Timing of getting the weather paradigm

Snowflake · June 2, 2003, 10:45

I read from a lot of places that you should get the weather paradigm as soon as possible. Now that I've got it and my formers have set up boreholes but they only produces 0,2,2 because I don't have the tech. Is that a waste of time when I should build something that is currently more useful?

Method · June 2, 2003, 11:02

always get the WP as soon as you can. it not only allows construction of boreholes, condensors, etc. sooner than normal, but it increases former work rate by 50% (IIRC)

but like you say, boreholes are useless until ecological engineering anyways, so you should spend your time building things you can actually use until you get the tech. the WP is a really great thing to have so don't build something else. instead, just wait until you get the tech before building the boreholes

Jamski · June 2, 2003, 11:34

I always beeline for the WP, IMO its one of the best SPs in the game. I'm often willing to sacrifice expansion to get this project, and I'll always use early game Artifacts to hurry its production. Then its time to get some condensors + farms on Nut bonuses for +7 nutrients

Then a few drill to aquifer orders often help a LOT in the long run. Then start on the forest planting.... soon you will have the tech for lifting the restrictions.

-Jam

Snowflake · June 2, 2003, 14:34

Thanks for the reminder. I only planted forest on my nut bonus square since I know farm is not going to give me more before the gene splicing. Now is the limitation binding for the condersors/soil enrichers?

Nax · June 2, 2003, 15:22

I thought bonus squares and base squares were immune to FOP restrictions...

Maniac · June 2, 2003, 15:35

They are. HongHu can build a farm on nutrient bonus squares without any restrictions.

CEO Aaron · June 2, 2003, 15:52

Remember that drilling aquifers and digging boreholes are counterproductive in the long run, since boreholes make rivers disappear. Use of aquifers is best restricted to an all-forest terraforming plan.

Flubber · June 2, 2003, 16:05

Quote:

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
Remember that drilling aquifers and digging boreholes are counterproductive in the long run, since boreholes make rivers disappear. Use of aquifers is best restricted to an all-forest terraforming plan.

I always figured that it made quite a waterfall where a river fell into the borehole.

If you begin boreholing at the coast the impact on rivers will be minimal -- the uphill portions of the river should be unaffected

Ogie Oglethorpe · June 2, 2003, 17:48

Condensors and Farms on a rainy allow 4 nuts pre Gene Splice. This is an exception to the restrictions and DOES NOT require a special to allow this exception. With nut specials as previously indicated it allows 7 pre gene splice.

This exception to restricition lifting is especially critical for a blind/tech stag game (say as a worst case Miriam) who would like to pop boom but can't aquire the requisite nuts to sustain the boom as the requisite restriction liftng techs may come as late as 100-200+ years. In any event aquiring WP allows some freedom of choice in your tech beelines. Rather than being forced towards planetary econ to allow tree farms and a subsequent pop boom, you can look at more warrior like ways of going towards D:AP/MMI and fusion or if you desire more builderish ways towards clean reactors for intensive former builds and massive t-forming projects, while still having an ability to gather requisiste nuts to allow pop booms.

All in all WP IMO is the One SP that kills for all factions and if your going to get one and only one it should be WP.

Rubin · June 2, 2003, 18:45

I usually find it very rewarding to have a borehole on top of a mineral rich square. This negates the effect of the underlying terrain - rocky/rolling/flat - and produces 8 mineral + 2 energy. The same often goes for energy rich squares: 2 mineral + 8 energy.

If it takes too long to get the restrictions lifted, I crawl them in!

The Weather Paradigm is the ONLY Secret Project I would HATE to miss

Fido Dido · June 2, 2003, 18:49

What's all this about having condensers and farms on the same square?!

Jamski · June 2, 2003, 18:57

Its a way of beating the restrictions on nut production befor the limit is removed.

-Jam

gwillybj · June 3, 2003, 01:31

The Weather Paradigm does not enable the Drill to Aquifer order. It enables only Boreholes, Condensors, and Raise/Lower Elevation, along with the increased terraforming rate. You still have to wait for Ecological Engineering for the Drill to Aquifer order.

A note about the terraforming rate, because many misunderstand the mathematics: It speeds terraforming by 50%, which means in each turn a Former will do 1.5 (=3/2) times the normal work. The result is that it takes 2/3 the normal time to complete a task, not 1/2. For example, a Solar Collector normally takes 6 turns to complete. With The Weather Paradigm, it takes 4 turns, not 3.

Rubin · June 3, 2003, 08:12

gwillybj, aren't you thinking maybe of soil enrichers? I just checked, and I'm perfectly able to Drill to Aquifer once the Weather Paradigm is complete...

Thanks for the note on terraform rates

gwillybj · June 4, 2003, 00:40

O woe is me

! How can it be

?

Quote:

The Weather Paradigm
Increases terraforming speed by 50% for all tasks except for Remove Fungus. Your formers may build Condensors and Boreholes, and may raise/lower terrain, even if you have not yet discovered the appropriate technologies.

