AU208: Total Eternal Forever War - Reports and Comments

[vmxa1]

1600bc Archer goes elite after bagging a legion by Canton. I forgot to mention I meat Iroq a few turns back and bought two techs and you guessed it: declared war. A settler is on its way towards Rome to make city #4.
1525 bc founded Nanking and worker is about to finish the road to it.

[BigDork]

Hi all...

Well I had a feeling I was gonna have a hard time with this one. I definatly wouldn't call myself a warmonger in any way and so I have a feeling this will be a learning game for me.

So I'm playing as the Celts on Regent. Here's how my first game went.


1950BC-Declare war on Rome

1870BC-Attack Rome. 1 spearman defeats 4 archers.

1750BC-Entremont falls

1575BC-Rome takes Lugdunum

1550BC-Contact with Iroquis. Trade for Iron Working. 1 city left. People want to expand palace???

1300BC-The RNG is a bitc....pain in the butt. Attempt to retake Entremont. Lose all 5 attacking units to 1 warrior and 1 spearman.

1175BC-Rome captures Alesia.

[BigDork]

Well that was certainly fun. I think next time I'm gonna avoid contact a little longer. How did Rome get legions so fast??? Pure evil I tell ya. Anyways I'm gonna have to give it another try.

Here's the final score. I think Rome is definatly the winner.

BigD

[vmxa1]

Whoops meant to add pic.

[vmxa1]

1475 another elite archer. The original won got a kill also.
1425 Oh my, Kublai Khan makes an appearance. I guess I will have Pyramids after all.

[vmxa1]

1375bc Spearmen goes elite in Nanking and on the same turn so does the archer stationed there. I have a hunch the rolls will not be so kind, but then I remembered all the leaders I use to get before PTW, so who knows. Anyway got to stop, not sure how long befoe I get back. I have some more units on the way to Rome to squeeze them some. The first three cities have barracks and two have walls and I think Nanking does or will I forget. If it is not building them, then I got it already. So I am ready for a rumble. I did not pay attention, so I sure hope I have iron near by.

[vmxa1]

BigDork, I think they start by sitting on Iron so startig with Alpabet and Warrior Code and iron roaded, it won't take long.
In this game I am going with vets ASAP. I have only attacked on open terrain and defended behind walls (except after an attack). So the only fight I lost to a legion so far was when it attack an archer that only had 1 HP. I don't expect this to work that way forever, but so far I got the breaks.
I am going to try to draw the legions out if I can and force the Romans to drop to a size 1 and then blast them. I am working on Iron Working so if some is in range, I will have a better attacker for the Iroq.
I have vet or elite spearmen for defense and archers to finish off wounded or attack warriors and other archers.
You do not want them to accumulate units so if they stop near by you must attack them. A bad scenario is a bunch of units attaching your small group of defenders.
If you set up properly you can dictate their line of attack and punish them.

[BigDork]

Hi all...

Well I didn't have much luck with the Celts so I tried the Aztecs, again on regent. I've never played as the Aztecs before so I wasn't sure how well teh Jaguar Warriors would perform. Um...yeah, not my favorite unit. Anyways, here's pretty much how it all went down.

3400BC-Dang stupid Iroquois scout shows up. Get Broze Working and 10 gold for Warrior Code. Then I declare war.

3250BC Vet JW loses to conscript warrior.

3200BC-Vet JW triggers golden age.

2750BC-Pop Iroquois settler.

1500BC-Contact with Rome. Buy the Wheel.

1475BC-Gotta GL


When I got this request I so wanted to take it even though I was at a loss. The Iroquios were on the move straight for me.

[BigDork]

But on we fought.

850BC-Autoraze Tonawanda

690BC-Rome autorazes Texcoco

330BC-Iroquois autoraze Tlaxcala

290BC-Contact with England. Trade for Horseback Riding, Masonry, Pottery, World Map. 4 turns from Literature, hoping for a GL

230BC-Autoraze Brighton

110BC-Lots of Roman and Iroquios units headed my way. The end is near.

90BC-Iroquios autoraze Calixtlahuaca(3rd city on same spot to be razed).
-Rome captures Teotihuacan.

50AD-Rome captures Tenochtitlan. 1 city left.

