Fundementalism and Unit Support

Epik · April 5, 2001, 11:14

My Civ2 Gold manual says, when the government is Fundementalism, that a city can build 10 military units before they will require a support shield. It also says that there is no support shields required for Fanatics while in Fundementalism.

I am currently in a MP game and my government is Fundementalism. What I am actually seeing is that no support shields are required for the first 8 military units built by a city. Fanatics are showing up in the Units box for a city. Once this box is full (it holds 8 units) then support shields begin to be deducted from the city.

We are using the standard rules.txt file and I have checked it and it seems to indicate the 10 limit and no support for Fanatics.

Has anyone else seen this? Do you know of anything else that would effect the Unit Support requirements under Fundementalism (perhaps city size)?

I am using Mac OS, so perhaps it is just a bug in that version of the game.

DrFell · April 5, 2001, 11:22

As far as I know, fundy supports 8 units per city for free, just ignore what the manual says.

It was changed in an early version of the game, presumably they thought 10 was too much. I'm not sure about fanatic support though.
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited April 05, 2001).]

rah · April 5, 2001, 14:09

Here's an old thread about fundy that if you read all the way, there is some discussion on unit support.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001230.html

RAH

Scouse Gits · April 5, 2001, 15:23

I think that at deity level there is little doubt that the support limit is 8, but as I rarely push out reams of Fanatics I cannot guarantee that they are (as advertised) free.

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

Gothmog · April 5, 2001, 19:24

What I know about this is that if fantatics are among the first 10 units built, they count against that limit even though they don't cost shields for support. I had assumed that only non-fanatic units would count against that limit, but this is not the way it works. I learned this while setting up a scenario with lots of fantatics and discovered that the order in which I created units mattered.

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"There is no tiddle-taddle nor pibble-pabble in Pompey's camp."

Scouse Gits · April 6, 2001, 00:15

Units in Fundamentalism:

a) Ordinary Units - Not fanatics
Before the 2.42 patch 10 units could be supported by a city without any shield loss. Now it is 8. This is the same in MPE.

b) Fanatics
Although the fanatic units will show up as supported in the city screen box, they never cost any shields. They are "zero rated" the same as freights and spies.

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SG(2)

DaveV · April 6, 2001, 08:13

After spending some time in cheat mode, here's my conclusion:
Under Fundy, the eight units in the support window (the little window between the resource map and the city improvements) are free
of shield support. Units not shown in this window are free if fanatics, supported otherwise. So if you build a fanatic that pushes a non-fanatic out of the window, your support shields increase by one. I couldn't figure out what determines whether a newly-built unit appears in the support window or not; I think it is based on the order in which units are moved. Since I didn't want to spend an hour moving units

, I didn't test that theory.

Scouse Gits · April 6, 2001, 09:08

Thanks DaveV - I think we were all loth to start massive testing ...

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

April 6, 2001, 09:38

Eight support-free units are so much that you practically never have to pay support. In my OCC bloodlust games where my cap builds a new unit each turn I just rehome the excessive units in the nearby cities thus avoiding totally all support costs. This, along that abundant cash-flow makes fundy the most unbalanced gov in the game, IMHO.

Epik · April 6, 2001, 11:57

I have done some testing in the cheat mode and I got some strange results...

I have come to the following conclusions that during Fundementalism:

1. any non-fanatic military unit inside the Unit Support box will not require a shield to support it.

2. any non-fanatic military unit NOT shown in the box will require a shield to support it

3. any fanatic NOT shown in the box will NOT require a shield to support it

4. any fanatic unit inside the box will count towards the 8 unit support limit.

6. building a fanatic after the box is full of other military units will cause one of the other units to be bumped outside the box. This bumping also occurs when a second fanatic is built. No bumping occurs on the 3rd, 4th, or 5th fanatics.

Very strange code must have been used to accomplish this.

I gave up trying to figure out what happens when non-military units show up in the box.

[This message has been edited by Epik (edited April 06, 2001).]

DaveV · April 6, 2001, 13:23

quote:

Originally posted by Epik on 04-06-2001 11:57 AM
6. building a fanatic after the box is full of other military units will cause one of the other units to be bumped outside the box. This bumping also occurs when a second fanatic is built. No bumping occurs on the 3rd, 4th, or 5th fanatics.
[This message has been edited by Epik (edited April 06, 2001).]

Not my experience. I had a cavalry which would be pushed to the 8th position in the support box as I built fanatics. Then it would stay in that spot no matter how many more fanatics I built. Meanwhile, each fanatic after the third pushed one of four marines out of the box and into support.

Scouse Gits · April 6, 2001, 15:18

quote:

Originally posted by Epik on 04-06-2001 11:57 AM
Very strange code must have been used to accomplish this.

I think DaveV's finding echo this observation ...

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven