Imran and I were having a discussion about Sosa and then we got into a debate about what makes teams more hated - winning or money. So, which do you think makes a team more hated?
Here is a transcript, by the way....
[21:39] Apoc: heya, hear about Sosa?
[21:39] Imran: Yep... corked

[21:40] Apoc: I'm happy, I never liked the Cubs
[21:40] Imran: It won't matter anyway
[21:40] Apoc: I always felt sorry for the White Sox
[21:41] Imran: Eh... they bring lack of success upon themselves

[21:41] Apoc: it's just that the Sox have done better than the Cubs yet get little fan support
[21:41] Apoc: and everyone in Indiana also likes the Cubs, but not the Sox
[21:42] Imran: Because the Sox haven't embraced Chicago... or did so too late
[21:42] Imran: After all, the Cubs have been bigger winners... even though they haven't won since 1908

[21:42] Apoc: Chicago needs to be more like Houston...if you do well, you get support...if you don't do well, you don't get support
[21:42] Imran: Naw... ya gotta love the Cubbies!
[21:43] Imran: I love the Cubbies, and I've never been to Chicago

[21:43] Apoc: I never liked them
[21:43] Imran: Yes, I realized.. you are wierd

[21:43] Imran: It's the same reason you have to like the Red Sox!
[21:43] Apoc: even when I lived in the Dallas area and didn't care at all about the NL
[21:44] Apoc: the reason you are supposed to like the Red Sox is because you are supposed to hate the Yankees
[21:45] Imran: No.. because they, like the Cubs, haven't won in so long
[21:45] Apoc: well....
[21:45] Apoc: the Rangers, Astros, and Mariners have never won the big game
[21:45] Imran: Yeah, but they were founded well after 1908 or 1912

[21:46] Apoc: yeah, but they don't even have a title while the other teams do
[21:46] Imran: When they get close to the 100 year mark, you'll see people pulling for them too

[21:46] Imran: Because they are new... who cares about them
[21:47] Imran: In 1993, more people wanted the New York Rangers to win, because they hadn't since 1940... even if Vancouver had never won one either.
[21:47] Apoc: well, that's rude
[21:48] Imran: No it isn't!
[21:48] Apoc: yeah it is
[21:48] Imran: It's rude to root for a team that has much fewer years and hasn't won than one that has won but 80 years ago!
[21:49] Imran: Wow... you haven't won in 30 years... the fans in Chicago have been struggling for almost a 100!
[21:49] Apoc: when the Cubs won back at the turn of the century, they weren't as old as the Rangers and Astros are now
[21:49] Imran: Yeah, and they weren't as beloved as they are now
[21:49] Imran: If they kept winning people would hate them (as they do the Yankees)
[21:49] Apoc: doesn't really matter anyway
[21:50] Apoc: people hate the Yankees because of the money they have
[21:50] Imran: Well, when the Cubs win, or the BoSox, it'll be a big party
[21:50] Imran: Oh, Apoc... so naive

[21:50] Imran: People hate teams that constantly win
[21:50] Imran: In every sport
[21:50] Apoc: people don't hate Tiger Woods
[21:51] Imran: He's not a team

