May 17, 2003, 03:06
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#61
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Alright now I'm shamed especially in light of Chirac's diareha of the mouth.
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Funny, what exactly did Chirac say on the US?
That last wave of hatred was triggered by France saying "You want this war, we don't". It will be interesting to see what actual support of one of Bush's next targets of aggression would do - I suppose "Nuke France" headlines in the Washington Post?
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:07
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#62
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by LoneWolf
As for the connection between Chirac and Saddam, there was something written on this subject which was quite damning (not by Safire, but I don't recall who), so this is not a "hallucination".
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That connection goes back to the 1970s. But to think an egomanical ******* like Chirac would be motivated by "friendship", especially with Saddam, is silly beyond any proportion.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:08
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#63
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Deity
Local Time: 19:45
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"We don't want it, and we're gonna do everything we can to stop you" would be more accurate.
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May 17, 2003, 03:10
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#64
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
That connection goes back to the 1970s. But to think an egomanical ******* like Chirac would be motivated by "friendship", especially with Saddam, is silly beyond any proportion.
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And the French contracts there are explained how?
And Chirac's willingness to put France in the position she is now vis-a-vis the US is explained how?
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May 17, 2003, 03:10
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#65
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Deity
Local Time: 20:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Funny, what exactly did Chirac say on the US?
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I was refering to his comments to the mainly Eastern European countries that signed on to the "Coalition of the Willing." Pissed them off quite mightily IIRC.
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May 17, 2003, 03:12
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#66
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Warlord
Local Time: 01:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
I was refering to his comments to the mainly Eastern European countries that signed on to the "Coalition of the Willing."
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Were they something like "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists?"
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May 17, 2003, 03:15
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#67
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by notyoueither
"We don't want it, and we're gonna do everything we can to stop you" would be more accurate.
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If you want it that way, opposed to the bushist "We want it, and we're gonna do everything we can to get it", fine.
But where's the problem?
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:15
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#68
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by gsmoove23
Were they something like "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists?"
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Not as polite. IIRC, they were something along the lines of STFU.
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May 17, 2003, 03:15
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#69
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Emperor
Local Time: 20:45
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It was more like, "if you want to join the EU, you better remember who actually controls the EU!"
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"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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May 17, 2003, 03:17
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#70
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Settler
Local Time: 19:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
If you want it that way, opposed to the bushist "We want it, and we're gonna do everything we can to get it", fine.
But where's the problem?
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Again, no problem. Just acknowledging who are our friends, and who are our adversaries. What is the problem with that?
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May 17, 2003, 03:17
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#71
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
If you want it that way, opposed to the bushist "We want it, and we're gonna do everything we can to get it", fine.
But where's the problem?
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The problem was actively opposing. Sending the Foreign Minister out to round up support against. In other words, setting themselves up as active opponents, rather than to simply dissent.
You can't see the difference?
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May 17, 2003, 03:17
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#72
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Settler
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Or "They missed an excellent opportunity to be silent".
If you don't like Chirac, you may get a slight indication of how sympathetic most Europeans feel towards Bush.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:20
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#73
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Prince
Local Time: 01:45
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Rubbish?? the french have turned thier backs on thier allies, and thier people hate our fine Democracies. There is every reason to 'subscribe' to it.
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May 17, 2003, 03:20
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#74
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Warlord
Local Time: 01:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Not as polite. IIRC, they were something along the lines of STFU.
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 Perhaps GW's quotes translated into French mean something similar.
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May 17, 2003, 03:20
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#75
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Settler
Local Time: 19:45
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NYE- Well put.
Hersh- You Euros want to play hardball, that's just fine. So why the whining now?
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May 17, 2003, 03:21
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#76
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by notyoueither
The problem was actively opposing. Sending the Foreign Minister out to round up support against. In other words, setting themselves up as active opponents, rather than to simply dissent.
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Still, what's the problem? France acted actively against the US government's interests. The US government acted actively against French interests (and that of their own country, but who cares).
So again, what's the problem? Only America has the right to annoy other countries?
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:23
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#77
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by LoneWolf
NYE- Well put.
Hersh- You Euros want to play hardball, that's just fine. So why the whining now?
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Who's whining?
Also, we are still some way from the point of playing hardball. First we have to be convinced that Bushism is an incurable desease ripping through America. Then we have to get of the resident poodles, like Blair. Then we can play hardball. You'll like it.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:23
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#78
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Warlord
Local Time: 18:45
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The basic reason why French don't like us is that we speak the language they hate the most: the English.
