What can you teach me about Greek Art/Culture?

orange · May 16, 2003, 19:36

I'll be going to Athens, Greece this summer with a few students from college as part of a Study Abroad program. I will be taking 4 courses, one in basic Greek language, another in Ancient Greek and Near East history, one on Greek Art and Architecture, and another on Ancient Greek Drama.

In the history category, I'm set. There's not too much I can do to prepare for the language course (and it's cake) but if you can help there (basic phrases, words, pronunciations) that'll help. What I'd really like to learn more about, as a bit of a primer for this trip, is about aspects of Greek Culture, living, and especially Art.

This is partially because I am interested and always have been, and very timely because of (and it always comes down to this) a girl. Yes, a girl that loves Art History and who I've been talking with a lot lately. She's gorgeous and I want to make babies with her.

So erm yes, enlighten me please

VJ · May 16, 2003, 19:38

Quote:

Yes, a girl that loves Art History and who I've been talking with a lot lately. She's gorgeous and I want to make babies with her.

So erm yes, enlighten me please

Well, THAT explains your new flag...

DAVOUT · May 16, 2003, 19:46

Well, for a start, you have to know that the damn French have broken the arms of the Venus of Milo (yes, both), and that they store the remains in a place named Le Louvre in Paris. On your way back, you could make a stop; it is quite pleasant this year because for some reason there are not many American tourists.

orange · May 16, 2003, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

Well, THAT explains your new flag...

Yup

DAVOUT - Well, i know that. Sorry, won't be able to stop in France

But I'd like to get to the Louvre someday, as well as the other great museums of the world

Agathon · May 16, 2003, 19:52

You'll be doing well if you learn any useful amount of Classical Greek in one course. It isn't like learning a living language - mostly it's an exercise in pain. Don't imagine that you will be able to sit down and read Plato as though it were written in English, there are very few people who can do that.

Your best bet would be to get something like an Oxford Companion to Ancient Greece. Spend the most time on Classical Athens, since that is the most interesting bit. Read a couple of Plato's dialogues to get a feel for the setting. The Apology and Protagoras

But if you want to amuse yourself, get a copy of "Courtesans and Fishcakes". It's a study of drink, food and sex in Classical Athens and makes for an entertaining read. It is one of those rare books by an academic that anyone can read and enjoy.

As for cool Greek phrases, here's one of my favourites from my namesake, the gay tragedian Agathon:

monou gar autou kai theos sterisketai,
ageneta poien hass' ei an pepragmena.

Which means...

For of this alone is God deprived,
to undo that which has already been done.

Boris Godunov · May 16, 2003, 20:01

Two words: Homoerotic Pottery.

orange · May 16, 2003, 20:04

thanks for the suggestions, Agathon

Know anything about Greek Art?

Agathon · May 16, 2003, 20:15

Quote:

Originally posted by orange
thanks for the suggestions, Agathon

Know anything about Greek Art?

Not really. I've enough on my plate with Greek philosophy/science.

The Oxford Companion to Ancient Greece has a reasonable introduction though. Thucydides is also a good read and you can get a reasonable translation of it almost anywhere (it's a nightmare to translate - believe me).

Read Homer too. That will impress the Greeks.

VetLegion · May 16, 2003, 20:23

Well I am don't know much, but if it is to help someone ..

Greeks are big sports fans. Football especially. Compliment Besiktas often. You can't go wrong with saying 'Fenerbahce champion!' to a native either. As for basketball, 'Maccabi Maccabi!' should get you lots of pleasantly surprised faces

orange · May 16, 2003, 20:31

alright VetLegion, do you have me saying "**** [insert hometown hero name here]"?

Agathon - Thucydides done and done. I'll definitely look into your suggestions though

Agathon · May 16, 2003, 20:40

Quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion

Greeks are big sports fans. Football especially. Compliment Besiktas often. You can't go wrong with saying 'Fenerbahce champion!' to a native either. As for basketball, 'Maccabi Maccabi!' should get you lots of pleasantly surprised faces

Maniac · May 16, 2003, 20:45

If you want to have a pleasant night with that girl, I can advise to drink Raki, Ouzo or Mythos.

