AU208: Total Eternal Forever War - Reports and Comments - Page 5

Nor Me · June 1, 2003, 21:00

vmax1, Imtoops, are you sure this is that hard at Emperor?

I've not played since Thursday and am far from the end but it still looks as if I'm going to do O. K. even with what I've read here.

Of course, I wouldn't think of playing this or any AU game designed by alexman now at Deity.

Dominae · June 1, 2003, 22:47

Nor Me, in this scenario, do not assume that conquering the home continent is even close to sealing up the game. You should have an interesting time ahead of you.

Dominae

Panzer32 · June 1, 2003, 23:27

Continuing my game...

In 110 AD, Babylon gets the great library. I go for the Great Lighthouse, as it is the only other wonder I can build. But the next turn, someone else gets the great lighthouse. I have to waste 168 shields on a plain library.

280ad: I'm slowly making process on expanding my empire while shrinking the empires of the others. I have a plan in place to connect to Iron soon, and since I have been saving up money, I'll make alot of warriors to upgrade to swordsmen. Hopefully then I'll be able to deal with Rome.

310ad: GREAT LEADER!! I don't have any wonders to complete, so I'm making a Numidian Mercenary army. 1 elite and 2 veterans.

Panzer32 · June 1, 2003, 23:28

400ad: Progress is going well, just a few turns until I get hooked up to Iron and upgrade all the warriors I'm churning out. I have 1775 gold currently; I start to research at full pace (only at 40% without losing gold). Researching polytheism after I finished mathematics.

Just got another leader!! The problem is that I don't have any wonders to build, and I don't have a good FP city settled. But first, before I decide what to do with "Mago", I have to get him home safely!

I decide to hold onto him for a bit, until I conquer or build a good FP site.

430ad: My army is victorious! I take a big bite out of the Iroquois by razing their second largest city, Niagara Falls. See pic.

Panzer32 · June 1, 2003, 23:29

450ad: Iron connected. 17 warriors upgraded to swordsmen. Heroic epic rushed in Carthage (still need to wait for a good FP site).

520ad: Attacked Rome with 16 swordsmen, 3 numidian mercenaries, and 2 archers... and after 7 swordsmen died in the attack, my elite numidian mercenary took the last Roman legion standing. No leader though

See pic.

Rome is crippled. I have taken their source of iron, and it will be only time before I have destroyed the remains of their once great empire.

540ad: I meet the Indians after they settle a city in the place I was going to... this means war!

Of course, I must exhort tech first...

I get construction, monarchy, philosophy, horseback riding, and currency for a mere contact, world map, 172 gold, and 29 gold per 0 turns!!

At this point, I decide to beline for chivalry. I currently do not have horses in the strategic resources box, and thus cannot use knights until I get them hooked up. By that time rolls around, I hope to be well on my way to chivalry.

560ad: Indian City destroyed; one roman city captured, another destroyed.

600ad: Mincemeat made of Ravenna; Romans struggling witout Iron.

680ad: Contact with the Americans and Babylonians. Techs before war!

Also, Salamanca taken and razed.

710ad: Romans destroyed.

More to come later!! Time for builder mode

CorpusScorpius · June 1, 2003, 23:41

It is 1275 AD in the Zulu Empire & according to The histographic chart Shaka is leading but I get the feeling that the Powers that be will change that

CorpusScorpius · June 1, 2003, 23:51

Update 1390 AD, I have managed to gain & lose a few cities on the English homeland. I made a few mistakes in my game so far

1. I didnt milk the Roman & Iroquois Cities for leaders
2.I built way too many cities too early.
3. I destroyed an English city that was really IMPORTANT

& had to rebuild one in its place.
4.I didnt scout out the english city in question & could of had saltpeter alot earlier.

vmxa1 · June 2, 2003, 04:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Nor Me
vmax1, Imtoops, are you sure this is that hard at Emperor?

I've not played since Thursday and am far from the end but it still looks as if I'm going to do O. K. even with what I've read here.

Of course, I wouldn't think of playing this or any AU game designed by alexman now at Deity.

