PBS lies in an attempt to prove that race does not exist

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:08

In April of this year, PBS screened a show titled Race: The Power of an Illusion

In order to "prove" that race is merely a figment of our imagination, the argument is made that there is no single gene or small set of genes that are unique to any racial group. It is also stated that two members of the same race may differ from each other more at a specific gene locus than they do from someone of a different race. This is true, but it's also meaningless. It's like saying that your brother is not really your brother because his eyes are not the same color as yours. You might as well argue that family is an illusion. Of course, the program fails to mention that when enough genes are considered, race becomes undeniably real. The idea that a race must be characterized by specific genes that are found only in that race and in no other is a straw man put up by those who wish to knock it down for political reasons.

The main event on the program is a misrepresented DNA test. A group of students of different races are tested for similarities between their mitochondrial DNA, and it is found that there are more similarities between the mitochondrial DNA of students of different races than those of the same. What the program fails to mention, however, is that mitochondrial DNA is completely useless in determining race at the individual level, or for comparing the racial ancestry of one individual to another. This type of DNA is inherited exclusively from the mother, so if you are black, and there was someone white on your mother's side of the family tree at some point, your mitchondrial DNA will be 'white'. To tout this kind of DNA test as some kind of proof of the non-existence of race is outright deception.

Asher · June 4, 2003, 22:09

I've been to a race in person, so I know for certain that they exist.

Imran Siddiqui · June 4, 2003, 22:12

Yeah, what are all those Olympic medals for!

GePap · June 4, 2003, 22:12

at caligastia.

Man, give this little pet peeve of your up. For some reason, you deeply care to continue to believe in the notion of race. Well, many people find it either a myth or irrelevant. You will convince no one, and no one will convince you.

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:15

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

at caligastia.

Man, give this little pet peeve of your up. For some reason, you deeply care to continue to believe in the notion of race. Well, many people find it either a myth or irrelevant. You will convince no one, and no one will convince you.

I show you the truth - that your side is lying, and yet you continue to believe. You should join a cult or something.

St Leo · June 4, 2003, 22:15

It's like saying that your brother is not really your brother because his eyes are not the same color as yours.

It is in no way like it. You have more similarities DNA-wise with your brother than you have with Jane Random Stranger.

The argument against race is not purely genetic and the mitochondrial study isn't the only genetic one that has been done.

MrFun · June 4, 2003, 22:17

Race is a socially constructed concept.

chequita guevara · June 4, 2003, 22:18

Give it up, already. It's not just mitochondrial DNA that gives you a proble. Regular DNA doesn't show enough of a difference between "races" to justify their existence biologically.

MRT144 · June 4, 2003, 22:18

im actually black

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:19

Quote:

Originally posted by St Leo
It's like saying that your brother is not really your brother because his eyes are not the same color as yours.

It is in no way like it. You have more similarities DNA-wise with your brother than you have with Jane Random Stranger.

erm..that's exactly my point. You have to consider more than just a small trait of DNA.

Quote:

The argument against race is not purely genetic and the mitochondrial study isn't the only genetic one that has been done.

So you admit that the producers of this show intentionally tried to decieve the audience by using the mitchondrial DNA test?

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:22

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Give it up, already. It's not just mitochondrial DNA that gives you a proble.

That's my whole point. The mitochondrial 'problem' is merely a deception.

Quote:

Regular DNA doesn't show enough of a difference between "races" to justify their existence biologically.

Actually it does. Autosomal nuclear DNA codes for racially relevant traits.

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:23

Quote:

Originally posted by MRT144
im actually black

Congratulations.

GePap · June 4, 2003, 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Caligastia
Actually it does. Autosomal nuclear DNA codes for racially relevant traits.

You mean like skin color, as one of those types? You mean a trait that is mainly influenced by environment?

If race trully existed, an isolated "white" population placed in a tropical climate should stay white. BUt hey won;t.

just think how a group of black people from Africa ended up being every single human population outside of Africa, in only 100,000 yeras or less.

MRT144 · June 4, 2003, 22:28

im coming to get you sucka

Spiffor · June 4, 2003, 22:29

I think you are the third one of the forum

notyoueither · June 4, 2003, 22:33

Why is there a problem acknowledging that there are genetic differences between members of different groups? They are extremely minor differences in all areas where it counts, but they are there none the less.