[21:51] Imran: He doesn't come from an area
[21:51] Apoc: what about the Miami Dolphins...they're good every year
[21:51] Imran: NO THEY AREN'T!
[21:51] Imran: They've missed the playoffs for like two years going
[21:51] Apoc: barely missed the playoffs
[21:51] Imran: When the Rams were good, people hated them... still do
[21:52] Imran: Barely?! They still missed... you aren't a good team in the NFL if you don't make the Playoffs
[21:52] Imran: When the Bulls won a bunch in the 90s, people hated them
[21:52] Apoc: they missed largely because Jay was injured
[21:52] Apoc: I didn't notice any hate...I remember people buying a lot of Bulls clothing
[21:52] Imran: Yeah.. but they wouldn't have got sniffing distance of the SuperBowl because they ain't that good
[21:52] Apoc: not just Jordon stuf either
[21:53] Imran: A lot of people hated them too...
[21:53] Imran: You do realize that Yankees clothing is the most selling baseball stuff, right?
[21:53] Apoc: New York is also very large and many people move to various places from New York
[21:53] Imran: Doesn't matter... when you win, you become loved and hated.
[21:53] Imran: Another example: early 90s cowboys
[21:54] Apoc: early 90s Cowboys - America's Team
[21:54] Imran: And America's Most HATED Team
[21:54] Imran: I actually don't remember anyone outside Texas that liked them during those years.
[21:54] Imran: (well, ok a slight exaggeration, but only slight)
[21:56] Apoc: that was before the salary cap went into full effect anyway
[21:56] Apoc: so it was partially the money
[21:56] Imran: So? Doesn't matter
[21:56] Imran: NOOOOO
[21:56] Imran: San Fran had way more money
[21:56] Apoc: and people didn't like San Fran either
[21:57] Imran: They were more liked than the Cowboys... by far
[21:57] Imran: Hell, in Jersey, you'd see people wearing 49ers jerseys\
[21:57] Apoc: they are also from California and people think California is cool
[21:57] Imran: Bull... people despised the Cowboys (still do)
[21:58] Imran: I personally can't stand them and love when they lose.. HAHAH
[21:58] Apoc: I don't like them either
[21:58] Apoc: but that's also largely because of the owner
[21:58] Imran: And their players
[21:58] Imran: Irvin - *****, Aikman - ass, Smith - moron
[21:59] Apoc: yeah, but many of the players were liked...Irvin got TV deals
[21:59] Apoc: and Smith is a nice guy and many people like him for that
[21:59] Imran: Irvin was hated... remember when they booed him in Philly? Crack hore
[21:59] Apoc: yes, I know he was booed
[21:59] Imran: Smith benefited from the best line in the NFL ever... he didn't have half the talent that Barry Sandars had
[22:02] Apoc: you are changing the subject
[22:02] Imran: No I'm not
[22:02] Imran: I'm showing you that money means ****
[22:02] Imran: People hate the teams that win a lot
[22:02] Apoc: I know it doesn't mean much in terms of talent
[22:02] Apoc: why don't people like the LA Dodgers then?
[22:02] Apoc: hmmm?
[22:03] Imran: Who doesn't like the Dodgers?
[22:03] Imran: Never heard of that
[22:03] Apoc: a lot of people
[22:03] Imran: I've yet to meet one person that doesn't like the Orioles
[22:03] Apoc: the Orioles are different though
[22:03] Imran: No they aren't
[22:03] Apoc: they compete against the Yankees
[22:03] Imran: Bullshit... if compete means lose
[22:04] Apoc: I'm just saying they are the lesser of two evils
[22:04] Apoc: LA signed Kevin Brown
[22:04] Imran: LA isn't hated except by Giant fans
[22:04] Apoc: and and Brown wasn't even that good
[22:04] Imran: Yeah, and? Their payroll now isn't that high if you look at the stats
[22:04] Apoc: they aren't hated as much now
[22:04] Imran: The Yankees, then Boston, then the Mets, then Baltimore and few other teams
[22:04] Imran: Oh, they were never hated
[22:05] Apoc: doesn't really matter
[22:05] Apoc: this isn't going anywhere
[22:07] Apoc: [22:05] Apoc: hey, I'm having conversation with another baseball fan at the moment
[22:05] Apoc: we are arguing about which makes a team more hated - money or winning
[22:07] cubsfan: definetely money! look at the yankees, they are hated cuz they bought all their player, tey are spending exhobitent amounts of money, infact the are the only team that has to pay the luxury tax this year, if the cubs kept wining i'd doubt there would be much hatred
[22:07] Apoc: LA Dodgers have been hated in the past, right?
[22:07] cubsfan: yeah and still are
[22:08] Imran: He's totally wrong
[22:08] Imran: No one hates the Dogers
[22:08] Imran: They may have in the 80s... when they WON
[22:08] Apoc: he hates them and he's a Cubbie fan
[22:08] Imran: Good for him
[22:09] Imran: I hate the Rockies, what does that prove?
[22:09] Apoc: maybe they don't hate them in the east coast where you are because hatred there is all focused on Yankees and Braves
[22:09] Imran: And the Braves are hated cause they win... not because they spend a lot

[22:09] Apoc: many would guess you hate the Rockies because Colorado is an insane place to play baseball
[22:10] Apoc: Braves rarely win the World Series
[22:10] Imran: That and I dislike some of their players
[22:10] Imran: But they've always won their division
[22:10] Imran: Allways in the playoffs
[22:10] Apoc: and many of their first round wins have been against the Astros and the Astros such ass in the playoffs
[22:10] Apoc: *suck ass
[22:10] Imran: But they've done it
[22:10] Apoc: but it's the Astros
[22:10] Apoc: want to make a thread on Poly about this?
[22:11] Imran: You can if you want.
[22:11] Apoc: is it alright if I post this conversation?
[22:11] Imran: Sure...
[22:11] Apoc: I'm just saying this convo really isn't going anywhere
[22:12] Imran: Yeah... but if money dictated hate the Orioles would be hated as well. It isn't just based on money, it's on winning and where you are