May 25, 2003, 17:18
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#1
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Deity
Local Time: 03:20
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Posts: 12,426
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Hypothetical: Divinity directly revealed to you
This is directed at believers of a religion as much as atheists and agnostics.
Suppose an event occured that would lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the world around us was created by a divinity. The event can be something only you witnessed, that a group of you witnessed or even the entire world witnessed. The event may be a scientific and peer reviewed study with an extremely high degree of accuracy. Basically the event is something that would convince you of the existence of a divinity without room for doubt.
Assume the divinity is of a Judo-Christian-Islam leaning.
How would that knowledge effect your life?
I'm interested in whether Christians with absolute knowledge (as opposed to faith) in their God would become more devout.
I'm also interested in how such a sudden change in worldview would effect atheists. Are there any atheists here that could never be convinced of a divinity?
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
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May 25, 2003, 17:23
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#2
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
Local Time: 03:20
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Posts: 11,117
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I am a diehard atheist, but would acknowledge facts. I would, however, do all I can to double and triple check that "evidence", before I give in.
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May 25, 2003, 17:25
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#3
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Prince
Local Time: 03:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 366
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It wouldn't change anything for me. God and I talk all the time...
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May 25, 2003, 17:29
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#4
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King
Local Time: 02:20
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Kuzelj
Posts: 2,314
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Rogan Josh
It wouldn't change anything for me. God and I talk all the time...
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that is a true difference between a believer and non-believer, a beliver has to base his religion on experience, and that is it no matter what religion he is or else. In the same way a guy who says he is religious and says he has no experience he is an atheist with a wrong name.
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*** Apolyton Champions League 2002/2003 Champion***
Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good.
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May 25, 2003, 17:30
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#5
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Local Time: 04:20
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__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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May 25, 2003, 17:32
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#6
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Prince
Local Time: 03:20
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as an agnostic I probably would think that I have seen more than I should have.  I probably would try to keep on living and believing like I always used to. but this is all too theoretic to make a clear statement.
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justice is might
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May 25, 2003, 17:33
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#7
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King
Local Time: 02:20
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I would jsut say that the evidence cannot be "third person" as it has to be my own experience, if that God can talk to him, he has to be willing to reveal himself to me somehow to.
__________________
*** Apolyton Champions League 2002/2003 Champion***
Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good.
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May 25, 2003, 17:41
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#8
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Settler
Local Time: 02:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2003
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Posts: 0
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i would have to kill myself.
i currently live every day of my life thinking that i am god.
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Note to self...
write a funnier signature
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May 25, 2003, 17:47
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#9
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Prince
Local Time: 03:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 366
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I think most atheists would find some way to 'rationalise' it away, no matter how startling the revalation. No conclusion is inescapable, so they would just block it out and go back to living as they always did. They could always put it down to a mass halucination of something.
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May 25, 2003, 18:19
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#10
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:20
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Posts: 4,625
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I am a diehard atheist, but would acknowledge facts. I would, however, do all I can to double and triple check that "evidence", before I give in.
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 same here
if i saw jesus' face in a tortillia, however, i'd ask my self why an omnipotent being chose to manifest himself in a low price foodstuff.
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"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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May 25, 2003, 18:21
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#11
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Settler
Local Time: 02:20
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Posts: 4
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I would change very little in my life if it was proven to me that God exists, (unless it was allah - then i might go to a mosque and curse bush a little more often  )
But otherwise, if there is something you'd change, regardless of whether there was a god, or whether existence was meaningless "what you see is what you get", then you're not living life the way you should be.
At this point in my life I have complete faith that one day the true nature of the universe will be revealed to me, whether by God or by some other beings ala the Matrix or whether this is all some creation of my own imagination, either way I look forward to whatever awaits - but I'm in no rush to get there.
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May 25, 2003, 18:23
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#12
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OTF Moderator
Local Time: 20:20
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Posts: 13,063
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Rogan Josh
I don't know what has been up with my latest visit to apolyton
but I have agreed strongly with everything you say
:d:
Jon Miller
__________________
Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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May 25, 2003, 18:24
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#13
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Soul Survivor
then i might go to a mosque and curse bush a little more often
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that implies that you do it already. FLAME THE N00b!
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
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May 25, 2003, 18:40
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#14
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:20
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I wouldn't expect that the revelation would affect me a great deal, unless God also gave me a rule-book or something (in which case I'd obviously follow the rule-book -- no need to piss off a fellow who's omnipotent...  ). I mean, it's not like I'd say "Wow, I'd better stop being so bloody evil, now that I know that I'm gonna get a spanking if I'm naughty!"
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"For just twenty cents a day, we'll moisten your dreams with man urine." -Space Ghost
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May 25, 2003, 18:51
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#15
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Deity
Local Time: 03:20
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Join Date: Dec 1969
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Quote:
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Originally posted by UberKruX
same here
if i saw jesus' face in a tortillia, however, i'd ask my self why an omnipotent being chose to manifest himself in a low price foodstuff.
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I'd ask why you think that Jesus' face in a tortilla is the evidence that is most likely to persuade you of a God.
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"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
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May 25, 2003, 18:57
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#16
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Emperor
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I wouldn't change much. I lead a pretty 'moral' life in the Judeo-Christian sense.
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"Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez
"I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui
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May 25, 2003, 19:03
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#17
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Deity
Local Time: 04:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
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I would tell 'it' to sod off and find a new universe to sr*w up.