Below you can see pictures of a few friends, in the process of drinking during my trip to Greece:

orange · May 16, 2003, 20:47

they look like they just got out of a concentration camp

Maniac · May 16, 2003, 20:55

Well the one on the right in the first picture seems a little skinny indeed. Stefaan on the left is normal though in my eyes.

But I heard many Americans are overweight, so I assume they might look skinny to you compared to the average American.

orange · May 17, 2003, 02:13

many Americans are overweight...but they look anorexic...and I don't think that's an "American perspective".

Bump for paiktis and the gang

Traianvs · May 17, 2003, 07:47

If you have read Thucydides, then have you read Herodotos? He's a milestone in Greek history, and it's real fun to read too, especially with the fantastic stories and anecdotes he gives (it gets totally hilarious when he describes the size of the Persian army trekking around Thracia into Greece, he estimates the total number of people, including cooks, and other personnel, at about 4,5 million or something iirc)

To give you an idea of an "old comedy" (theatre) you could read Aristophanes, and you'll see that those ancient Greeks' sense of humor was kind of vulgar

Also reading Plato is compulsory

Btw in case you wanted a description of the evolution of Greek sculpture through time for example, I could give you that, but I'm not sure that's what you want to know

Az · May 17, 2003, 08:01

Quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion
Well I am don't know much, but if it is to help someone ..

Greeks are big sports fans. Football especially. Compliment Besiktas often. You can't go wrong with saying 'Fenerbahce champion!' to a native either. As for basketball, 'Maccabi Maccabi!' should get you lots of pleasantly surprised faces

Zkribbler · May 17, 2003, 11:23

When I was an undergrad, I took a course in ancient Greek art...but that was so long ago, the course was entitled "Modern Art."

I don't remember much, but here's what's left in my brain:

There were two kinds of clay in Attica (the region around Athens), red clay and black clay. Therefore, the clay pottery consists either of red figures on a black background or black figures on a red background. You can sound really smart by observing a piece is either a red-figure piece or a black-figured piece.

There are three types of relief scuptures: low, medium and high. Low relief barely emerges from the back ground, like the presidential heads we have on our coins. Medium is a more normal look. In high relief, many of the figures completely will emerge from the background, like little statutes which are afixed to the background.

A sarcophagus is a coffin with relief figures on the side.

There are three types of Greek columns: Doric, which is the oldest and simpliest, just a stright up and down column; Ionian, which has cute curly cues at the top and bottom, and Corinthian [sp?], which is the most recent, and has ornate curly cues at the top and bottom. The Romans of course copied this, and the Colliseum in Rome--which originally had only three levels--has Doric columns on the lower lever, Ionian on the middle level, and Corinthian on the original top level. Later, a fourth level was added, but it has no columns, just flat slabs.

Greek statutes are marble. Roman statutes are bronze. A lot of Roman statutes are merely copies of Greek statutes, but because (a) marble is stonger than bronze, and (b) the ankle is the weakest part of the statute, early Roman statutes tended to buckle at the ankle. So, the Romans began putting little bronze tree stumps right next to the ankles to reinforce them.

Romans also like busts, so their soldiers tended to chop off the heads of marble statutes and take them home to Rome.

Every polis (city-state) had an acropolis--a rocky mound upon which the local temple and government buildings were located. "The Acropolis" is located in Athens.

A statute of a woman carrying a bow but not wearing armor is Diana--Goddess of the Hunt. A statute of a woman carrying a bow with armor is Athena, Goddess of Wisdom and patron goddess of Athens.

orange · May 17, 2003, 12:01

Great post Zkrib

Some of it I knew (Acropolis, Goddesses) but the stuff on their art and architecture was some good basic knowledge. Thanks!

