Language Police Again! (I'm turning into Dissident)

Sava · May 28, 2003, 17:06

Quote:

Language police bar 'old,' 'blind'

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) --Oh heck: Hell hath no place in American primary and high school textbooks.

But then again you can't find anyone riding on a yacht or playing polo in the pages of an American textbook either. The texts also can't say someone has a boyish figure, or is a busboy, or is blind, or suffers a birth defect, or is a biddy, or the best man for the job, a babe, a bookworm, or even a barbarian.

All these words are banned from U.S. textbooks on the grounds that they either elitist (polo, yacht) sexist (babe, boyish figure), offensive (blind, bookworm) ageist (biddy) or just too strong (hell which is replaced with darn or heck). God is also a banned word in the textbooks because he or she is too religious.

To get the full 500-word list of what is banned and why, consult "The Language Police," a new book by New York University professor of education Dianne Ravitch, a former education official in President George H.W. Bush's administration and a consultant to the Clinton administration.

She says she stumbled on her discovery of what's allowed and not allowed by accident because publishers insist that they do not impose censorship on their history and English textbook authors but merely apply rules of sensitivity -- which have expanded mightily since first introduced in the 1970s to weed out gender and racial bias.

Ravitch's book is taking people by surprise the same way that Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" did in the 1960s in exposing the effects of pesticides.

'The Older Person and the Water'
She says a lot of people are having fun finding new titles for Ernest Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea" which presents problems with every word except "and" and "the." Ravitch said old is ageist, man is sexist and sea can't be used in case a student lives inland and doesn't grasp the concept of a large body of water.

But some people say the phenomenon of sanitizing words and thought is not isolated to textbook publishers seeking not to offend anyone so that sales can be as wide as possible.

The New York Times recently reported that National Institute of Health researchers on AIDS are not only avoiding using words like gay and homosexuals in e-mails so as not to offend conservatives in the Bush administration, they are also inventing code words.

Times journalist Erica Goode reported that one researcher was told to "cleanse" the abstract of his grant proposal of words like gay, homosexual and transgender even though his research was on HIV in gay men.

Nor is the government the only source of constraint or censorship in the watch-what-you-say business. Wal-Mart, the nation's largest retailer, recently banned racy men's magazines from its shelves although it continues to sell sexy underwear.

According to Ravitch both the right wing and the left wing get what they want in American textbooks, for example an emphasis on family values and equality among ethnic groups.

"Everyone gets their pet causes incorporated in textbooks. The history texts are reluctant to criticize any dictator unless they are long dead. And even then, there are exceptions like Mao is praised in one text for modernizing China but his totalitarian rule is not mentioned," she said.

She was also unhappy to see photos in one text of Saudi women working as doctors and nurses because that implied that they had gender equality.

"You also can't say Mother Russia or Fatherland or brotherhood in texts and that's both silly, trivial and breathtaking. It is like George Orwell's 'Newspeak' come to life," she said in an interview, referring to the manipulation of language in "1984."

Ravitch said that textbook publishing is controlled by four main publishers and they aim to sell texts state by state, thus forcing them to dumb down the books and make the language as inoffensive as possible. "They don't want controversy and they don't want people screaming," she said.

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I'm sorry. But this is the stupidest f*cking thing I've read about today. I know we had another thread not too long ago, this is an update. One of the biggest problems in this society is the revisionist style history that people will learn. History should be offensive. There have been some really nasty, offensive, evil things that have happened. By "dumbing it down" you are doing a great injustice to children by teaching them lies.

Oerdin · May 28, 2003, 17:12

This is why any of my potential future spawn shall go to private school.

Kirnwaffen · May 28, 2003, 17:20

Does anyone actually read textbooks anymore?

Quote:

She was also unhappy to see photos in one text of Saudi women working as doctors and nurses because that implied that they had gender equality.

Irony being that this is precisely the reason that this kind of thing happens.

Oerdin · May 28, 2003, 17:21

How about all of these "activists" (losers would be a better name for them) just shut the hell up?

Starchild · May 28, 2003, 17:30

....man, your country is wacked yo.

Kuciwalker · May 28, 2003, 17:33

This is almost NEVER enforced. However, to my particular amusement, a friend of mine (who goes to a different high school) found out that the Shakespeare in his English textbook was CENSORED

they had taken all of the sex jokes out (which is 90% of Shakespeare

) and RENUMBERED THE LINES, so he found out by accident (a question in a study guide about a line that WASN'T THERE). Come on! If you're going to take the sex jokes out of Shakespeare, you might as well not read it

What we found REALLY funny, though, was that the book was published in 1984

St Leo · May 28, 2003, 19:03

Only in America.

Spiffor · May 28, 2003, 19:48

I think that any historic text or literature piece should be published in theit first version. This way, Shakespeare and his sexual jokes all the way, witnesses of slavery who talk about negroes all the way, "The Old Man and the Sea" all the way etc.

While I find PC generally ludicrous, I don't think it is extremely bad in the comments (it is only very bad

). But slashing the original texts is unforgivable

Nubclear · May 28, 2003, 20:04

"OLDER PERSON AND THE WATER"

Space05us · May 28, 2003, 20:04

Quote:

Ravitch said old is ageist, man is sexist and sea can't be used in case a student lives inland and doesn't grasp the concept of a large body of water.

thats wonderful.

