WWII fighter beauty contest.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Fez:

The Me262 was a very effective aircraft. the problem was that Germany lacked the experienced pilots to pilot it, they lacked the jet fuel, and the engine needed to be refitted constantly... still, even with usually no more than four Me262's taking on whole bomber formations, they were amazingly effective, rarely suffering loses and taking down plenty of Allied aircraft. Some historians hypothesize that if the Germans had actually been able to get all their Me262's up in the air at the same time, they would have shot down hundreds of allied planes.

Thanks to Hitler the plane was delay. He wanted it to be a bomber and would not let them used it has a fighter until it was to late.
Actually the British Meteor and the American F-80 was ready to fight, but the US did not send any over to Europe because the war was almost over. The Meteor was used in England only to shoot down V-1s.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Joseph:

I think you know why... P-51 pilots learned that the Me262's were most vulnerable when landing because if suddenly attacked, they could not quickly accelerate to escape the American planes... most P-51's that shot down Me262's did so with this tactic

There was one or two times the P-51 shot down a Me 262 in a dog fight. If I remember the story correct, the 51 guy made the 262 chase him down to a low height around 10, to 15,000 level and slow down and let the 262 get in front of him and then turn inside of the 262 and got him. As you said, a 262 could not turn at lower alt. and did not have a fast get away and was nailed.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Master Zen:

A lot of people exaggerate the indian/black mixture in hispanics... a place like Puerto Rico for example had the native population wiped out at the start of colonization and there never was a significant slave population so Puerto Ricans are basically the same as any Castillian or Catalonyan. the same can be repeated through most latin american countries where the native population is pretty low and blacks were not too known for freely mixing with the Spanish population. Though countries like Bolivia and Peru are mostly native or native/Spanish and Brazil and Trinidad are black or black/european, the typical Latin American is mostly Spanish.

Plenty of people in the US are mixed but they still consider themselves a certain thing... an average black person could easily say they are a quarter Seminole and 1/8th Scotch-Irish but they would still say they are black. A white person would also still say he is white though his grandmother may have been a Cherokee. Why Spanish in Latin America take these percentages and suddenly declare themselves a new race is beyond me

thanks

I disagree.

I will give Mexico as an example. there are 30% pure indians, 60% mestizo (mix of white/indian) and 10% pure white (european descent). However, those 60% mestizo can have anything from 1-99% indian (or european) blood.

Regarding some other "whiter" countries, like Argentina, most of the immigrants are not spanish, but german and italian. Same with Brazil which has a huge percentage of whites.

Why we consider ourselves a new race? Easy, the majority of latinamericans happen to be mestizo. And such a race did not exist pre 1492. And unlike blending in other countries, it has nowhere been on the scale as in latin america. And it just so happens the grand majority of a group of over 500 million people share this trait.

Ask any latinamerican, even if he is a 100% white if he considers himself "spanish" or "european" and you'll get the answer: NO. Cultural identity goes far beyond technical aspects of ethnicity, and latinamericans are a whole new flavor in the racial Baskin Robbins.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Joseph
There was one or two times the P-51 shot down a Me 262 in a dog fight. If I remember the story correct, the 51 guy made the 262 chase him down to a low height around 10, to 15,000 level and slow down and let the 262 get in front of him and then turn inside of the 262 and got him. As you said, a 262 could not turn at lower alt. and did not have a fast get away and was nailed.

The Me 262 could be out-turned at any altitude actually, if anything it was is only significant dogfighting flaw.

Mustang, Spitfire and Tempest pilots shot down Me 262s more frecuently than just 1 or 2 times, it did however, take great skill to do so. Chuck Yeager was one of the Mustang pilots to do it. At the end of the war Meteors were brought to the continent to deal with the Me 262 but there was no recorded combat between these planes.

[Joseph]

Serb.
The Russian Air Force is going to destroy the one and only example of the Myasishchev M-52. The plane is at Ramenskoye air field. Serb if you know anyone, ask them not to destroy it. Put it in a museum for all to see. There is a nice picture of the Sukhoi T-4 on page 89 of the International Air Power Review Volume 7 of 2003 Issue. Also in this picture, I see a F-4. Where did you guys steal it?
I guess, we will have to invade to get it back.
Its after midnight here, so I will leave now.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Master Zen


or probably because it was far superior to any other plane of its time?