Well I suspect it will be be extremely hard, but I have been wrong before.
As was mentioned by Dom, getting your land mass under control, is not given you the game. In fact I think you will find the bad news is not far away at that time.
Now I played this game too conservatively, that hurt me.
I have possibly mismanaged things, as I will probably never get another wonder after the Pyramids. I had 10 leaders so far, but could not do much with them. No wonders available, so I used them for structures to allow the chance to get more. I have cleared all but one Roman city out on a finger area. No civs eliminated as they must have at least one city elsewhere.
I have a Rider army and two sword armies and 1 mixed army. I have the Epic and the Pentagon. These are 4 unit armies. Basically Iroq and Rome could do nothing against them.
Now the prolems will start to show up.
1- cities are hard to keep from disorder
2 - way behind in tech
3 - no saltpeter
4 - not built any navy
5 - Americans must be super strong as they have gotten nearly all of the wonders.

Good news is that I have not had contact with other civs, so they have not come after me yet.
No fleet as it is pointless to make galleys with others having Man O war and probably ironclads.
I have not been able to switch goverments, due to pressing need for units.
I have prepared for it by slowly getting most cities into wealth. The switch wll not hurt as much and I will do it now. I have no real need of more units as nothing much is coming until some one else shows up.
As we say in the poker clubs, I am drawing dead. It is just a matter of who will show up with Calv or MI and smash me. No saltpetter so having Gunpowder is not much of a help. Riders were able to turn the tide on MW and Legions with ease.

Arrian · June 2, 2003, 08:30

I've played up to 1305AD now. I've just hit the Industrial Age (nationalism free, researching steam power).

The AI (mostly America... damn they're strong) is dropping off rifles & cav with increasing frequency. The Americans have a huge fleet of frigates and are bombarding my West coast. So far it isn't too bad. I'm holding.

I made an exploring/pillaging landing in England with knights & a pike or two. I broke some things and can now see nearly all of their land. But I did lose the entire force, and most of the caravels that got them there. *sigh*

The Americans and English are DEMOCRACIES! Damnit! They were republics for a long time, and now are demos, all the while fighting me. WTF?!?! I don't think I can beat 'em unless I can get them down into Monarchy (or Commie).

-Arrian

AJ Corp. The FAIR · June 2, 2003, 09:13

After two first shots with Greece on emperor, I've decided to give the Zulu a try, as they're militaristic and have a fast, good defender, the Impi.

Zulu, emperor, first game.

To be short: already much better than with Greece, but not good enough as I didn't have iron, and didn't take Rome from the beginning, crucial for success. I abandoned in 510 AD, had 1 army, 16 Impi, 12 catapults and some archers and warriors. I've resisted a long time to Legionaries, especially with catapults, but I've decided to start a second time, because I could do much better with Zulu.

Zulu, emperor, second game.

Yes, yes, yes, I've razed Rome around 1650 BC!
I only focused on building barracks and archers and did the good old archer rush on them. I was lucky however to have exploited AI's 'unintelligence'. Roman armies were following one single archer always moving up one tile and descending one the next turn, so they couldn't kill it, meanwhile allowing me to mass archers in preparation for a deadly assault on Rome, which I've immediately razed. I've later found my own city on the 'ideal' site. Iron soon was to be mine.

AJ

AJ Corp. The FAIR · June 2, 2003, 09:21

Around 1525 I had around 11 archers which I sent to the Iroquois as I wanted to take their capitol too, but I soon realized I didn't stand a chance with their tougher than expected resistance. So I used them to take out 3 minor border cities, razing them and forcing the Iroquois to lose time resettling these sites.

With a granary in Zimbabwe I soon started REXing. As I wanted to postpone my golden age, I didn't build Impi yet. By the time I had around 6 cities and good defenders became totally needed, I started building them in large numbers, effectively triggering my GA in 550 BC.

Man, was I proud on my first swordsmen after 3 other AU208 attempts.

AJ

AJ Corp. The FAIR · June 2, 2003, 09:33

In 330 AD I got wheel, ceremonial and literature from Cleopatra for 10 gpt and the English 'gave' me mysticism, maths, philosophy, map making, code of laws and horseback riding for communications.

To my great disappointment, in a total war scenario with a mil civ !!!!!!, I got my first -so far only- Great Leader in 450 AD, a couple of truns after the English built Great Library

Right now it's rather difficult to finish the Iroquois fast, as my attacking forces are not large and Iro MW's prove stronge as counter attackers. But Impi, I just love them.

