and there won't be that huge a vaccuum in South America. I can only hope that Africa and Oceania will also get a few civs as well.

And besides, to say that the only important achievements were made in the western hemisphere is kinda short-sighted. The east has their share of glorious achievements, and pivotal world events as well.

As for the trebuchet, I don't think it will be a unique unit that replaces anything. I simply believe its going to be a regular unit available between the catapult and the cannon. Perhaps it will require Engineering or Invention to build.

dexters · May 18, 2003, 20:24

Here here lord Azrael.

Louis XXIV · May 18, 2003, 22:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Zero
Someone said way before that offensive spearmen would be a useless UU because of babylon bowmen.

I disagree. There would be alot of difference.

first the upgrade path differs. Second, your research strategy differs as well. And third, even if UU is exactly the same, if s=civ traits are different from babylon, you would still face a civ with different strategy, so I wouldnt mind having another 2/2/1 stat unit.

Also, Just IMO, but I think whoever is industrial/exp is gonna really rock. Unless they give that civ a UU thats worse than the F-15.... Americans are a pretty good civ "w/o a UU". Imagine if they have a viable UU.....

Trait combos that havent been doubled yet... Im guessing these are what the 8 civs are gonna try to be, cause having 8 more mil/exp or mil/rel civ would suck.

Trait Combo / Civs that currently have the trait

In/Exp (America) - probably would be my favorite
Mil/Com (Rome)
Mil/Ind (China) - beating china would be pretty hard
Sci/Exp (Russia) - If they have swordmen UU it would rock
Com/Exp(England) - Com/Exp trait civ with land UU? That could be nice
Mil/Sci (Germany) - Anicent UU on this combo would be NICE
Rel/Ind (Egypt) - somewhat later UU than egypt and builders would love it

I see your point about different upgrade lines

I agree completely that those traits will be the traits for the new civs, probably:

Ind, Exp Inca, UU-Incan Scout (Not sure what they do with this, but it will probably suck)

Mil, Com ???

Mil, Ind ???

Sci, Exp Sumerians. UU- Endiku Warrior

Com, Exp ???

Mil, Sci Hittites UU-Not sure, they used Chariots

Rel, Ind ???

Sci, Rel Mayans UU-Javalineer 3.1.1 replacement of Archer

That's my guesses, I could fill in the other civs if I had info

I could guess Dutch/Portugal for Com, Exp and Israel for Rel, Ind
But I can't be certain

The Templar · May 19, 2003, 00:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Louis XXIV

Sci, Exp Sumerians. UU- Endiku Warrior

Com, Exp ???

The Sumerians were more builders than expanders (what with their canals and all). My guess would be Ind+Sci or Ind+Rel - they were quite religous after all.

Panag · May 19, 2003, 07:43

hi ,

with eight new civ and allready 24 in the box we are bound to see some new traits

have a nice day

Louis XXIV · May 19, 2003, 11:19

Quote:

Originally posted by The Templar

The Sumerians were more builders than expanders (what with their canals and all). My guess would be Ind+Sci or Ind+Rel - they were quite religous after all.

I know

But I think they will have 1 of the 8 remaining possibile combos

MS, MC, SE, IE, SR, RI, CE

The Sumerians seemed to be Scientific. I didn't think they were Religeous. But if they are, RI seems to be a good possibility (although I figure they should start with Bronze Working)

The Templar · May 19, 2003, 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Louis XXIV

The Sumerians seemed to be Scientific. I didn't think they were Religeous. But if they are, RI seems to be a good possibility (although I figure they should start with Bronze Working)

The entire Sumerian society was filled with religious ceremony and ritual. It might have just been because they were such an early civilization. But yeah, Ind Sci looks out since that combo is saturated.

Panag, it certainly would be nice if they did add some new traits. Maybe Agricultural - allowing the civ to grow food on anything (like the Mayans and the Incas). I don't see it happening though (then again, I thought there wouldn't be a new XP).

RobC · May 19, 2003, 18:58

Quote:

Originally posted by DanQ

CIVILIZATION, UNIT, LEADER PUZZLE PIECES
(18 May 2003, 23:10 | Civ3) Word has been received from Master Zen (MZ) that a partial picture of the Civilization III: Conquests puzzle has been successfully researched and pieced together. First, three of the eight new civilizations previously mentioned in press releases issued by developer Firaxis Games are the Incas, the Mayans and the Sumerians. All three peoples` unique units are known: Incan Scout, Mayan Javelin and the Enkidu Warrior respectively. A leader portrait of Mursilis has also been circulating leading to speculation that the identity of a fourth civilization can be said to be known: the Hittites. Gilgamesh is said to be the leader to represent the Sumerians in C3C.

This inforamtion was originally published in this thread on MZ`s MZO Central. - DanQ

Why didn't Dan just link to this thread, where all of this had already been 'puzzled' out?

kring · May 19, 2003, 19:20

Quote:

Originally posted by The Templar

Panag, it certainly would be nice if they did add some new traits. Maybe Agricultural - allowing the civ to grow food on anything (like the Mayans and the Incas). I don't see it happening though (then again, I thought there wouldn't be a new XP).

I agree that it would be nice, but I won't assume that new traits are in the XP without some proof.

Spiffor · May 20, 2003, 05:30

I don't think there will be new traits in this XP, because they'd have otherwise advertised on it already. During the PtW development, Firaxians told us this was a major change in the code, and that it was very unlikely they could do that for PtW (they told about it in summer).

If there were plans to integrate new traits, you can be sure Firaxians would have talked about it already, for it has a good selling value. That's why I really don't hold my breath.

statusperfect · May 20, 2003, 05:44

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

with eight new civ and allready 24 in the box we are bound to see some new traits

have a nice day

rumor control says so?

cheers

Panag · May 20, 2003, 09:55

Quote:

Originally posted by statusperfect

rumor control says so?

cheers

hi ,

six traits aint a lot , ....

not for 32 civs and who knows how many more on the way , .....

rumour control , nope but it could always be asked , ....

have a nice day

History Guy · May 20, 2003, 12:46

My opinion on Hittites...

They should ideally be Militaristic/Industrious. This about fits them. That Ishtar Gate bit should also be ripped out of the leaderhead and replaced with something suitably Hittite.

The UU will most probably be a chariot. Of course, we said that the Carthaginian unit would probably be an elephant unit... As it is, the chariots the Hittites drove would be lighter, cheaper, and without resources. Why? Because they didn't have horses. They used small donkeys!

dexters · May 21, 2003, 03:53

History Guy, you have my admiration.

You sure know your history. Donkey drawn chariots. heh.

Matthijs · May 21, 2003, 06:38

* Starts wondering how it would be in Civ3, Chariots with donkeys

*

Louis XXIV · May 21, 2003, 10:20

If it is 1.1.2 without requiring a resource, it as the same stats as a Jag Warrior, only more cost (I wish Chariots didn't suck so much, they don't give much stat flexibility)

Ribannah · May 21, 2003, 10:23

They'll probably go backwards.

Btw the Fluyt, a possible Dutch UU, is not a Caravel but a 17th century Merchantman.
It could be a Frigate with a cargo hold.

http://www.greatgridlock.net/Sqrigg/shipline.html

Spiffor · May 21, 2003, 10:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
If it is 1.1.2 without requiring a resource, it as the same stats as a Jag Warrior, only more cost (I wish Chariots didn't suck so much, they don't give much stat flexibility)

Maybe it will be a 1.2.2 without tech requirement, which is exactly the same as an impi ? Or maybe Firaxis will make it 1.1.3, making it indeed a formidable scout ?