What is the end of evolution?

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
And as long as environments continue to change. Without change in the envrionment, there would be no need for evolution.

If a single species in that environment changes, then that itself changes the environment.

[Starchild]

Check out the stuff by Teliard (sp?) de Chardin. He saw evolution as a God designed process that's heading toward the Omega Point, a stage when mankind has evolved into all loving Christ-like figures.

[Maniac]

Have you been reading Hyperion lately?

[chequita guevara]

Death.

[SlowwHand]

From what I have been able to ascertain, official status as a horse's ass.

[Az]

That pic depicts an ass' ass.

[mrmitchell]

Quit being a smartass.

[Heresson]

There's always something to improve - also because the enviroment is changing

[Neutrino]

Evolution is the change in gene frequencies over time. Thus, to stop biological evolution, variation among a species must be 0 (homozygous for every allele), and mutations would have to be non-existant. Without those 2 mechanisms, differential reproductive success would be 0 since there is only 1 constant genotype.

Any time there are more than 1 genotypes of species, evolution will occur.

[VetLegion]

Uberkrux, the article you posted does not claim it is possible to make a truly intelligent machine



About the original post, who knows.. I have been reading about genes recently (Matt Ridley: Genome) and it is quite fascinating on that level. How simple data from the genes combined and combined and combined to finnaly arrive at a stage where its hosts (us) have the ability to spread them into space. Wow

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Uberkrux, the article you posted does not claim it is possible to make a truly intelligent machine

the "article", which was actally a paper i wrote, states that we cannot claim to create an intelligent machine, nor claim we cannot, until we understand our own consiousness.

[Dis]

all evolutionary paths lead to a dead end eventually

good thread idea though

[Sava]

How can we claim to be able to go out and create artificial intelligence when we still cannot explain the basic foundations of our own cognitive frameworks? Simply put, we cannot.

This is from your article Uber. Sorry, but I'm right.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

well to bump this back to life


ok to start from beginning

Lord Merciless
Biotech community is working hard on directed evolution. The methods are still very primitive and not much better than the nature can offer. But if Department of Energy's (DOE) Genome to Life project succeeds....

just a small step as they say on the way...

Lincon:
The end is that only the fittest will survive. Everything will be destroyed except the creator of evolution.

well the fittest is God... which is the same in your case, just it might have been the product of evolution as we believe in it at the moment

Soul Survivor
well with infinite time or infinite space (matter that is) god must already exist

actually never thought of it in this way - but well... yes

Loinburger
It'll probably end with good old fashioned entropy. When the suns have all burned out there won't be any more life, so evolution will have come to an end.

not neccessarily as there is only so much that we know about the universe now, that it is entirely possible that we might learn how to deal with it, aren't we ourselves - matter that defies entropy in every possible way imaginable - we might just as well find the cure to that "possible end" problem.

reds4ever
Evolution doesn't strive to create anything, organisms merely adapt or die, it's not a 'process' that needs to 'complete'

it doesn't need to complete but evolutioin in infinity produces God... if you follow on the line that "life" was getting more complex until the production of self-awarenes of the matter about itself (people) and it has greatly speeded up since, actually human knowledge is said to go up on an exponential curve ( which is knowlege of the universe about itself effectivley) while space/time still go linearly up in size while not developing at all as far as we know regarding the principles that rule it... which in effect sooner or later we will get to the ability to rule the universe or know all there is about it or even beyond it - effectivley a position of God... well that is the product of evolution as it is...

reds4ever
Why evolve? when an organism reaches a certain level of technology (ie. us) the enviroment can be made to adapt to suite the organism

well is this all that people strive for, if it stops most of people isn't there a probability that a certain % of people will continue on the quest for knowledge pure and simple, a quest further even though they have everything to survive at the point - given our human nature I would consder that a certainty - Maslow's self actualization infact...