From what Ive read on the Me-262 (which is quite limited, mind you), it seems the only way it was superiuor to allied fighters was in its speed. Its maneuverabilty appearently wasnt great, and due to its large cannons, it's ammo capacity was quite limited. The plane definately had potential in that it was a stepping stone, but in and of itself, it was no super plane of the time. Regardless, its introduction was so late it was ineffectual to teh war, and Hitler's misuse of them wasnt helpful either.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Joseph
The Mitchel is a B-25. The B-24 was know as the Liberator.

typo... ihonestly meant b-25...

The liberator was pretty nice looking too... as was the b-17...

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Kramerman


From what Ive read on the Me-262 (which is quite limited, mind you), it seems the only way it was superiuor to allied fighters was in its speed. Its maneuverabilty appearently wasnt great, and due to its large cannons, it's ammo capacity was quite limited. The plane definately had potential in that it was a stepping stone, but in and of itself, it was no super plane of the time. Regardless, its introduction was so late it was ineffectual to teh war, and Hitler's misuse of them wasnt helpful either.

Well most Allied pilots considered it they hardest plane to down, so I guess there was a reason for that. Allied strategy was also to catch it on the ground before or shortly after takeoff which proves it was more than a match for them at altitude. But as you say, Hitler's misuse of them made them far less potent that they could have if they had been introduced one year before...

[Hueij]

I can't believe no one mentioned the Fokker G.I-1, pride of the Royal Dutch Airforce. Too bad they were to little too late...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Joseph
Serb.
The Russian Air Force is going to destroy the one and only example of the Myasishchev M-52. The plane is at Ramenskoye air field. Serb if you know anyone, ask them not to destroy it. Put it in a museum for all to see.

I doubt they will hear me. Such bastards don't care about our history. Damn, I hate them.

There is a nice picture of the Sukhoi T-4 on page 89 of the International Air Power Review Volume 7 of 2003 Issue. Also in this picture, I see a F-4. Where did you guys steal it?

From Vietnam more probably.

I guess, we will have to invade to get it back.

Be me guest.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Hueij
I can't believe no one mentioned the Fokker G.I-1, pride of the Royal Dutch Airforce. Too bad they were to little too late...

I had never seen that plane before. Very attractive twin-boom aircraft especially considering twin-boom aircraft are usually pretty ugly.

[Frozzy]

The Fokker C.X and D.XXI were mostly sold to the Finns, and they were moderately successful. The Fokker G-I look somewhat like the Focke Wulf FW-190, but only 36 prototypes were made, of which 3 saw service in May, 1940. In reality, it was too little too late.

I have 5 favourite WWII fighterplanes: Messerschmitt 262A-2, Supermarine Spitfire, Hawker Hurricane, de Havilland Mosquito and Fokker G-I.

[Hueij]

This one is for Master Zen







A lot of stuff about the Dutch Airforce in WW2 can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/blerkenstein/klu/index.htm

[Az]

Actually the British Meteor and the American F-80 was ready to fight, but the US did not send any over to Europe because the war was almost over. The Meteor was used in England only to shoot down V-1s.

I don't think so. Mind you, even during Korea, the Americans didn't have enough jet fighters in the beginning of the war, even the F-80s, so they had to rely on the Mustangs as the bulk of their fighter power.


The Me-262 was indeed a plane superior to everything else in WWII. It's jet engines were much more powerful than the prop engines, allowing it to outclimb and outfly the Allied fighters. They did have a weakness in turning, But the climbing and speed more than compensated for it. Esp. since speed and climbing are very important factors in bomber interceptor roles.

IF the Me-262 was introduced as a fighter in decent numbers, esp. countering Allied air raids in the west, things COULD have been much tougher for the western front.

[Panda]

For me, the Spitfire is a must win. This is the Mk VIII

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Hueij
This one is for Master Zen

A lot of stuff about the Dutch Airforce in WW2 can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/blerkenstein/klu/index.htm

Very interesting page! I'm definitely giving it a good read one of these days

[Ikarus]

Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God!


WWII fighters. It's what I live for. I hate the question though. There are so many beautiful fighters. Although the D.520 is my favorite WWII fighter the Spitfire is by far the most beautiful, especially the clipped wing variants. It's sleek and powerful design is awesome.

I also noticed that the poll had primary fighters from each country. Left out were Italy's Macchi M.202 Folgore, another great looking plane. But lets not forget Czechoslovakia's Avia B.534, Poland's PZL P-24, the Netherland's Fokker D.XXI, Romania's I.A.R. 80, Yugoslavia's Rogozarski IK-3 (IK stands for Ikarus ) and Australia's CAC Boomerang. I'm sure some people would find any one of these planes attractive.

I'm especially a fan of the "Forgotten Air Force" of France. They had great fighters and great aces, like Pierre Legloan, who shot down five aircraft in one sortee, the first pilot of WWII to do so. He did this in the Dewoitine D.520. But along with the 520, French pilots flew the Morane-Saulnier MS.406(the most numerous French fighter), the all-wooden construction Arsenal VG-33, the well-armed Bloch MB-152 along with the American Curtiss Hawk 75 and the outdated Dewoitine D.510.

If I had to rank my five favorite aircraft they'd be...
1) Dewoitine D.520
2) Supermarine Spitfire Mk.1 (Battle of Britain)
3) Rogozarski IK-3
4) Lavochkin LaGG-3
5) Messerschmitt Bf.109G

In the beauty contest these are my ratings:
- Bf.109
- Zero
- Spitfire
- P-51
- Yak-9:
- Dewoitine 520:

Being an American, it is odd that I dislike American WWII fighters. I especially dislike the P-51 Mustang. My favorite American fighters are the P-38J Lightning and the P-40s. My favorite bomber happens to be the B-25, however, especially after seeing "Pearl Harbor" and reading .Catch-22 .

[Tattila the Hun]

Here's some data on Brewster Buffalo:

FAF top scorers in the Brewster
Pilot in Brewsters in all aircraft
Wind 39 vics 75 vics
Juutilainen 34 94
Karhunen 26.50 31.50
Nissinen 22.50 32.33
Kinnunen 19 22.50
Katajainen 17.50 35.50
Luukkanen 14.50 56
Alho 13.40 15
Pekuri 12.50 18.50
Teromaa 12 19
Lumme 11.50 16.50
Torronen 10.50 11.25
Kokko 10 13.33

And here's a beaut:




Twin rotor, wow.

And this is a sleek one:



Henschel Hs 132, a dive bomber, actually.

[Myrddin]

Of course the Mustang was only a contender after they put a Rolls-Royce Merlin engine in it

Most people agree that rotary engine fighters are not beautiful, which is why everyone likes early WWII fighters

For the jet age, the winner has to be the Hawker Hunter

[Hueij]

For the jet age, the winner has to be the Hawker Hunter

I don't agree...

[aaglo]

I think this is the winner.

[Hueij]

I think this is the winner.

It would be if it was a fighter

[Az]

the Me-262 wasn't an exceptionally beautiful jet. there are much better looking jets.

[aaglo]

Hueij, Me 110 was a fighter (well, actually bomber/fighter, but fighter anyway )

[Hueij]

the Me-262 wasn't an exceptionally beautiful jet. there are much better looking jets.

Oh? Any pics?

Hueij, Me 110 was a fighter (well, actually bomber/fighter, but fighter anyway )

You are right, my mistake. But the 110 wasn't very
succesfull though. Great looks but no performance

[Whaleboy]

Spitfire: Great name, orgasmic shape, great performance, easy to fly, symbolic of the protection of the UK (althuogh the hurricane deserves equal credit), and stupendously well armed.

Wins hands down!

Oooo it also sounds like the end of the world!

[Whaleboy]

The P47 thunderbolt was gorgeous because it was so bloody ugly!!! The father of the A10 tankbuster IMO, it was a lead dispenser at 400 mph, with a durable rotary engine.

Still, doesnt beat the spitfire. The mark IX and the mark IXX were the best looking.

[Whaleboy]

"But the 110 wasn't very
succesfull though"

It was an effective night fighter, but in the battle of britain, this bomber escort needed its own escorts.

[Giancarlo]

Pictures of the P-47 Thunberbolt (my fav):







This is now my fav... The P-51 is a close second.

[Hueij]

Fez,we are talking about looks, so the Thunderbold is definitely out