TO BHG: Moving Your Capital

Inverse Icarus · May 27, 2003, 18:01

Please, I beg of you, allow us to move our capital.

whether it be a seperate building, or an upgrade to a city, whatever.

im saying this because nearly everybody plays with capital elimination on, which i happen to loathe.

sure, it speeds up the game. it makes sense. i understand.

but, if i have a ton of resources, enough to rebuild myself and launch a counter offensive, why should i be forced to take back my capital in 5 minutes?

if i have suffiennt resources and time, i should be able to move my capital, and dodge the timer.

i'm not saying it should be EASY to move it, you could make it really expensive and slow (but it would have to fit into the time limit, of course).

you could make it so you can only move the capital when you lose your old one, but it would be cool if you could move it while you're not at war either, for defensive purposes

One_Dead_Villy · May 27, 2003, 18:34

One_Dead_Villy · May 27, 2003, 18:34

i host my own and turn capitol elim off....

else i just make sure i defend my capitol...but ya a way to designate a new capitol would be good.

hoju2 · May 27, 2003, 18:51

Yeah but,

Quote:

sure, it speeds up the game. it makes sense. i understand

I just played a game were one of the players killed my Capitol. They were an Adge ahead of me and destroyed it with nukes. If I was able to move it, I still would've lost, it merely kept the game quick and interesting.

Sarxis · May 27, 2003, 20:04

If you could move your capitol, then what would be the point of capitol elimination?

alva · May 27, 2003, 20:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba
If you could move your capitol, then what would be the point of capitol elimination?

If it is expensive enough, you're unlickely to pull it off a second time. I do see some value in being able to do this (at least once)

Bridger · May 27, 2003, 21:02

If you've got the resourses to move your capitol and reset yourself up (before he moves on and takes over the rest of your nation) you should certainly have the resourses to build an army and take back that capitol in 5 minutes. Sheesh, it takes 2-3 mins max to build an army in this game (with all the apropriate upgrades of course).

Jerry_Garcia · May 28, 2003, 01:22

many nations have lost their capitols yet strive today.

Inverse Icarus · May 28, 2003, 02:07

as stated above, it would also be handy to be able to move your capital to a safer location, before it even became threatened.

VJ · May 28, 2003, 09:02

Quote:

as stated above, it would also be handy to be able to move your capital to a safer location, before it even became threatened.

True in some certain, rare cases.

wilebill · May 28, 2003, 09:38

Moving capitol, yes this could work but I would like to see it as a proactive feature not as a reactive feature. It should not be possible to make a capitol move to slip out from under the retake capitol timer. However, it would be nice to move the capitol designation to a more protected position in your territory at times, but this is something that should take a long time, say seven or eight minutes and all players would receive notification of its new location when the move is complete.

Simplest of course is to ask your opponents to play without the capitol recapture timer as a victory condition.

Flayer · May 28, 2003, 10:03

being able to move your capital is a bad idea. it ruins the whole capital victory concept.

Buckets · May 28, 2003, 12:13

Quote:

Originally posted by wilebill
It should not be possible to make a capitol move to slip out from under the retake capitol timer.

Agreed. It would only work if you have to finish the research (or whatever) before the attack. And if the research is long and expensive, it should be a risky choice. So, it should really only be worthwhile if your original capital is in a bad spot.

otoh, that would sorta nullify the point of the 'warring states' map....

Bru|seR · May 28, 2003, 12:53

well if u wernt such an economic git then u might get forces to defend ur capitols!!!!

Inverse Icarus · May 28, 2003, 15:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Bru|seR
well if u wernt such an economic git then u might get forces to defend ur capitols!!!!

maxed food limit, troops in the middle of an enemy invasion, thats where i found myself.

Flayer · May 28, 2003, 15:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX

maxed food limit, troops in the middle of an enemy invasion, thats where i found myself.

Good play by your opponent

Inverse Icarus · May 28, 2003, 15:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Flayer

Good play by your opponent

3v3. me and one of my allies were hitting a guy hard, and 1 enemy snuck into my capital (it was pretty much on the border).

if i could have moved it deeper into my land (before or after it fell), i could have bought myself some time to rearrange my troops / research mil / build some more

Jerry_Garcia · May 28, 2003, 17:17

is to take out capitol victory before even playing. in other words, don't even set it as a victory condition. rarely does a nation fall just because it loses it's capitol. yes, they lose valuable resources and become confused in the retreat but they never give up a war (ie US,Russia)

Bridger · May 28, 2003, 18:16

Quote:

Originally posted by wilebill
Moving capitol, yes this could work but I would like to see it as a proactive feature not as a reactive feature. It should not be possible to make a capitol move to slip out from under the retake capitol timer.