Rubin: No, Soil Enricher is Advanced Ecological Engineering.
I was quoting the documentation, which is identical (as quoted in this post) in three places: the in-game Help, the Manual, and the Prima guide. So I checked with the Scenario Editor, to be sure, and not only does the documentation omit Drill to Aquifer, but Echelon Mirror is also enabled

! So that means all terraforming orders normally reserved until Ecological Engineering, except Plant Fungus, are enabled by The Weather Paradigm!

The documentation is correct in that Remove Fungus is not speeded.

Thanks for the friendly heads-up

!

Mongoose · June 4, 2003, 08:07

Bunkers? Available with WP, or still require AMA?

Jac de Molay · June 4, 2003, 08:58

I think you need AMA, IIRC.

I like having drill aquifer the most with this SP. Comes in handy for my forest-heavy terraforming to add some river squares.

lord of the mark · June 4, 2003, 09:11

ok so if im playing as Zakharov, with fast research, is WP still a priority??? Shouldnt Virtual world, which makes my ubiquitous network nodes useful for the drones who are a problem for me, be better early wonder (oops, I mean SP)

Jac de Molay · June 4, 2003, 09:24

As a fellow rookie, the answer is a resounding NO

.

Get the WP by any means necessary. If you're playing as Zakharov, you're already fast-tracking to planetary networks because you have the prerequisite tech to start the game with. This should give you the luxury of a little time to address the virtual world a little later.

Flare · June 4, 2003, 10:13

Go for the WP *FIRST*, then the Virtual World. You should have crawlers by then, & if you play your cards right, you should be able to snag both while everybody else is trying to just get one of them.

Method · June 4, 2003, 15:21

Quote:

Originally posted by gwillybj
The documentation is correct in that Remove Fungus is not speeded.

yes, but it is with the Xenoempathy Dome IIRC.

CEO Aaron · June 4, 2003, 18:22

It is NEVER EVER EVER too soon to get the Weather Paradigm. If I had to pick just one SP to build, this would be the one.

Rubin · June 4, 2003, 21:37

Since the documentation is omitting some of the bonuses of the Weather Paradigm, I'm curious if there are bonuses hidden in some of the other Secret Projects

I may have missed some...

Ehh, is plant fungus speeded with the Weather Paradigm?

gwillybj · June 5, 2003, 05:03

TKG: Yes, the rate to remove/plant fungus is doubled with The Xenoempathy Dome. This halves the turns required (different from The Weather Paradigm's 50% increase, or 2/3 time).

Rubin: Per the above, no. You still need Ecological Engineering to plant fungus and The Xenoempathy Dome to speed it.

This brings to mind Super Former and Fungicide Tanks. Super Former doubles the rate (half the turns) for everything except fungus removal. Fungicide Tanks double the rate (half the turns) for only fungus removal. This still leaves out the Plant Fungus rate. Does someone know if Super Former doubles that?

BTW, these are all cumulative. WP+XD+Super+Fungicide makes almost every action take only one turn, so, for example, you can have a Former in a rocky fungus square remove the fungus in one turn, grade a road in the second turn, and blast a mine in the third, all of which would take a single unenhanced Former 17 turns

!

Adalbertus · June 5, 2003, 14:11

It's never too early for the WP.
My usual build order (playing transcend single player on a huge map) is to found nine bases to stop before the first bureaucracy warning. The build order usually is Former-Scout Patrol-Colony Pod - Rec Tank - Colony Pod (of course only 7 Pods altogether). After that, the first five bases start on SP's, the others some military units (preferably Probes) to hurry SP construction (usually, in blind research, I don't have IA at that point). With that, I try to snatch the first five SP's (WP, ME, HGP, VW, CN). Usually I get at least four of them, and the last one is changed to something else (EG, PTS ...)

IIRC, there is a late-game tech which allows to use fungus as road even if you don't have the Xenoempathy Dome.

Lazerus · June 7, 2003, 08:18

The WP is also a sheer god send for factions with high support like the Hive

1 police unit per base and then 3 formers working 50% faster, you can literally reshape the land with your hands. I'll have that area filled with roads,forests and boreholes spaced as close together as possible within 10 turns please. GREAT FUN

Mongoose · June 7, 2003, 10:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Rubin
Since the documentation is omitting some of the bonuses of the Weather Paradigm, I'm curious if there are bonuses hidden in some of the other Secret Projects

I may have missed some...

Ehh, is plant fungus speeded with the Weather Paradigm?

For one, your units can heal completely in fungus if you have the Xenodome.

Kaptain Ken · June 7, 2003, 11:17

Builders, of which I am one, love the WP and always try to get it as soon as possible. Lots of good advice and info in this thread. Good job everybody.

Jac de Molay · June 7, 2003, 12:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Mongoose

For one, your units can heal completely in fungus if you have the Xenodome.

All units or just native life?

Ogie Oglethorpe · June 7, 2003, 12:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Mongoose

For one, your units can heal completely in fungus if you have the Xenodome.

Mong,

Are you sure I always thought that was for Pholus Mutagen.