So far I've managed to settle quite some cities, razing/capturing a couple minor Iro border cities, as I hope that I can take them out one at a time, to eventually take their capitol.

Right now I'm trying to have some temples built, delaying my mil output, which might not be the best bet I've taken so far. Also wondering how to use my Great Leader, The best site for FP is not yet in my reach, wonders unavailable.

AJ

UnOrthOdOx · June 2, 2003, 09:34

Ill get some screenies up later.

My second game is going much better in some ways, and much worse in others.

I again chose Mongols on Emperor more out of stubborness than any real thought...

The Expansionist crap shoot did not pay off this game, 4 huts, 1 warrior, ceremonial, 50 gold and a map...

My archer rush on Rome faired much better - NO LOSSES, and I immediately turned them north to destroy Rome completely then east to meat up with newer troops to take out the Iriquois. Leaving the Iriquois with a few cities I thought I would milk them for leaders.

This is where my luck has sucked completely. At present, I have had 63 elite victories and 0 leaders. I lost the library by 3 turns to America, and things are not looking very good in terms of my losing the tech race. I did make a killer deal with England when I met here gaining 4 techs for Lit + 60 gold and contact with the Iriquois (course there was about 30 GPT mixed in there as well, but we need not worry about that now do we?). I have a large swordsman army and England is still in Ancient age, my first galleys have come into being and I am moving to take England on a small island to the SW as a stepping stone to the larger England. 5 turns to Monarchy.

badams52 · June 2, 2003, 11:22

Some great games out there and I love reading all of your AARs,. but would somebody please win this game?!?!!? I keep waiting and waiting for a report of someone who actually wins!

props to alexman for such a difficult scenario

Arrian · June 2, 2003, 12:13

badams,

I intend to try. But it's getting nasty. I'm not gonna lose militarily, but the American fleet is getting annoying, and the Anglo-American democracy phenomenon is really pissing me off. I desperately need to snag ToE. I might even forgo Industrialization for a bit to make sure I get it (prebuild or leader - I have the HE now). Steam Power is taking my something like 8 turns at a small loss of gpt, and of course I have almost no reserve of cash.

I need infantry/artillery/transports/destroyers and lots of them. Then I'm going to break things. Slowly. Carefully. And I'm going to enjoy it.

-Arrian

ZargonX · June 2, 2003, 14:54

The Story of the Joyfully Aggressive Chinese:

The early years of the Chinese empire were filled with a desire to go forth and explore the world, find new civilizations, and beat on them for a while. Our early explorations brought great fortune immediately: a settler wishing to join us quite close to our capital. This was an extra fortunate find, as a turn later, an Iroquois scout arrived next to the former hut. Filled the joyous spirit of war, our warrior destroyed the scout, entering us into what would be several thousand years of non-stop battle.
Meanwhile, in the east, our scouts spotted the Roman borders, but avoided contact so as to give us time to prepare. In readying for the upcoming war, our industrious people engaged in the mighty public works project: War Road to Rome. With the war road complete, we made contact just in time to flood a small horde of archers onto the Roman capital, which fell easily. A side benefit of the war road was that the Iron that turned out to be under Rome was quickly connected to the rest of the empire.
From this point on, the Romans would be a non-issue, as deprived of iron, they were a second-rate empire.

ZargonX · June 2, 2003, 15:05

With the Romans effectively out of the way, and with mop-up swords soon to finish them off, we turned our full offensive attention to the Iroquois menace, who were more menacing with their now rapidly appearing mounted warriors. So, to combat their speed and mobility, it was time for War Road II: The Road to Salamanca.

This road was more of a challenge to build, with assaults from Iroquois raiding parties threatening to steal way my workers. A heavy dose of swords and spears managed to hold them at bay long enough, however, for the Chinese to make some good progress into the Iroquois territory.
Then, in an odd but beneficial occurance, one my forces destroyed the Iroquois city shown in the above image, the Iroquois never produced another mounted warrior. I don't know why, as their horses were not located there, but it happened nonetheless. This made the rest of the conquest very simple, and in a few hundred years, the last vestiges of both the Iroquois and the Romans were wiped off the continent. During the remaining years of war, we gained but a single Great Leader, who gave his life to speeding the completion of the Great Library, the only wonder in my people's possesion. Also, the English made a few attempted settlements on my southern lands, but were met swiftly and escorted off the island in caskets.