They can be significant medically though. Isn't it better to know what they are so that people can get better screening/treatment for potential problems?

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

You mean like skin color, as one of those types? You mean a trait that is mainly influenced by environment?

Yeah, all those black people just happened to get more sun than everyone else in their lifetime.

Nothing to do with their parents being black.

Quote:

If race trully existed, an isolated "white" population placed in a tropical climate should stay white. BUt hey won;t.

How strange that white South Africans still exist. I guess they just have really good sunblock.

Quote:

just think how a group of black people from Africa ended up being every single human population outside of Africa, in only 100,000 yeras or less.

This is far from being proven fact. It's merely the latest guess at human origins.

MRT144 · June 4, 2003, 22:33

no no spiffor, it was a joke. if race is a socially constructed concept then i am in fact black and not white as my skin would lead to you to believe.

i fashion myself as "superfly tnt dolemite".

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:36

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why is there a problem acknowledging that there are genetic differences between members of different groups?

Because then communists and socialists would have to admit that inequality is due to more than environment, which would completely undermine their whole ideology.

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:37

Quote:

Originally posted by MRT144
no no spiffor, it was a joke. if race is a socially constructed concept then i am in fact black and not white as my skin would lead to you to believe.

Yeah, I'm sick of these crackers trying to deny me my african-american heritage.

GePap · June 4, 2003, 22:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Caligastia

Yeah, all those black people just happened to get more sun than everyone else in their lifetime.

Nothing to do with their parents being black.

And thier parents are black becuase? and their parent's parents. If you trully believe there is some sort of "sub-species" of man that just happens to be black, well, then you are trully hopelss.

Quote:

How strange that white South Africans still exist. I guess they just have really good sunblock.

Hmm, i wonder how somoene can claim to be able to argue sucessfully about DNA and still miss the fact that 300 years is not a very significant span of time to bring about significant genetic variance.

Quote:

This is far from being proven fact. It's merely the latest guess at human origins.

Actually, the "out of Africa" theory has far better evidence than any other theory of houman origin. But the fact you do not want to engae it tells me much about were you come from: and I feel no inclination to continue debating with such a person on this one topic.

notyoueither · June 4, 2003, 22:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Caligastia

Because then communists and socialists would have to admit that inequality is due to more than environment, which would completely undermine their whole ideology.

Isn't it more to do with opportunity, or lack thereof? Or is being black a feature of some impoverishing gene?

Caligastia · June 4, 2003, 22:44

GePap you poor fool. Instead of trying to derail the original topic, why don't you try explaining why race deniers deliberately decieve in their attempts to prove their claims.

Kidicious · June 4, 2003, 22:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Caligastia
Because then communists and socialists would have to admit that inequality is due to more than environment, which would completely undermine their whole ideology.

Communism is the only ideology that promotes equality? I don't think so. It's only the right wing fanatics who demand that one race is superior.

MRT144 · June 4, 2003, 22:51

caligsta, we need to go burn some honkey lip crackers some time.

ranskaldan · June 4, 2003, 22:52

If there isn't any race, why can't I pretend to be black?

Tuberski · June 4, 2003, 22:52

I guess somebody should go and start the "abortion" and "Death penalty" threads.

Might as well have all the useless argument threads going at the same time.

ACK!

MRT144 · June 4, 2003, 22:56

Quote:

Originally posted by ranskaldan
If there isn't any race, why can't I pretend to be black?

its the white man holding you down brotha

GePap · June 4, 2003, 22:59

Quote:

Originally posted by ranskaldan
If there isn't any race, why can't I pretend to be black?

God, what an annoyingly stupid argument!

Human populations slowly adapt to the environment. If a population stays in the same place for millenia, it will adapt to that area. But most changes are only skin deep. Deeper changes are answer to different microscopic environments, which in general are very closely tied to the general environment.

If what you mean by race are shallow and temporary (obviosuly not in the time span of individual, who are generally meaningless) characteristics designed to make you more successful in you current environment? Then yes, under this definition race exists. If you believe race to be anything more than this, well, then no, that type of race does not exist.

Spiffor · June 4, 2003, 23:00

Abortion is good

Death Penalty sucks

Oh, and for the record : Gun Control rules