What aspect of civ do you dislike most?

Rufus T. Firefly · February 23, 2001, 06:28

Just wondering what bugs us. My vote: a civ being able to steal and use techs regardless of its place on the tech tree. Nothing makes me froth at the mouth like finding myself in a space race with a civ that is attacking me with elephants and legions. It's never much of a race, granted, but the whole thing just irks me. What irks you?

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

Chris 62 · February 23, 2001, 07:03

The end-game, when I have 100 plus cities and have to micro-manage all those units. I hate giving the AI control of my cities. Also all the wonders have been built and my throne room is complete, so there is nothing new to look forward to till AC. The game just drags on till the SS lands.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

Gothmog · February 23, 2001, 09:02

Some aspects of the Space Race.
~ Even if you discover space flight first, it immediately get stolen from you.
~ The other tribes start rush building the space ship and you have to close down all of those dialog boxes.
~ It's tedious to plan the spaceship production.

Fortunately, there is the bloodlust option.

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"There is no tiddle-taddle nor pibble-pabble in Pompey's camp."

DaveV · February 23, 2001, 09:13

Trade. The interface is a nightmare, with all kinds of clicking to different windows to determine the information you need. To trade efficiently, you need to keep track of commodities supplied, demanded, and enroute to all cities. Isn't the computer supposed to do all this bookkeeping for you?

Tizzy · February 23, 2001, 09:33

I really dislike the way the AI can build half a spaceship worth of structurals two seconds after discovering Space Flight!!!
I wish I could do that!

February 23, 2001, 10:41

I agree with DaveV that trading those commodities is the most tedious and frustrating thing to do. Especially when the demands (and supplies of course) get changing all the time. Quite typically this happens just before your caravan ship reaches that far away foreign city. Pisses me off!

George Garrett · February 23, 2001, 14:00

I think I'm miffed, mostly, by them there spies that swoop in from the cold dark nowhere, to pinch my latest
advance without giving me a chance to eject them.
I avoid all the above beefs about caravans by using them exlusively for Wonders, explorers,food supplies to an ailing city, defenders (they're bonny fighters, more than once observed them "decorated for valour" after seenig off some heavy duty military unit which attacked them)Anything, except for tedious trading.
Lately, in my games, the AI seems to be trying to make up for my lack of trading, by sending me their caravans, thus rewarding my own apathy!
It follows, in response to Rufus's other question, that caravans/freights, along with settlers/engineers and paratroops are my Civ2 favourites

Roman · February 23, 2001, 14:10

It is extremely cheap to bribe foreign cities and the price is not even affected by the number of units inside!

This way, it is possible to win a conquest game without having any army to speak of.

Bereta_Eder · February 23, 2001, 21:23

Having a ship go half the world to deliver uranium to the only city that demands it and watch it change to copper one turn before my ship gets there.

The democracy blatant cheats. The ability of enemy democracies to act like they have a terrorist for president and the people don't care.

The choice of keeping just for the sake of it, or go ahead and demolish a city that my explorer gets from a hut in a far away empty continent.

Craftsman · February 23, 2001, 22:34

I hate when the computer cheats during a game.
It bribes w/o diplo units, it makes sneak attacks
w/o worries about the "international community"
(i.e. Always Spotless, I guess...) Grrrr

In my last game, as the French, I was with a Carrier with eight bombers stacked with a Battleship, near the cost of the Americans. At recent Cease-Fire, I decided to retreat two or three squares away them, to cool the things...

As I was with UN, at the moment I passed the turn, a window popped up to tell me that they have discovered Rocketry. Immediately, a barrage of three American Cruise Missiles almost took out my entire stack!!! Thanks for the Battleship, my Carrier survived.
What´s that? When I discover anything, even if I change my production and buy the new whatever, I have to *wait* until the next turn! GRRRRRR

This things make me remember of Master of Orion, but this is for some other forum...

Gatekeeper · February 24, 2001, 03:42

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 02-23-2001 01:10 PM
It is extremely cheap to bribe foreign cities and the price is not even affected by the number of units inside!

This way, it is possible to win a conquest game without having any army to speak of.

If only I had your luck, Roman. Very rarely — especially in the later stages of the game — can I ever get a city for less than 8000 gold. A well-built and distant city can run up to 25,000 gold to bribe. Mind you, these are cities that typically belong to either the first place AI player and/or the second/third place AI players. Smaller and/or weaker civs can be cheaper to bribe, but not always.

BTW, number of units *do* affect the cost of bribing. After taking out half the defenders, I often find a city at least a quarter cheaper than before (i.e. 8000 to 6000).

Regarding my own dislike of Civ II, it would be the fact that the AI can steal your most advanced techs (even w/veteran spies defending!) and then race you for AC or world dominance. That's crap. It's ludicrous that a medieval society can suddenly steal spaceflight and then take off for the stars 30 years later, IMHO.

CYBERAmazon

Craftsman · February 24, 2001, 10:35

Yes, another thing that bugs me...
When a spy or diplo of other civ successfull steals a tech of mine, it´s always the higher tech!

When *I* try to steal Mobile Warfare from them, my veteran spy is vaporyzed. Or steals Refrigeration instead (oh, no!)... GRRRRRR

Note: the foreign spies/diplos are *always* succesfull in their operations (at least against my civ).

MacUser · February 24, 2001, 20:43

Agree with DaveV. The trade window is WAY too difficult. We ought to be able to print a trade list of all available routes and supplies. AI spies annoy me, but the Trade issue is a pain in EVERY game!

Hope someone mentioned this in the Civ3 suggestion forum!