ZargonX · June 2, 2003, 15:12

Following the securing of my home continent, I was allowed a brief period of rest to regroup and build up. The English were no direct threat, and I was not quite ready to assault them on their home island yet.
My respite did not last long, however, as soon the Babylonians came calling on my western shores. They landed and settled before making contact, though once contact was made, it proved a double-edged sword. The Bab contact brought, of course, another war, but it also brought a flood of technologies thanks to the GL, propelling me onto equal footing with the rest of the world. However, it also brought 3 more civs into contact with me, which meant 3 more wars.
However, with our new Riders ready to march out, I tackled the new invaders and pushed them off the island. Also, with better ships, I staged an invasion of the English island, taking their northernmost cities. Half of my invasion force was pushed back, but thanks to the most amazing defenses of "Lucky" the rider, I held on to Dover against massive 3 civ-assaults, as well as gained a new GL.

During his defensive streak, Lucky killed of 10 Indian war elephants, 7 med. inf., and a few varied swords. His name will live on in the annals of history for that feat.

ZargonX · June 2, 2003, 15:15

Things were looking tough for the Chinese, as we had assaults coming in on all sides, and little forces left to spare to try and invade abroad. On top of that, no saltpeter at home meant we'd have to stage another push into England to get some. This would have been possible, but then some bad news showed up on our doorstep...

English cavalry... Lucky's chances of holding out against them were slim. And simultaneously with that several American riflemen and cavalry landed on my NW coast, with my cities still only defended by pikes. Though they have made no gains yet, I fear this is only the beginning of an upcoming massive onslaught. The Chinese people may be forced into fighting a long, losing battle for our homelands. Unless somethign amazing turns the tide, I think our glory days may soon come to an end...

ZargonX · June 2, 2003, 15:37

And with that story told, King me

vmxa1 · June 2, 2003, 15:40

ZargonX that sounds about as good of a shot as any so far. It seems to be going about as I had expected. A good job would be to be able to hold on till the game ends and lose by not being eliminated.
All of those that failed to get the GL and not have much contact are in real trouble (me). No GL means all (except the contact trade) tech must be researched.
I am not so sure I have the fortitude to take another run. I do see how if you could get the GL and had saltpetter, you would have a chance. Otherwise, I am dubious.
I will get back to it tonight and probably met my demise then (I predict 1800'S, that will be a morale victory).

badams52 · June 2, 2003, 17:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
badams,

I intend to try. But it's getting nasty. I'm not gonna lose militarily, but the American fleet is getting annoying, and the Anglo-American democracy phenomenon is really pissing me off. I desperately need to snag ToE. I might even forgo Industrialization for a bit to make sure I get it (prebuild or leader - I have the HE now). Steam Power is taking my something like 8 turns at a small loss of gpt, and of course I have almost no reserve of cash.

I need infantry/artillery/transports/destroyers and lots of them. Then I'm going to break things. Slowly. Carefully. And I'm going to enjoy it.

-Arrian

Look forward to seeing your results as you seem closest to finishing with a victory.

What I'm learning from all your reports: no trade + lack of resources = very tough scenario. Denying resources and having your own are two of the most important items for winning wars. That and fighting the AI one at a time.

Good luck all, and I cannot wait to see your reports of victory!

Nor Me · June 2, 2003, 19:37

I didn't mean to imply that this game is easy. It's just that there are some players whom I would be surprised to see lose either before or now on levels below deity. I still think that a hypothetical good enough civ player would have a very decent chance of starting well and a near certainty of winning given that on Emperor.

This is my position at 800AD. Can someone tell me why it's supposed to be hopeless

.

On tech, no one has physics, the Babylonians have Democracy and I suspect another civ has metallurgy. I have saltpetre and just have to hope that alexman has not been so cruel with coal, oil or rubber. The English are down to 0 cities but have a settler on a boat somewhere. The Iroquois are still alive; I'm thinking about killing them soon

. On wonders, I've just lost Smith's but otherwise have only dropped the less important Oracle, Great Lighthouse and Copernicus'. I've built almost everything pre-Education even having cathedrals almost everywhere which is overkill considering all my happiness wonders.

