Official: New Bases

Method · May 19, 2003, 16:07

now that i have the save, here's the poll. hurray!

Drogue · May 19, 2003, 16:10

Edit: not you didn't

Wow, virually the same as my pic, except I would put one to the northwest of the nutrient, and not on it. A little too many options maybe?

Maniac · May 19, 2003, 16:10

You forgot the poll.

Edit: Now it appears.

Is this because some time passed between when you submitted the message and you submitted the poll options, and both Drogue and I were coincidentally clicking on the thread in the meanwhile???

Method · May 19, 2003, 16:10

no i didnt

Drogue · May 19, 2003, 16:12

How come you're pic shows our base as a Morgan one?

Method · May 19, 2003, 16:17

because the .ini file has the factions loaded in from the most recent SP game. i could fix it just by changing Faction4=Morgan (or something) to Cyborg in the .ini.

anyway, the picture is updated. from now on, consider write in to be "brown-ish"

Maniac · May 19, 2003, 16:19

After some further consideration I've voted the following:

Base 1: Green (that way the base can work the monolith, while Apolyton Prime can work the other monolith or the nutrient)
Base 2: Puke (that way it can work the nutrient square, is located on a river and is only three squares away from ApPr)

Edited by Drogue: Use your own posts TKG

i was just trying to cut down on spam

Drogue · May 19, 2003, 16:28

I still think they are too close.

Base 1: I think Pink or Blue, although wait 'til next turn to see better.

Base 2: Any of the back 4. Light blue takes the other monolith, and although puke is a bit close, it would be just about acceptable.

Drogue · May 19, 2003, 16:35

What happens if there is special resources in the pod? Still base there?

Maniac · May 19, 2003, 16:43

Then I would wait before I see what's under the current unexplored area before deciding. For the base in the North we still have a turn before it can be built.

Drogue · May 19, 2003, 16:53

Unless we want to build it where it is, yes.

Drogue · May 20, 2003, 11:35

Ok, with this poll, should we take the highest value, or take the middle. For insance, if red won with 4 votes on the top one, and pink came second with 3, would we chose red, or go between, to show that some people want it further away, like yellow? How to interpret the results?

DeathByTheSword · May 20, 2003, 12:39

pink and dark green

Drogue · May 20, 2003, 14:23

Same as DBTS. I could handle them being slightly closer, but I think that is still the best position for them.

Maniac · May 20, 2003, 14:33

What if there's a tie for the northern base?

In any case, I find it a pity green and puke are losing. This way the northern base will waste 1 mineral and 1 energy per year because of not having access to the monolith, and the southern base 1 energy per year because of not being built on a river. We will seriously get behind the other factions this way.

Method · May 20, 2003, 15:01

that and they're WAY too far away. i mean really, why do we have to have all 20 tiles with no overlap?

Drogue · May 20, 2003, 15:48

Why not? I still think it is better not to overlap, especially on good squares.

Maniac: It will miss out on the monolith, but that monloith will also be being used by AP soon, and there might be another one in that pod, or beyond it. As for the river, if you want that, we could have a look at the one a square southeast of the puke colour. However we'd need to know what's there. How about I look at the save, when it's our go, and wait an hour or two, to see what people think of the new square. Maybe it would be a better place?

Maniac · May 20, 2003, 16:01

Quote:

Maniac: It will miss out on the monolith, but that monloith will also be being used by AP soon

How do you define soon? The second monolith would only be used once we are at size 3 (if we first would use the nutrient bonus). That would be not using that monolith for 25 years or so, even presuming we don't build a CP in Poly Prime which would even further delay us growing to size 3. Since 25 mins and 25 energy (if not more) means a world of difference so early in the game, I think it's worth building a base one tile closer than normal for once.

Edit:

Quote:

Why not? I still think it is better not to overlap, especially on good squares.

Could you please explain that?

In my opinion good squares are exactly the ones most worth overlapping, especially if there are no less than three in one base radius!!

Drogue · May 20, 2003, 16:10

In the later game that overlap becomes a handicap. Also, I think there may well be a monolith or other resources over the horizon. We do not know what is there, but all the area leading up to it is lush and rolling, which would be nice.

If we overlap on good squares, we are having a square both bases want. If we overlap on abad square, it is just liek not overlapping, as it will never be used.

Also, overlapping means we get far fewer boreholes per base. A max of 3 with TKGs ideas, or 4 as they stand. It is possible to get 5 and 6 (IIRC) with them spaced apart. These are the only ones we really want to be working, since we can crawl nuts with condenser/farms. That means we want as many boreholes per base. I think we will be giving up a lot later for a few mins and energy now, if that, depending on what is in the undiscovered area.

Maniac · May 20, 2003, 17:02

Well I used to think that way too, like you do. But Vel's Guide really thought me the importance of "comparative turn advantage". Those "few mins and energy now" truly have an exponential effect on our development, which really is more important than some small handicaps later. Unfortunately I can't proof it to you as I did in the nutrient<->monolith game, as to compare benefits now<->handicaps later one would have to compare games decades in the future.

By the way:

Quote:

If we overlap on abad square, it is just liek not overlapping, as it will never be used.

Aha! You admit your "far apart" base placement tactic leaves squares unused, making the tactic less efficient!

IMO a bad square doesn't exist in SMAC, as you can always mine it or build a forest on it.