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Be what you is and not what you is not. Folks who do that are the happiest lot!
- Mr. Wizard the Lizard,

Masis · February 24, 2001, 22:26

The only aspect I can find that is a damper on Civ II is the fact that the pictures of the leaders can not be altered-i.e. I have a scenarios set during the post Roman era of Britain, got the Celts for the Picts, got the Vikings for the Gallo-Romans, Got the Americans for the British allied tribes, got the Babylonians for the Scots, got the English for the Saxons, got the Spanish for the Agnles/Jutes-1 left that plays the role of the Irish and I have the options of using either Indians, Mongols or Sioux so I go for Sioux to represent the Tribal-pastoral lifestyle of the Irish but if I could have another Celtic picture to represent the Irish as well that would be nice as well as the British allies and Scots...
Maybe Civ III may allow this to happen...
Though all in all Civ is a really good game and I have played other 'historical' game programs and I think Civ beats them for offering an opportunity to step into the role of Historical figures and see why things went the way they did in History through designing scenarios...giving yourself an History education that you would only get at University level.
So I have really nothing to moan about as far as Civ goes.
Sorry.

"I'm not quite dead yet Sire" Concord the horse to Sir Lancelot-Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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MRP

Father Beast · February 24, 2001, 22:31

you mean BESIDES roman already mentioned bribing cities?...

It would be the Apollo Program and manhattan Project, which instantly give all civs the benefits of a wonder they didn't contribute a caravan to.

how many times have I finished Apollo, to find the next civ over building about 15 spaceship parts the next turn? Grrrr...

sulla · February 25, 2001, 22:53

I would have to say to say that when I put the Barbs on raging hordes (which I always do) and they have twenty units by my city but they all stink. I have armor,infantrymen,and howitzers and they're still in the stone age. It is very annoying to go and mop up all the barbarians and then have another twenty arrive to mop up again. It ties down resources and prolongs the game.

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Sulla-The last dictator of Rome before Caesar. He changed Rome and Rome sure as hell changed him.

War4ever · February 26, 2001, 22:49

i hate having a hundred engineers running around with nothing to do and nowhwere to colonize

colossus · February 27, 2001, 04:16

One thing I hate most! The AI is always cheating to know the whereabouts of my units and cities.

They always know where my newly founded unguarded cities are and are apt to capture them. It is very irriatating in the early game.

Dis · February 27, 2001, 07:33

too many to list- yet it is my favourite game- intersting

ai building cities in your 'territory' (one feature I loved in smac- although it still had flaws). or having units roam around in your territory- I'm usually don't declare war in democracy

ai in general

actually that is all I can think of right now

most relate to the ai

cpemma · February 28, 2001, 19:01

I wish the ZOC didn't apply to settlers/engineers - a friendly furriner always seems to stop me road-building or irrigating

And I hate nuclear missiles. The AI never uses them tactically, just wholesale destruction.

Case · February 28, 2001, 20:20

Sitting through all the moves the AI makes can be a real pain in the neck. Especially when you're allied to a civ...

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith

Zulu Elephant · March 3, 2001, 00:51

Sitting through the other civs turns in the later stages of the game
You cant even do something else like read or play solitare cos those stupid dialog boxes come up that have no bearing on you

George Garrett · March 3, 2001, 10:26

Oh, but Zulu, they do, sometimes. I used to be bored rigid towards the end of some of my (invariably)long Chieftain games, but, now I closely watch the AI moves, for spies/dips lurking to pick my pockets, or some perisher to pick off my picquets, in times of war

The Mad Monk · March 3, 2001, 11:37

The one thing that really annoys me is that you can't choose which techs to give to the AIs; I always enjoyed selectively passing out techs to the weaker AIs in MoO2 (giving them good armor and weapons just as that megafleet from the silicoids arrives to wipe them out, or just spreading the love with terraforming and planet construction), but that becomes impossible when both of the techs they want are techs you'd rather not let them have...

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The Mad Monk

"The sun shines to-day, also."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Vlad Antlerkov · March 3, 2001, 20:00

One of the things that irks me is that the AI seems to be able switch production during your turn. For example, I've seen AI cities sending up SS Structurals at AD 1- while human players have to wait until AD 1 (and not before then) to start construction of spaceships. Also, they can complete construction of things the same turn they discover the preq advance.

That, plus the AI changing their demands the turn before you get a caravan that's traveled halfway around the world to that city...

Makes me want to nuke 'em...

Of course, my nukes get shot down, since they stole The Laser from me and cheated to build SDI defenses...

Vlad Antlerkov · March 3, 2001, 20:00

Remember, you didn't see me make this post...

[This message has been edited by Vlad Antlerkov (edited March 03, 2001).]

Hasdrubal · March 5, 2001, 06:11

The tedious endgame, when you know you've won but you still have to play for hours and hours, either waiting for your spaceship to arrive or cleaning up the last remainders of your defeated enemies. Consequently, I've got tons of unfinished games sitting on my harddrive, waiting for completion.

Shaka Naldur · March 5, 2001, 17:48

how stupid the AI is,

he isn´t able to do an attack in good conditions

Vlad Antlerkov · March 5, 2001, 19:33

quote:

Originally posted by Shaka Naldur on 03-05-2001 04:48 PM
how stupid the AI is,

he isn´t able to do an attack in good conditions

Yep- the AI is simply too stupid to win. That's why it's allowed to cheat so damn much.

Marquis de Sodaq · March 6, 2001, 14:40

D'accord to those who hate the AI building something the moment it discovers the tech. Also, when the barbarian leader vanishes the turn his last follower commits suicide against your walls, giving you no chance to run him down like the dog he is. Barbarian leaders can be such a good source of income! But most of all, the AI knowledge of the entire map ticks me off. Before you can even build a defender, eight enemy units are racing to your town.