I tried several offensives. First with Jag Warriors and then with archers. Not a single one of them succeeded. I usually sent at least 5 attacking units and 2 defenders. I've lost elites to 1hp units. I've lost 3 units to 1 spearman. The RNG is being particularly evil today.

Here's a screen from right before the end. I only have two spearmen in my city.

[BigDork]

I used my first GL to make an army because I was so far away from the Great Library. And considering the number of elites I had at my disposal I figured I'd have no problem getting another. Wrong. Oh well. I wouldn't have really used it for much anyways.

But at least this game lasted longer than my last game.

Of course I'm gonna give it another go, I'm thinking Persia this time however. Just have to get to the dang iron.

BigD

[Arrian]

Dave seems to be holding his own on Deity - and 2 GLs by that point are about as many as you can ask for.

BigD, I STRONGLY recommend an industrious civ for this scenario. There is a lot of chopping & irrigating that needs to be done.

-Arrian

[BigDork]

Arrian...

Yeah, I'm noticing that. Honestly I just wanted to try out some of the other civs people aren't using. I'm more than likely gonna end up using China one of these days. First I'm gonna go with Persia. But that's after work unfortunatly. I don't want to wait 14 more hours before I get my butt kicked again. I'm enjoying this a lot.

BigD

[Konquest02]

I went for Germany and their Mil/Sci traits combo.

I settled in 4000BC on the furs, as almost everybody did. What is important here is speed. So speed I went for. 1 warrior out in 3 turns and I then started to cranck archers.

I played the "purist" Total War. When my first warrior spotted the roman borders, I contacted them to trade for Alphabet. However, I didn't want to give them BW, so I declared war without trading anything. So war it was, at about 3000BC. A LOT earlier than I usually do. So I built two archers and sent them over to Rome. The second one managed to beat the veteran spearman on the hills. But... The Roman respawned farther on the land.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Very fun game, though I lost.

First, I forgot to set the difficulty down, I meant to play at Monarch, but ended up at Emperor anyway...

Not encouraging.

I chose the Mongols. What? An expansionist civ? you say. Yep. Popped 4 huts and found Rome's boarder without gaining contact, 1 settler, 1 'advanced tribe', Ceremonial Burial, and Masonry. couldn't ask for much more than that. Meanwhile, my capitol built NOTHING but archers, and I had 5 archers and took Rome who managed to pop rush a spear right before.

Fighting off the warrior stack that moved in to retake the capitol, and building a wall there, I then marched over to the now expanded boarders of the second city and Rome was quilckly removed from the game. Time to go and actually speak to the Iriquois since I have seen their explorer and have been devoutly ignoring it.

They had NO techs and I was not about to sell them iron working for 30 gold. AutoRazing a few cities on my march to their capitol I soon heard those dreaded hooves...Sh*t Im too late...and the Iriquois are now in their golden age.

Surprisingly, though, I was able to meet this and actually took their capitol, built a wall, and had 3 spear defending it, wiping out many a archer and was slowly marching in a new army of swords to wipe out the Iriquois for good. Curiousity got me and I COULD have arranged for peace for 4 techs and 3 towns at this point...I am rather sure that would have made victory MUCH more likely due to what followed...

Anyway I spot orange off the coast, then orange ships, then look who wants to talk...Elizibeth...Bite me. Next thing I know I have 6 knights (I am researching construction at this point) back in my homeland and the Iriquois suddenly have 5 new mounted warriors that ignored their former capitol, destroy my swords and marched straight into my core. The Knights pillaged my Iron road and went about cremating most of the core cities. The Iriquois were lucky with the RNG as they took back their capitol, walled, on a hill, from across a river, defended with spears and the AU modded archers without losses.

Im sure Monarch would be doable, but I want to give Emperor another try.

[Konquest02]

Shortly after, I met the Iroquois. When I completed to research Iron Working (40 turns after the start of the game), I had Iron in Rome and the rest of my cities (3) were not connected. So I built a couple of warriors to upgrade. Cash was almost pouring in because of my reduced science rate so I could afford a couple of upgrades.

In my first wave of attacks afainst the Iroquois, I generated a GL, which came back to my cities to build a 1x swordman* 1x vet. swordman and 1x vet. spearman army. I'm starting to experience mixed units armies (Thanks Theseus! ) and I find this one pretty effective. So with my army (and a couple of swordmen), I went to attack the Iroquois, destroyed some cities, but had to stop at the doors of Salamanca, due to the heavy casualties. I lost 10 hp of my army on a single regular spearman! It was then killed by a counterattacking Mounted Warrior.