On all biological/technological evolution debate - well think of evolution in my terms as develpoment... biological took a long time in human life terms, techonogical is but a glimpse of the time involved and it will be getting faster and faster - which is knowledge accumulation within our race/other races if they exist...

assuming that some of them/us implode... the others will survive and contionue on the quest that is unstoppable progress in getting to know more about the environment around that interests us...

just think of the milestones

- eternal life at first - be it merging with the machines, or perfecting our technologies to replace and construct our biological cells/organs which will at first just have an "expiry date" and later on those replacements will be "perfectly functioning" ie-- no ageing - OK, that might be a long time from now let's say 10000 years from now, but it should be technically feasible, if we start to engineer on atomic level I am sure the "perfectly manufactured organs will be high on the list of desireability" unless we develop into some mechanical form before - we have started already on that quest - prostetic limbs, artifical teeth, replacement of the organs, heart transplants - etc... this is just the beginning but I guess you should be able to see where I am coming from...

second - body is just an overhead -if we can dispose of it entirely - who knows? just an idea... but this is not it...

third
and than the intelligence - which is in effect the matter in the universe itself (us or some other sentient evolved being) will find eventually all of its finite(or at least linearly expandable) numbers of mechanisms, laws, and their combinations, comprehend it.. and here you have God - OK maybe it will take next 10 billion years, but if evolution as a process is to be believed I think this is inevitable.

[Japher]

What is the end of evolution?

I don't know. Yet, I think one problem is assuming that a god like being is the end all to evolution. It is a intrinsic statement that the more you learn the more you know. Yet, I think that the more you know the more you realize you don't know. Meaning that the smarter you get the more questions you have indicating that by infact becoming smarter you actually are becoming more realtively ignorant.

Also, I think I have a problem with the basic definition of evolution. For human evolution is wacked (there's a great scientifc word). For if evolution is the ability to increase your ability to survive, than why are we also increasing our ability to destroy? Humans in on themselves will be the end to their own evolution, we are a self-destructive breed...

Thus, with these to theories in hand, the end of evolution is and will be just like our beginnig... Stupid, innocent child, in the care of a garden, filled with good and evil... and we won't care to tell the difference.

[Velociryx]

Southpark.

Southpark is the end of evolution.



-=Vel=-

[loinburger]

aren't we ourselves - matter that defies entropy in every possible way imaginable

Nope, the earth is not a closed system, so we don't defy entropy -- the sun expends far more energy than we consume. The universe is a closed system (pretty much by definition), so entropy applies in full force. Eventually even elementary particles will disintegrate, and you're left with Nada.

[monkspider]

what is the end of evolution?

Communism

[Ben Kenobi]

As more advanced machines begin to evolve, we must look at them objectively when considering their intelligence, their sentience, despite the various shortcomings that may arise.

Impossible to evaluate the subject 'objectively.'

Why don't you adopt the conclusion that you skirt around that it will be impossible for machines to have human intelligence?

Machine and human intelligence seem to be two very different things, according to your paper.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by loinburger
It'll probably end with good old fashioned entropy. When the suns have all burned out there won't be any more life, so evolution will have come to an end.

This is depressing as hell, to know that the universe we live in, that seems so magnifcient and powerful, will too come to an end .

Coming to terms with my own inevitable death was a pain in the ass, let alone humanity's, life's, and the friggen Universe's

[Ben Kenobi]

This is depressing as hell, to know that the universe we live in, that seems so magnifcient and powerful, will too come to an end .

Coming to terms with my own inevitable death was a pain in the ass, let alone humanity's, life's, and the friggen Universe's.

K-man

Blame Sagan, he's the one who first came up with this summary.

Of course, then we would still have Percy Shelley:

And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Kramerman
Coming to terms with my own inevitable death was a pain in the ass, let alone humanity's, life's, and the friggen Universe's

Well, we are talking about an event that isn't predicted to occur for another 10⁵⁰ years or so...

[Japher]

Blame Sagan, he's the one who first came up with this summary.

Of course, then we would still have Percy Shelley:

And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Or, T.S. Eliot

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

and in not so much the same maner, yet I like it none the less

E.A. Poe

Out–out are the lights–out all!
And, over each quivering form,
The curtain, a funeral pall,
Comes down with the rush of a storm,
While the angels, all pallid and wan,
Uprising, unveiling, affirm
That the play is the tragedy, "Man,"
And its hero the Conqueror Worm.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by loinburger

Well, we are talking about an event that isn't predicted to occur for another 10⁵⁰ years or so...

doesnt matter. its an end. the end is coming. its inevitable. what next after that?

[Soul Survivor]

this is all theory guys

based on the current observations in our tiny little corner of the universe this is our best guess of what might happen in the future.... in a hundred years they will probably laugh at us for believing ideas like these, the same way we think of the guys at the end of the 19th century who claimed science would soon explain everything

take it all with a grain of salt, its a dreary idea but an unlikely reality