Space05us · May 28, 2003, 20:07

Quote:

The New York Times recently reported that National Institute of Health researchers on AIDS are not only avoiding using words like gay and homosexuals in e-mails so as not to offend conservatives in the Bush administration, they are also inventing code words.

Times journalist Erica Goode reported that one researcher was told to "cleanse" the abstract of his grant proposal of words like gay, homosexual and transgender even though his research was on HIV in gay men.

you gave no idea how much this is killing mw. I can barely type

Space05us · May 28, 2003, 20:13

I demand a direct link to this article so I can e-mail it to people!!

Master Zen · May 28, 2003, 20:34

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker
This is almost NEVER enforced. However, to my particular amusement, a friend of mine (who goes to a different high school) found out that the Shakespeare in his English textbook was CENSORED

they had taken all of the sex jokes out (which is 90% of Shakespeare

) and RENUMBERED THE LINES, so he found out by accident (a question in a study guide about a line that WASN'T THERE). Come on! If you're going to take the sex jokes out of Shakespeare, you might as well not read it

Most people don't even get them at first read anyway

St Leo · May 28, 2003, 22:18

Shakespeare has always sucked. Shakespeares sucks. Shakespeare will always suck.

I demand that Chaucer be taught with its full range of good Anglo-Saxon words for genitalia!

Kirnwaffen · May 28, 2003, 22:21

I always found the difficulty of discussing Twain in a freshman English class amusing...

Kidicious · May 28, 2003, 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Starchild
....man, your country is wacked yo.

It's to the point where we usually don't even notice the stupidity anymore.

Master Zen · May 28, 2003, 23:29

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
Shakespeare has always sucked. Shakespeares sucks. Shakespeare will always suck.

none a greater blasphemy hast mine eyes yet seen upon these here boards!!

Quote:

I demand that Chaucer be taught with its full range of good Anglo-Saxon words for genitalia!

You'll find in shakespeare a univesal word for that: "will"

Urban Ranger · May 29, 2003, 00:31

"Boyish figure" is sexist?

Cruddy · May 29, 2003, 00:40

This just goes towards strengthening my theory that most of school is brainwashing to keep kids off the street and out of crime.

No wonder teenagers rebel when they understand how much they have been deceived.

Kuciwalker · May 29, 2003, 00:40

The great thing is, my English teacher is this awesome guy (all of my core class teachers are really cool; my english, bio and tech teachers all have funky hair too

) who always POINTS OUT in this implied kinda way all of the sex jokes (and some of the funnier things about the Odyssey too). When we do literary discussions, it's hilarious.

Master Zen · May 29, 2003, 02:40

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker
The great thing is, my English teacher is this awesome guy (all of my core class teachers are really cool; my english, bio and tech teachers all have funky hair too

) who always POINTS OUT in this implied kinda way all of the sex jokes (and some of the funnier things about the Odyssey too). When we do literary discussions, it's hilarious.

Did we perhaps take the same Brit Lit class??

Sikander · May 29, 2003, 02:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
I always found the difficulty of discussing Twain in a freshman English class amusing...

And never Mark Twain shall they meet.

Dis · June 1, 2003, 23:27

is girlish figure sexist?

Sava · June 1, 2003, 23:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
is girlish figure sexist?

I hope not

and if it is, I don't give a sh1t

Zkribbler · June 1, 2003, 23:34

Marco...?
Marco...??
Marco...???

Hey, isn't anyone going to say [censored]?

Sava · June 1, 2003, 23:38

polo?

Q Classic · June 1, 2003, 23:47

"Uncle Tom" is a racist and derogatory term.

"Cabin" is a rustic term, probably not something easily grasped by one who has lived his or her life in the city.

======

"Slaughterhouse" is an offensive term, used in the meatpacking industry before modern times.

"Five" assumes the dominance of the Western numeric system, which is derived from the Arabic numeric system and ignores other number systems, such as the Mayan or Babylonian systems which did not use Base-10.

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"Crime" is a negative activity, and should not be supported in any way.

"Punishment" is too harsh. Rehabilitation is far more effective.

======

"Pride" has negative connotations, whereas "Self-Esteem" does not.

"Prejudice" is another way of saying "Racism", and we need to avoid that at all costs.

======

"1984" is a hard concept to grasp for students who were born after it.

Tingkai · June 2, 2003, 02:13

[q]Ravitch's book is taking people by surprise the same way that Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" did in the 1960s in exposing the effects of pesticides."[q]

We have yet another book about the "evil" politically correct hordes brainwashing poor Americans and this is being compared to Silent Spring.

Kingof the Apes · June 2, 2003, 02:16

Quote:

"You also can't say Mother Russia or Fatherland or brotherhood in texts and that's both silly, trivial and breathtaking. It is like George Orwell's 'Newspeak' come to life," she said in an interview, referring to the manipulation of language in "1984."

WTF?????

Az · June 2, 2003, 03:24

Quote:

'The Older Person and the Water'
She says a lot of people are having fun finding new titles for Ernest Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea" which presents problems with every word except "and" and "the." Ravitch said old is ageist, man is sexist and sea can't be used in case a student lives inland and doesn't grasp the concept of a large body of water.