While I retreated my remaining troops, I generated a leader with a swordman on defense. But...

[Konquest02]

I am now in the process of rebuilding my forces and I am about to go hit Rome. They are now deprived of Iron (at least I think, as I haven't seen a single legionary) and they should be a relatively easy target. But I have to watch for the damn Iroquois' MW who are killing me...

I just clinched the GL so I turned my science off and I am concentrating on troops.

I am impressed by the way the AI comes to cut my iron road relatively efficiently. But it allows me to build warriors and upgrade them, making me a nice swordman pump... Something unusual happened when they cut my iron. I was able to finish my swordmen but could not build new ones. It makes a strange view... I have cities producing swordmen and cities producing warriors at the same time. And everything is connected with roads...

[Konquest02]

Here is a screenshot of my current turn. There was a lot more troops in my territory 2-3 turns ago but I managed to kill them outside my cities with swordmen.

Btw, I'm playing Regent with PtW regular rules. I usually play monarch so I stepped down one notch for this one. It's a nice challenge (), thanks alexman!

[Arrian]

"Our leader has been destroyed"

Ahhh! The horror! The horror!

:sobs:

-Arrian

[Konquest02]

Oups... Forgot to attach image. Here it is...

I recently got a third GL and I used him to rush the FP in Rome. 3GLs that tops my all-time highscore, and I'm still in 400 AD!!!

Back to playing!

--Kon--

[Arrian]

Hmm... I wonder if I destroyed my enemies too quickly.

Once I knocked out Rome (the city, not the civ) and Salamanca, I was facing archers & spearmen... against my vet/elite immortals. Perhaps I should have been a tad slower about picking them apart.

Now my target list is reduced to lone English warriors that are dropped off every few turns. I hope the English start bringing some more cannon fodder soon. That, or I'm going to have to take the fight to them (with my rather limited forces, that could be interesting).

-Arrian

[Konquest02]

@Arrian: You could have kept those civs alive and just knock their weak units coming at you to generate GLs. (It feels kinda wierd to say to Arrian that his GL generation could have been better! )

@Dom: Nicely played and, most of all, very thourough AAR. Very interesting to read. Keep up the good work!

@Dave: Good luck on Deity, you seem to be fine right now...

[OPD]

Arrrgh that damn Roman city is on a hill thats just really mean. Have already lost 5 archers failing to take it and now I see a legionary hanging round and it's only 2000 bc.

[OPD]

Played as the chinese on king.

Archer rushed the romans straight away with 2 archers but got there just as they built a spearman and got wiped out. Tried again with 4 archers but got screwed again.

Built barracks and sent 8 archers to the ironquios, the ones that weren't raped by MW were pitiful against another city on hills.

Then the Romans took my second city with a spearman! Killing my stlr in the process.

Being along way from IW I gave up.

[TheArsenal]

Not a detailed log (my game notes, and screenshots are at home) but a brief overview.

Playing China on Regent even though I am a Regent player. I have lived so far to 210AD and am in okay, but not optimal shape.

Built my city on the very spot I started went for warrior, warrior, barracks, granary, and then began cranking out archers. I garrisoned the first warrior and used the second to explore in a tight short circle around my first city. My strategy was not to make contact before I had a decent archer complement, and my total circle of exploration could not have been more two squares out from Beijing.

I met a Roman warrior and an Iroquois scout on consecutive turns, and earlier than I would have liked (being a huge/large map player I was caught way off guard at how close civs are). Traded techs, went to war. Over the course of the game I managed to seize three Roman cities, destroy one, and seize one Iroquois town and two workers. I cranked out two settlers myself, and placed both cities on the extended land masses adjacent to the ocean. They are both way closer to capital than normal, but are partly protected by the capital's garrison.

Where I stand: I am actively warring with the Romans, meaning I am entering their territory and fighting. I am holding a defensive posture against the Iroquois and letting them throw away units against a fortified, walled city.

What's good: with Beijing cranking out swordsman, and the early victories against Rome, it looks like I may get to Riders. I am producing a healthy amount of gpt. I recently met the Americans and bought myself back into the tech race.