Quote:

but that was so long ago, the course was entitled "Modern Art

Agathon · May 17, 2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Trajanus
If you have read Thucydides, then have you read Herodotos? He's a milestone in Greek history, and it's real fun to read too, especially with the fantastic stories and anecdotes he gives

One of my favourites is his description of how Persian men fumigate themselves after having sex, by lowering their genitals over burning incense. Must have been some nasty accidents there.

orange · May 17, 2003, 19:52

BUMP

Paiktis, Axi, Chris62 where are you?

Boris Godunov · May 17, 2003, 21:16

Quote:

Originally posted by orange
BUMP

Paiktis, Axi, Chris62 where are you?

You'd summon them willingly? Dear lord...

Bereta_Eder · May 17, 2003, 21:48

Fenerbache and macabi have both been beaten in their homes by Greek teams so I doubt that would upset anyone. To be frank I doubt if people would even know them.

Homoerotic poerty almost doesn't exist. It's 1% of the total art production of Greece. Hardly worth mentioning unless you're gay.

Aristophanes was rather vulgar indeed.

Glad to see someone has actually starting to get what one of the greatest comedian writer was about.

You have to see them played in the ancient stadiums. Phaluses thrown over shoulders etc.

Now,

Quote:

Originally posted by orange
I'll be going to Athens, Greece this summer with a few students from college as part of a Study Abroad program. I will be taking 4 courses, one in basic Greek language, another in Ancient Greek and Near East history, one on Greek Art and Architecture, and another on Ancient Greek Drama.

In the history category, I'm set. There's not too much I can do to prepare for the language course (and it's cake) but if you can help there (basic phrases, words, pronunciations) that'll help. What I'd really like to learn more about, as a bit of a primer for this trip, is about aspects of Greek Culture, living, and especially Art.

This is partially because I am interested and always have been, and very timely because of (and it always comes down to this) a girl. Yes, a girl that loves Art History and who I've been talking with a lot lately. She's gorgeous and I want to make babies with her.

So erm yes, enlighten me please

First, good luck with the girl

Secondly could you narrow it down a little bit? What exactly would you like know? There are tons of things

Bereta_Eder · May 17, 2003, 21:56

Just a general link untill you specify a bit more.

http://www.culture.gr/

Cruddy · May 17, 2003, 21:57

I regret I can offer you virtually nothing outside of this one poor draft dodger I ran into.

Spiros was quite adamant that modern Greek culture revolved around corruption and bribery. He insisted that the police were all powerful untouchables and his greatest ambition was to live in a Greece where you could live without paying kickbacks.

Sorry to offer such a negative, slanted, one sided view of modern Greece. Oh yeah, you'll run into tons of Brits over there (well, lots of non-Greek tourists I guess).

Bereta_Eder · May 17, 2003, 22:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Cruddy
modern Greek culture revolved around corruption and bribery.

What a load of bullshite obviously. In the same spirit british culture evolves around inefficiencly, pathetic medical care, violence, unprecedented in Europe racial riots , terrorism and fatal train accidents.

Cruddy · May 17, 2003, 22:13

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22

What a load of bullshite obviously. In the same spirit british culture evolves around inefficiencly, pathetic medical care, violence, unprecedented in Europe racial riots , terrorism and fatal train accidents.

Umm... it does for a lot of people.

So Paiktis22, what is the dark side of Greece? My source was clearly biased (as I thought I indicated in my post). What are your thoughts on the matter.

orange · May 18, 2003, 03:00

Quote:

Secondly could you narrow it down a little bit? What exactly would you like know? There are tons of things

Well...I'd like to know basic things about art and architecture...pictures of important work, styles, etc. Basically, whatever you can provide the better off I'll be.

Thanks!

Oh, and I'll PM you with where I'll be and stuff, so perhaps we can meet up and get some grub, or something

orange · May 18, 2003, 11:52

Quote:

First, good luck with the girl

Oh, and thanks!

orange · May 19, 2003, 02:12

ahhhh, sorry, we'll try one more bump