Here's the minimap:

BigDork · June 2, 2003, 20:05

Good Lord Nor Me, you're kicking some butt. I kinda put 208 on the back burner while I finished up a game I had started previously but I intend to get back soon and get utterly humiliated some more.

BigD

Dominae · June 2, 2003, 20:27

Quote:

I still think that a hypothetical good enough civ player would have a very decent chance of starting well and a near certainty of winning given that on Emperor.

Your overconfidence is your weakness...

vmxa1 · June 2, 2003, 20:40

If I were in the shape your are in I would feel better. I have had only one wonder inspite of 10 leaders so far. No tech, only got one from Iroq and one from Rome upon contact, none from England they had nothing. I have yet to meet any others, even though I have seen a few ship pass by.
No saltpeter so far and I control all but one city on my land mass.
Since I have not learned navigation, I can only make galley. They can not be upgrade, so why bother? England would have sunk them. I guess it may have been worth trying for contact, not sure. I took the position that contact would mean more troops coming my way. This may be an error, I may have benefitted from a few more techs, if I could have gotten them and cheaper research due to more civs with discovered tech.
Anyway without the saltpeter, I see doom.
I do not think the level is all that important, if all the other things come to pass (low tech trade, low contact, no early resources, 1 lux). Speaking of lux when I stopped last night, I killed a city out on a finger that had gems near it.
So has soon as my culture border expands, I will have that. I may send one of the tons of captured workers to make a colony.
I have workers with nothing to do, I have so many.
Anyway I do agree that I did expect a few players here to be able to handle it, but it is going to require some breaks and good play. It looks like I am going to miss on both accounts.

Theseus · June 2, 2003, 22:28

HOLY CR*P!!!!!

Of course, this had to happen to me, Mr. Mixed-Unit Army!!

I've played out the start, um, 3-4 times so far, as Scandinavia on Emperor.

I'm trying again tonight, having built on the furs, gotten two (!!) Settlers from huts, and just going after Rome as hard and fast two Spears and eight vet Archers.

I've destroyed two Roman towns, and am now approaching Rome itself... 1500 BC, and what do I behold?

Theseus · June 2, 2003, 22:31

Ahhhh, but all is not lost!!!

Soren obviously never read "On the Utility and Use of Armies"!!!

Theseus · June 2, 2003, 22:34

First, the northern Legion took out my 4hp vet Spear.

Then, the Army attacked...

The Legion takes two hps off of my 4/5 elite Spear... the Legion retreats, and the vet Warrior takes one hp... REDLINED...

And then that tough SOB took the next 7 Warrior hps in a row... DAMN, best thing I ever saw.

nbarclay · June 2, 2003, 22:52

I'm too tired to start on a full-scale report right now, but I've played (Monarch, AU Rules) to 10 BC and just secured full control of my continent. Getting iron hooked up was a bit problematical - this is one of only a handful of times I've used a colony - but once I finally got the forces to feel comfortable defending a colony, it was all downhill. My first immortal strike force swept around to take out the Iroquois, and then a second force moved in on Rome. (Through the early part of the war, Rome's legions tended to commit suicide against heavily defended spearmen.)

I have two leaders so far, more or less bookends on my military campaign. The first, I think from my first elite battle (using an archer), got me the Pyramids. The second, obtained as the fighting was winding down, built my Forbidden Palace near the center of the continent. Interestingly, it appears that I built my FP in exactly the same place Arrian built his.

My problem is that after researching Pottery ASAP, I dropped back into a 40-turn pace for Iron Working, then Mathematics, and then Construction (which I'm currently five turns away from). So my research position is an absolute disaster. The question is, how much ground can I make up with a gold surplus of a little over 1200 (to which another 250 or so will be added by the time I get Construction)? (I'd originally thought I would probably cut my iron in order to upgrade more warriors to immortals, but I ended up not needing to.)

My current plans hinge on going into Republic (once I research the techs) and confining my fighting to defensive operations for quite some time. I'm currently second in GNP and Productivity and first in Mfg. Goods in spite of having enormous amounts of open space near my FP and practically no city improvements (other than barracks, of course), so I think my prospects of getting back in the game are good. And having the Pyramids will certainly help in building up new cities now that troop production is no longer such an issue.

Nathan