What's bad: despite careful use of elites, and several decisive victories, no leaders. My culture is minimal. I am without a single Wonder.

[TheArsenal]

A few observations:

This is fun, but the most insane game I have ever played.

Games go a little faster when (after your initial meeting) diplomacy always goes like this:
"The Romans have requested an audience." "No not now."

Being a warmonger unable to extort techs puts puts one (me at least) at a serious disadvantage.

[Arrian]

It puts us all at a disadvantage. Believe me, I miss extortion. I'd be at least even, probably ahead, in tech right now if I could've used extortion. Instead, I'm lagging badly.

I wonder, can I get away with skipping Mil Tradition? I have control of my island. With a good road system (already mostly complete), bombard units (building cats now), and Immortals/Knights, I think I can. I don't think I could skip Chivalry too, though. Well.... maybe...

Those "optional" techs are tough sells when you cannot trade or extort.

GROG WANT TANK!

-Arrian

[Nor Me]

3 pages have appeared while I've been away for 15 hours. I played this yesterday but didn't have the time to post. So there's no chance of a proper AAR.

Emperor, China, as everyone else.

Realising that I may have to fight very early and had little to gain from exploring, my first build was a barracks. My worker first cleared the game forest to help with the first archer. Then came the second worker which might pay off for an inudtrious civ.

I met the Romans fairly quickly and realised they were close so I'd need a few more archers before thinking about expanding.

[Nor Me]

I know that alexman might not have seen AU401 so I can forgive him that.

But don't you ask yourself why did I meet just those 2 civs?

As a result, I've not seen either UU so far!


When I met the Iroquois, I guessed that:

1) the Romans had Iron

2) The Iroquois had horses

3) I had neither

I can cope with Mounted warriors, they are easy to kill but Legionaries need lots of catapults to stop them doing damage and they need tech.

So I had to archer rush Rome as fast as possible. As with AU207 and AU401 this meant no settlers even though I don't have the luxury of a free settler.

So Beijing built 7 archers and a spearmen before building a settler or granary. One worker built a road towards Rome.

My first attack on Rome was unsuccessful but fortunately they were unable to counterattack so I lost only one archer. It soon fell. Things started looking up when I got a great leader taking Veii which consequently build the Pyramids in 1750BC.

A spearman in the mountain range was always able to tell where the Iroquois were heading but even so defending both cores meant settler production was slow.

Gambling that Rome was built on Iron, I prepared to swordsmen rush the Iroquios. In 1600BC, I got a second leader from counterattacking Iroquois archers near Veii. That became an army of 1 archer. On reflection, I should have rushed the Colossus as the Heroic Epic is abit expensive for my poorly developed empire.

In 1250BC, a swordman travelling towards the Iroquois produced a third leader! On the same turn, the Babylonians built the Oracle. That leader became the Colossus in Shanghai.

It's 1075BC, I've taken Salamanca so probably have little to fear from the Iroquois. I've yet to see if it was founded on the only accessible horses but if so then I'm not going to face MWs as well as legionaries.

From F11 literacy, no-one has literature. Only the Great Lighthouse could be being used as a prebuild so I think I'm likely to get the Great Library.

I've got a couple of settlers wondering around but I desperately need more cities to approximate sensible development.

[BigDork]

Originally posted by OPD
Arrrgh that damn Roman city is on a hill thats just really mean. Have already lost 5 archers failing to take it and now I see a legionary hanging round and it's only 2000 bc.

That sounds just like my first game.

BigD

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by Arrian
I wonder, can I get away with skipping Mil Tradition? I have control of my island. With a good road system (already mostly complete), bombard units (building cats now), and Immortals/Knights, I think I can. I don't think I could skip Chivalry too, though. Well.... maybe...

Those "optional" techs are tough sells when you cannot trade or extort.

GROG WANT TANK!

Yeah, I'm wondering about that. Do I skip Riders in favour of a GA after the Great Library is obsolete which is when I'll need the tech? But that would also mean skipping Sun'Tzu's and Leo's since I have the Pyramids.

The other thing I'm wondering about is:

Despotism -> Republic -> Communism

If I can hold off contact until I get a large jump from the Great Library while hording cash and then be able to steal tech with it later on.

If I can build enough courthouses, Communsim might be better than Monarchy in the AU mod even with reasonable FP+Palace placement.