It is true though that the English has screwed over the French many many times in history. Some notable ones:
- 100 years War, including the burning of Jean d'Arc at stake.
- The 7 Years War. The Brits first got the French entangled in a nasty war against Prussia, then proceeded to rob French colonies one after another. By 1763, the French lost ALL their North American and Indian possessions.
- Foiled Napoleon's attempt to conquer the Europe (world?).
I honestly don't expect the French to ever forgive what the English had done to them.
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May 17, 2003, 03:26
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#79
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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L'anglais de Msr Merciless est très drôle.
"100 years War, including the burning of Jean d'Arc at stake"
A minor setback for the French. Who was left ass beaten in 1453? Not the French....
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:27
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#80
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Settler
Local Time: 19:45
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Well. I'm getting a little tired of beating my head against this wall, but dear Hersh, they do have the right. But even actions within one's rights have consequences, and we have the right, in turn, to recognize and respond to their actions.
But I realize you would rather respond to the idea that the French don't have the "right", because tht response is much easier.
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May 17, 2003, 03:29
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#81
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Prince
Local Time: 01:45
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I dont really any of us gained from the 100 years, but you are right in the fact we have screwed the french over, Napoleon's defeat was the best. The best recent one was WW2 tho, we had to rescue them and that was humiliation. The French are a very bitter set of people to say the least tho.
Still it's not all down to England why France hates America, but partly because France is insecure about the amount of power America has, and do not want to feel ruled by them. The French people are , well - the French, they are unique with thier own culture and want to feel free of any of external rule, however letting them have the indepance of thier own country clearly isnt enough.
Cheers
Matt
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Up The Millers
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May 17, 2003, 03:30
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#82
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Deity
Local Time: 20:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Then we can play hardball. You'll like it.
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Please. 
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May 17, 2003, 03:30
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#83
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Settler
Local Time: 19:45
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"Bushism"?
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May 17, 2003, 03:33
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#84
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Deity
Local Time: 19:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Still, what's the problem? France acted actively against the US government's interests. The US government acted actively against French interests (and that of their own country, but who cares).
So again, what's the problem? Only America has the right to annoy other countries?
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There is no big problem. France has come out of the closet. They have dropped all pretence of being allies. Or, at least they had. Now they seem to be trying to back peddle for whatever reason they think that is good.
There is no problem, the way the Yanks seem to see it. The French are squarley out there as opponents. Not the first time some country or other has set themselves up squarely opposed to the Yanks. What, do you see this as a problem? Do the French? Maybe they decided they don't like contemplating the repercussions?
Only America annoy other countries? No, by all means. I think I mentioned how the French have been constant annoyances to someone or other since 1945 when they were given their country back to them after not having the balls to keep it for themselves.
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May 17, 2003, 03:35
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#85
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Warlord
Local Time: 18:45
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I agree that French people are very proud. I don't think they ever come to terms with the fact world's lingua franca is English and the most powerful country in this world speaks English.
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May 17, 2003, 03:37
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#86
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by LoneWolf
Well. I'm getting a little tired of beating my head against this wall, but dear Hersh, they do have the right. But even actions within one's rights have consequences, and we have the right, in turn, to recognize and respond to their actions.
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Sure. Go ahead.
There are just two things that irritate me. The incredible selfrightousness of the American extreme right , and the voluntary Self-Gleichschaltung of the media.
But of course, you are free to shoot yourself in the feet as often as you chose. Just don't drag us into that mess.
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“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:37
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#87
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Settler
Local Time: 19:45
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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NYE- I take back anything nasty I have ever said to you.
Now I'm off to bed.
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May 17, 2003, 03:38
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#88
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Settler
Local Time: 02:45
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Quote:
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Originally posted by notyoueither
There is no big problem. France has come out of the closet. They have dropped all pretence of being allies.
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From this side of the Atlantic, it looks like the Bushies have dropped any pretense of being an Ally.
But I'm actually not too unhappy about that development. Time to clear the air.
__________________
“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)
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May 17, 2003, 03:39
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#89
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Prince
Local Time: 01:45
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Lord Merciless, did you know they have a Minister of the Protection of the French language  ?
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May 17, 2003, 03:39
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#90
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Settler
Local Time: 19:45
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The sel-righteousness of the American "extreme-right" has impacted you in Germany how, exactly? And we are dragging who, where?
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