Stockpile Energy Bug/Feature and Other Exploits

[johndmuller]

Cuspidore BrownBeard staggers out of the WheelHouse, deftly snagging the helm with his hook while finishing off the xenorum and pitching the empty bottle out to sea halfway to DronzzzzLand. "That was #$%^&*!ing goooooood stufffff, methinks, " he says, "what I can remember of it anyways." Thwackkkk. . . the dirk slams into the bulkhead behind him, its message neatly pierced and written on nicely scented paper, fluttering in the gale . . . "Must be an important message, it nearly hooked my earring on its way in;", says the Cuspidore, " that bloke knows the right way to get my attention . . . but that handwriting, none of the crew onboard Montezuma's Revenge even knows how to write, let alone that pretty, . . ., and that smell . . . hmmmm, . . . , just like that place on the last shore leave, . . . hmmmm, . . . it must be from Admiral Googlie, just what we need, Hey you below, Matie, up here!", he shouts, "get me that University slave volunteer; get him up here to read this @#%^ #$$@%$! thing for me."

from FAQ thread
Cheats and Exploits
Allow the Stockpile Energy Bug: YES!
Allow upgrading crawlers for rush purposes: YES!
Allow retro-engineering: YES!
Allow upgrading with the Unit Workshop: YES!
Use the Googlie probe cruiser tweak: YES!

"Well Blow Me ^&*%&$@ing Down!", says the Cuspidore.

I realize it's a little late for discussing the rules and all, but these seem to be quite a bit at variance with the usual PBEM set. In the standard Poly tournament rules we have:

• Inserting Stockpile Energy into the build queue after a military unit is forbidden.
• Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed at end of turn only. However, supply crawlers upgraded in this fashion can still be used to advance Secret Projects in the same turn.

At CGN, the rules are similar (these are listed under "contentious issues"):

• A player may not insert stockpile energy into the build queue after the production of a military unit. Due to a bug in the game, should you put stockpile energy into the queue, you will get the benefit of the extra energy on the same turn as production of your military unit.
• A player may not upgrade a particular type of unit using the design workshop, and then attack with that unit in the same turn.

Further, in the PBEMs I've been in, reverse engineering, if allowed at all, specifically excludes reverse engineering the Probe (speeder) chasis to use for rovers. I don't think I know what the "Googlie probe cruiser tweak" is, but it sounds like a similar thing to 'pirate' the cruiser chasis.

Do We Really Want To Play With These Rules?

I had sort of assumed that this game was going to be more or less like a standard PBEM, but some of those variations are pretty unusual, in my experience at least. I'm particularly surprised by the Stockpile Energy treatment, I thought that was really standard, having been hammered out at length; it is nore or less a comprimise between fully exploiting the bug at the expense of never using the queue (except to stick in Stockpile Energy after units) and compulsively avoiding the bug at the expense of having always to put something (other than Stockpile Energy) into the queue after facilities. This happens to be a hot button issue for me as I was really bummed out when I learned about this bug and how it meant that some kind of weird queue usage was going to be required in PBEMs or else you would suffer a competitive advantage (I used to be very fond of using the queue to keep my plans remembered).

The business of upgrading with the DR and then attacking on the same turn can be a particularly vicious trick and IMhO was not intended to be allowed and should not be. I feel the same about doing it with crawlers, but I'm willing to compromise and allow that if upgrading/moving military units continue to be disallowed.

Anyway, I would be in favor of modifying the rules to more closely conform with regular PBEMs if for no other reason than to keep it simple for those of us who play PBEMs or who may get into PBEMs as a result of this game - so we don't create needless confusion and uncertainty about the rules.

There are, of course, other 'exploits' that were not brought up by the Googlemeister (actually it was TKG) in the FAQ thread, but this is enough for now.

[Mongoose]

First, I am opposed to changing the rules at this point.

Second, regarding Stockpile Energy...it is absolutely untrue that the issue has been categorically decided. (Never will be, IMO)

Fully 40% of the pbems I have been in in the last 18 months have allowed the use of SE. This is including the fact that a third of those games have been played under one set of tournament rules or another, here or at CGN. Almost 2/3 of my games outside of tourneys allow it. Standard? Hardly.

As I understand your post, you didn't make yourself aware of the rules beforehand and now wish to remedy that inattention by changing them to suit your preference. That seems utterly backward to me.

EDIT: typos

[Drogue]

This was all polled. And the Googlie probe tweak just makes the AIs more likely to use probes IIRC.

I was against some of them, but they were polled and democratically decided, and now we have started with them. Too late to change IMHO.

[Maniac]

I agree with the previous posters. The rules have been decided, so it's a bit late to amend them now. I personally don't like allowing upgrading with the Unit Workshop in the middle of a turn either, but decided is decided I guess.

[johndmuller]

(Voice from the Crow's Nest) "Ahoy on deck, Ahoy! - Cheap Shot across the Starboard Bow!"

Originally posted by Mongoose
. . . As I understand your post, you didn't make yourself aware of the rules beforehand and now wish to remedy that inattention by changing them to suit your preference. That seems utterly backward to me.

(Brownbeards Parrot): "Awkkk . . . Utterly Backward! . . . Awkkk!"

(Voice on deck) "Ahoy aloft, Ahoy! - Get a sighting on that Cheap Shot. Aye maties, we'll have to warn our trade missions off these shores - there be too many loose cannons about"

(Brownbeards Parrot): "Awkkk . . . Utterly Uncalled For! . . . Awkkk! "

[Googlie]

Originally posted by johndmuller
I realize it's a little late for discussing the rules and all, but these seem to be quite a bit at variance with the usual PBEM set.

JDM:

After much negotiations between forums, the (ongoing) Forum Wars series between ACOL, CGN and 'Poly hammered out the following rules of governance (and this series involves 36 players, I believe, drawn from all 3 forums):

********************************************

• Communications - none till contact, obtain commlink, or build EG (team mates can communicate from the beginning)
• Total freedom in Design Workshop (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field)
• Retro-engineering - OK, except for using the probe rover chassis before discovering Doc. Mobility
• SE switches "quickies" forbidden - (obviously you can experiment to see what effect various SE choices have, but cannot change, play moves, then change back in the same turn)
• Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
• Stockpiling in Qs anytime - OK
• Crawlers Upgrade anytime - OK (see Design Workshop, earlier)
• Probe actions: Must choose vendetta option when probing other players, rebuke when probing pactmates (OK to probe teammate at any time)
• Demanding withdrawal through the menus rather than by negotiation is prohibited
• Bribing (or accepting bribes) for votes through the diplomatic channel box by clicking on the faction leader's picture is prohibited (must be conducted by diplo message or e-mail)
• Multiple drops - cannot use the right click mouse feature to extend range of drop units beyond the 8 tiles (pre Space Elevator)
• Base growth through Colony Pods - can be used to increase a base size up to the applicable pre-facility limit, but cannot be used to breach that limit without the facility being built.
• Psi units cannot be assigned multiple waypoint patrol routes (to avoid instant demon boil bug)
• Cannot accept pending treaties/pacts after declaring vendetta in the same turn
• Cannot change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists, for example by using the F4 screen (or the bases icon of the F2 screen)

*******************************************

I agree Apolyton's TauCeti moderated PBEMs are more restrictive, but in my experience most games I'm asked to set up use the Forum Wars rules set

G.