(oh and before he/she/it goes, to wipe out all spambots  )
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#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
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May 25, 2003, 19:08
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#18
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:20
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Most likely, such evidence wouldn't change my actions to any significant degree.
I've never cared much for taking orders from humans due to their power. And the same would hold true for a deity.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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May 25, 2003, 19:17
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#19
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Local Time: 13:20
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My actions wouldn't change.
Although I might possibly start a thread on Apolyton letting others know of the proof.
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I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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May 25, 2003, 19:40
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#20
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Emperor
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maybe that's what CivNation was all about
__________________
"Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez
"I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui
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May 25, 2003, 19:57
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#21
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King
Local Time: 02:20
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Location: TN
Posts: 1,864
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I don't think I would change much. I already have plenty of evidence of his existence. An earth shattering revelation would be embarrassing to me because it would expose my lack of faith in one who has been so faithful to me. And I agree that an undisputed revelation would not convert most die hard atheists. In time they would explain it away.
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May 25, 2003, 22:55
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#22
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Settler
Local Time: 02:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UChicago
Posts: 4
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you'll never find proof of God's existence by looking for it, but as soon as you stop looking for proof, stop begging for it, stop demanding it... it will come, and often in the strangest of ways
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May 26, 2003, 01:38
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 10:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I think most atheists would find some way to 'rationalise' it away, no matter how startling the revalation. No conclusion is inescapable, so they would just block it out and go back to living as they always did. They could always put it down to a mass halucination of something.
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Of course, a believer will always push his god back further when it is shown that no supernatural entity is required at a particular level.
Yes, they even posit that their god is completely beyond anything we know, including logic and laws of nature.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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May 26, 2003, 01:41
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#24
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Deity
Local Time: 10:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
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Re: Hypothetical: Divinity directly revealed to you
Quote:
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Originally posted by Big Crunch
This is directed at believers of a religion as much as atheists and agnostics.
Suppose an event occured that would lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the world around us was created by a divinity. The event can be something only you witnessed, that a group of you witnessed or even the entire world witnessed. The event may be a scientific and peer reviewed study with an extremely high degree of accuracy. Basically the event is something that would convince you of the existence of a divinity without room for doubt.
Assume the divinity is of a Judo-Christian-Islam leaning.
How would that knowledge effect your life?
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Assume the divinity is not of a Judeo-Christianity leaning.
How would that knowledge affect your life, esp. when you are a Christian?
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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May 26, 2003, 05:28
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#25
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Prince
Local Time: 03:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 366
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Yes, they even posit that their god is completely beyond anything we know, including logic and laws of nature.
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Isn't that the very definition of 'omnipotent'?
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May 26, 2003, 07:56
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#26
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:20
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Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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As said before, I'd double and triple check all facts. Then, I'd probably believe in god. But my behaviour wouldn't change much. Why do I have to think that this god wants me to not drive on saturday, abstain from mastrubation, etc.?
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May 26, 2003, 08:06
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#27
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King
Local Time: 22:20
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Location: Kabul, baby!
Posts: 2,876
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It wouldn't change anything. Why? Because even if I know there's a J/C/I deity running the show, I haven't a clue as to what He wants or expects from me. Assuming that my "knowledge" of him is just knowledge of his existence and not of His will, I don't know a thing about Him -- because all I've got is this Bible/Koran thingie, and that's our creation, not His.
Alternatively, I suppose, the Bible could really be His word -- in which case I now have proof that all existence is presides over by a misogynistic, homophobic, sadistic meglomaniac. Again, no biggie; I've worked under that kind of a$$hole before.
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"If crime fighters fight crime, and firefighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?"— George Carlin
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May 26, 2003, 08:16
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#28
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Emperor
Local Time: 21:20
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Location: San Antonio
Posts: 18,269
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Quote:
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How would that knowledge effect your life?
I'm interested in whether Christians with absolute knowledge (as opposed to faith) in their God would become more devout.
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Depends on what you mean by 'revelation'. I have seen, as some of the other Christians, evidence for God in my life.
Besides, God's there when I need to talk to Him anyways.
Quote:
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got is this Bible/Koran thingie, and that's our creation, not His.
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Rufus:
Technically, it's his creation anyway because are we not all a part of God's creation?
UR:
Quote:
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Assume the divinity is not of a Judeo-Christianity leaning.
How would that knowledge affect your life, esp. when you are a Christian?
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Without further clarification, I would conclude that these were demons.
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Scouse Git (2) LaFayette and Adam Smith you will be missed
"All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - JRR Tolkein
Get busy living or get busy dying.
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May 26, 2003, 08:20
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#29
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King
Local Time: 22:20
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Kabul, baby!
Posts: 2,876
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Quote:
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Originally posted by obiwan18
Rufus:
Technically, it's his creation anyway because are we not all a part of God's creation?
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Then, technically, aren't all religions part of God's creation? An dthen, techically, aren't those Jews, Christians, and Muslims who declare their religion the One True Religion actually blasphemers?
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"If crime fighters fight crime, and firefighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?"— George Carlin
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May 26, 2003, 10:17
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#30
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Local Time: 04:20
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Posts: 6,182
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Quote:
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Originally posted by obiwan18
UR:
Quote:
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Assume the divinity is not of a Judeo-Christianity leaning.
How would that knowledge affect your life, esp. when you are a Christian?
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Without further clarification, I would conclude that these were demons.
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At least your position as a believer makes things much more simple than for an atheist
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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