I agree, and this could open up some more strategic posibilities. Have capitols produce an extra 5% of every resourse from buildings inside their production radius. This would make moving your capitol to a mine/forest-rich environment a strategic venture. It should take 5 minutes or so to complete, cost maybe 100 Wealth and 200 metal or something. Also it would be stopped if your capitol goes below 25% HP.

Bridger · May 28, 2003, 18:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX

3v3. me and one of my allies were hitting a guy hard, and 1 enemy snuck into my capital (it was pretty much on the border).

if i could have moved it deeper into my land (before or after it fell), i could have bought myself some time to rearrange my troops / research mil / build some more

Umm, you get 4-5 minutes on most capitol timers, even on a big map getting your army off the enemy and back to your capitol shouldn't take nearly that long (especially with forced march).

Unspeakable Horror · May 28, 2003, 20:24

Well they can always add it as an option (On/Off) anyway... so why not?

RKJanus · May 28, 2003, 22:46

One solution is to allow the changing of how long it takes to lose after a capital is captured. So instead of losing after 5 minutes, make it 10 minutes or even 20.

I don't really like the idea of being able to move capitals without a time limit to move your government, and a caveat that the timer is reset if the capital comes under attack. I

n general though, I have found that my capital is always at the center of my territory.

Carch · May 28, 2003, 22:54

Don't like the idea of moving capitals myself.

What location could be safer than your start spot?

Defend your capital properly, you shouldn't have to move it.

Next you'll be asking for fortresses on wheels.

Tacit_Exit · May 28, 2003, 23:30

more useless options to appease small minorities of players! yes!

akikonomu · May 28, 2003, 23:58

Historically speaking, moving capitals is a very common thing, in East Asia and Southeast Asia.

The nomadic Mongolian tribes which raided early China didn't have a capital, then designated Karakhorum as the capital when they began their empire-building campaigns. After conquering China, one of the Khans moved his capital to China.

The Chinese themselves shifted their capitals often, especially in response to an invasion from a superior force.

The list (not meant to be exhaustive) is as follows:
771BC Zhou Dynasty moves its capital from Xi'an/Chang'An to Luoyang after being sacked by barbarian tribes; hence historians split the era into Eastern and Western Zhou, to demarcate the move of capitals.

The Han Dynasty was established in 206BC at Luoyang, but the capital moved to Shantung near the end of its era, due to rebellions and famine.

317AD, the Jin Dynasty moved its capital from Luoyang to Nanjing, in the South, after being sacked by barbarians.

1125, the Song Dynasty lost its capital in Kaifeng to nomadic tribes, and re-established itself in Hangzhou, in the south.

For the Japanese, their capital city has been located at Nara, Kyoto, and Kamakura, before settling for Tokyo as the modern-day capital. So, what's the objection against moving capitals?

MxM · May 29, 2003, 00:19

Quote:

Originally posted by akikonomu
For the Japanese, their capital city has been located at Nara, Kyoto, and Kamakura, before settling for Tokyo as the modern-day capital. So, what's the objection against moving capitals?

Spoiled gameplay. Has nothing to do with historical accuracy.

MxM · May 29, 2003, 00:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Carlos113
Well they can always add it as an option (On/Off) anyway... so why not?

Because it is better for them to spend time elsewere, like making expansion pack.

akikonomu · May 29, 2003, 01:03

Quote:

Spoiled gameplay. Has nothing to do with historical accuracy.

Not really. An idea would be to institute a cost for switching capitals. An algorithm could be designed to compare the new capital to the old capital city, in number of improvements and buildings.

If the new capital is significantly less built-up than the original one, then the cost of relocation will be a cap at 80% for all production for the next 30 seconds. If the new capital is comparable or even more built-up, then the cap will just apply to Wealth production.

This way, it makes the game more interesting:
1. capital relocation is discouraged unless for pressing reasons. Players should also be limited to only one capitol change.

2. current complaints about capitol elimination can be sidestepped. Players who adopt the "nuke capitol", "bomb capitol" strategies and put in all their resources to attack just ONE city will find that more in-depth strategy is needed to play RON.

The opponent should get a "player has shifted his capitol!" message, but he has to make the effort to find out exactly where the new one is. More use for commandos, spies and scouts.

Of course, this is just an ex-pack suggestion, if this can't be implemented in a patch.
*hint, hint*

Inverse Icarus · May 29, 2003, 03:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Carch
What location could be safer than your start spot?

Defend your capital properly, you shouldn't have to move it.

i play a lot of 3v3s, and on maps such as great lakes or mediterrain(sp) you often end up with your team occupying a "corner" of the map.

the "side" players start somewhat in the middle, and often expand up into the corners, which is far mroe safer than your start locale.

because i'm bored, i made a pic of something that could happen on a mediterrain map.

Inverse Icarus · May 29, 2003, 03:14

stupid me. here is the attachment.